Notre-Dame cathedral Paris is on fire

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Tis_Bearself said:
Seeing some photos of the interior now. I realize there are structural integrity concerns, but it honestly doesn’t look that bad in there. The altar cross was still standing.
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Bear in mind (see what I did there? 😃 ) that the altar cross, the candles, etc. are all at ground level, while the fire was all on the roof, which is several hundred feet (don’t know the exact number) overhead, and the heat was going up, not down.

D
 
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UpUpAndAway said:
You would be correct. The planned renovation was expected to take 20 years so rebuilding on this scale will surely take much longer than that.
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Not necessarily. The original renovations were attempting to restore existing construction, and working around a building in use, being visited by thousands upon thousands of people daily.

That sort of work takes a lot longer than rebuilding a structure that no longer exists, without a constant flow of people limiting what you can do at any given time.

It will still take a while, but if the structure is sound there’s a good chance it can be done within fifteen years. There will probably be two years of redesigns, maybe a bit more, then final approval from the diocese and various public agencies, then the actual work, which is not insubstantial. Honestly, if this were America, I’d expect it to be done in around a decade, possibly less if they really buckle down and get the funding they need. As it is in France, and I am unfamiliar with their construction habits, I can’t really give a good estimate.
 
You know, I hadn’t thought about that.

In general these sorts of things do take longer in France than in the US, but even so the original 20-year estimate might just be feasible.
 
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UpUpAndAway said:
the original 20-year estimate might just be feasible.
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I really hope it is, and that this doesn’t becomes another 100 year construction project. I’d really like to see it again.

The other question is, are they still going to allow the public in during reconstruction?

The majority of the structure survived, and they will undoubtedly install a temporary roof to further protect it. That means that the interior, once cleaned and deemed safe, will be usable. I imagine the dioceses will continue holding mass, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they still allow tourism activities, if only to help fund the reconstruction. If they do, then the human presence will definitely slow down construction.

Honestly, a lot of me hopes they don’t let the public in. It stinks, because I was hoping to go to Europe and see it again, but if I am unable then so be it. If that’s the difference between a twenty year schedule and a ten year schedule, I think that both the Catholic world, and the world of Architecture and history, would prefer it to remain closed for the duration.

Still, I might be totally off. It would be dangerous to build while people are inside, so perhaps there is a good chance of it remaining closed. As I said before, it is way easier to build something new than repair something existing. It is a lot of roof, but not a lot of roof, so part of me doesn’t think the construction should take that long… Given the building’s status in French society, they may even put in some overtime to see her rebuilt.

Only time will tell. Hopefully she’s not closed down for too long.
 
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You’re right, but that big flaming spire did collapse downward into the middle of the Church. I would presume it hit more or less in the middle and perhaps spared the stuff on the ends.

I am sure they will let people back in as soon as it is safe to do so. La Sagrada Familia is under ongoing construction and has people in at least part of it all day every day. It helps keep people engaged and encourages donations, plus this is a huge tourist draw. I definitely would not miss the chance to see it under major reconstruction, this is an opportunity that (hopefully) won’t happen again for hundreds of years.
 
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The properties of the Church were seized by the government during the French revolution. The Concordat signed between the Pope and Napolean did not restore Cathedrals, parish churches, etc but made it law that they were to be left to the Church for use. This was in effect until the early 1905:

en.wikipedia.org

1905 French law on the Separation of the Churches and the State - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Not by any means an expert in this law, but I think the government is not free to do with it as they please.
 
Well, I’m already seeing people complaining that the Catholic Church is richer than Croesus and that if we want to donate to a church we should donate instead to (insert name of church in some impoverished part of local city) and not Notre Dame. It’s rather a relief to be able to say that the Catholic Church doesn’t own Notre Dame and isn’t going to be footing the bill for the repairs, the French government is instead responsible for over 100 years now.

I fear that if this property was owned by the Church, they would decide for cost reasons to not rebuild it or erect something super modern and cheaper in its place.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I fear that if this property was owned by the Church, they would decide for cost reasons to not rebuild it
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Without wishing to sound sarcastic, what is the comparison between (a) indemnities paid to victims of clerical sex abuse and (b) the cost of restoring Notre Dame?
 
Pretty sure the public outcry would be huge if someone suggested using Notre Dame as anything other than a catholic cathedral though.
 
I am by no means an expert in French law, but my understanding is that although the government owns all Churches built before 1905, the Catholic Church leases them and this lease is in perpetuity. They are solely to be used by the Catholic Church, by law.
 
goout said:
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UpUpAndAway:
The government allows the Church to function in Notre-Dame and has shown no signs of revoking that permission.
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It won’t be long…
This not just an observation directed at the French government, but towards the relationship between Church and state generally.
In the US it won’t be long either.
The tax exemption will disappear (probly a good thing anyway)
Church buildings will be mandated for use against the faith.
Catholic institutions will be forced to do things and use facilities for antithetical purposes.
Resistors (like bishops or individual parish pastors) will be punished, first with things like fines, then with imprisonment.

It’s only a matter of time. Evil is not really interested in tolerance. Lip service to tolerance is the door to absolute intolerance. It’s in the Church’s blood to be persecuted by the evil that roams the world.
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I would be REALLY leery of applying contemporary American politics to European countries.
 
So true, although we like to think of the Europeans as very liberal politically, they often don’t get caught up in much of the silliness we Americans do.
 
CCHcolonel said:
50 years or more from now when Christians are even more of a minority in Europe and the new immigrants want a larger place of worship? Who knows.
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Who knows if we’re even going to live to see tomorrow? And I am pretty sure in 50 years I won’t be here to worry about cathedrals on earth. If I’m lucky I’ll be worshipping in Notre Dame of Heaven.
 
With the history of the United States and its citizens. If that does happen here don’t be surprised if you see a second Revolution/Civil War depending on the outcome.
 
That is something that’s always bothered me. A lot of people assume the Catholic Church or Vatican is rich. Everything I’ve ever read since it has the budget of a medium sized city and is usually in the red a lot of the times. Also a lot of people assume the Vatican owns everything. My understanding is the Vatican owns very little property, most Catholic Churches are owned by the Diocese or the Parish itself, that is the way it was explained to me. The other thing that always got on my nerves was people that would say well they should sell all the art and other things that are in the museum and use flto help others. The Vatican does not own that stuff, it belongs to the Catholic faithful and Christians of all Faith’s really. It is a part of all Christianity. The Vatican safe keeps it. To me it would be the same as the United States Gov’t deciding to sell/auction off the Bill or Rights, Declaration of Independence, the portrait of George Washington that Mrs Madison saved from the White House fire. I would be pissed and so would a lot of other Americans just like I would be pissed of the Vatican decided to sell off the Pita and other works of art. People just don’t understand that. That is why when someone says something like that to me I try to explain the truth about it, even on Social media. Of course on TV, you cant really do that.
 
The French government should turn all church properties back over to the church that orginally belonged too. This is not the government of the French Revolution anymore. Just my thought no offense to anyone who feels differently.
 
Yes, I did not know that when I posted the comment, lol. I was surprised to learn how the French government own all Church properties.
 
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