Notre Dame presses charges against pro life protestors

  • Thread starter Thread starter Teelynn
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I realize you are angry. As am I. BUT the way I understand the very confusing rules regarding behavior, I don’t believe the “Vatican/Pope” has jurisdiction over a University in the US, or anywhere else. That would be up to the Bishop whose diocese it is in. So don’t blame the Vatican for something it is not directly responsible for.

And I DON’T see the Vatican bending over backward to keep Obama happy. The leaders of the Catholic Church, due to their own lack of diligence, are walking a very find rope here. It is one of make, or break. The Church has already been divided through the actions of some of the hierarchy here in the U.S. Some are even speaking of the “American Catholic Church” little realizing that it is built on sand.

It will take many more, the likes of, Finn, Martino, Burke, Hermann, Chaput and others to take us back to Rome.
The Vatican has made some strange noises about Obama’s Cairo speech, despite its shallowness. But I agree that the American Church is divided, and another reason the Vatican won’t do anything is that so many influential American laymen are terry much on the same page as the rest of our national elite. The academics did not get even a hint of a papal scolding last summer, and Notre Dame’s open defiance suggests that they know they are in the catbird seat. They have the liberals and the careerists in the Church, both here and in Rome , on their side.
 
Typical. Of skewed thought processes anyway. Please reexamine your reasoning. Who was being smeared here and by whom? And who was allowing it? You have really twisted your thinking. Anti-Notre Dame?? If your mind wasn’t being so obscured by releativsim (the let’s be fair doctrine of the pro aborts) you would see the protesters were ENRAGED not by Our Lady, but what was being done to her by one of the most radical pro abortion candidates and his minions at Nortre Dame the world has ever seen. Get it straight
Now let’s compare your response to my post to another response to my post by a sane person:
FYI, the protesters who were arrested in Randall Terry’s and Alan Keyes’ group announced that they would trespass on Notre Dame’s campus and sought their own arrests. Yes, it is heart-wrenching to see a priest arrested on campus, but it’s not like NDSP (Notre Dame’s police force) ran out to get him. NDSP allowed the protesters to walk for probably 500 or so feet onto campus along Notre Dame Avenue, where they waited for them at the end. When the protesters arrived with their baby carriages, signs, etc., they were asked to leave quietly or told they would be placed under arrest for trespassing. Since this is what they wanted to do for publicity’s sake, they were arrested. Since they intended to be arrested, I’m puzzled as to why so many paint ND as the bad guy here.

Many, many other forms of ‘protest’ were opened up to those who disagreed with honoring Obama–speakers were invited (such as Bill McGurn, ND alum and former speechwriter to President Bush) who spoke against the invitation and elaborated on what it meant for ND and for Catholicism in America. ND Response led a rally for life on Palm Sunday, to which outsiders were invited to participate on campus–no arrests were made there, either. Randall Terry’s techniques throughout this whole ordeal were designed to attract maximum press coverage–but they don’t necessarily reflect the reality of everything that went on at Notre Dame. It’s not as if a whole university stood idly by, and the only ones leading the cause of truth were Randall Terry, Alan Keyes, and a few others who managed to get themselves arrested. THEIR actions distract from all of the real good that happened, even amidst the bad.
 
The Holy See is not going to do anything. The Vatican is too busy bending over backwards to make Obama happy.
Wow. The “liberal conspiracy” is so deep that they don’t just control the media but they also control the Vatican?
 
I’m not sure, but I believe it was misdemeanor trespassing. Sorta like misdemeanor retail theft – they will prosecute a person for that, too.

Rough treatment? Let’s be real – the protesters went to the campus for the purpose of being arrested. That’s what they said ahead of time. The result was not ‘rough treatment’, in my book.
The law Ha! The law is so corrupt it’s not funny. 😦
The law can be twisted and generally is, providing you have a good lawyer 😊
The only law that has not, can not and never will be twisted is Gods law. 👍
And that’s what the protesters where representing. God’s Law. Life against Death :dts:
 
Now let’s compare your response to my post to another response to my post by a sane person:
And, I just don’t see your point. The protestors were NOT protesting Our Lady, ie. the Mother of God. They were protesting an institution that claimed it represented her. What am I missing here, or am I talking to the wrong poster. Did you not say the protestors were defaming Our Lady by taking the stance they were taking.

Are you making an inference here? Sane?:tsktsk:
 
RobbyS;5323509[COLOR=“Red” said:
]
The Vatican has made some strange noises about Obama’s Cairo speech, despite its shallowness

. Would you give a source? Thanks. But I agree that the American Church is divided, and another reason the Vatican won’t do anything is that so many influential American laymen are terry much on the same page as the rest of our national elite. The academics did not get even a hint of a papal scolding last summer, and Notre Dame’s open defiance suggests that they know they are in the catbird seat. They have the liberals and the careerists in the Church, both here and in Rome , on their side.

There are many things that appear odd “to me” regarding the Vatican’s stand on many issues such as the scandal at NDU and the soft handling of Catholic Pro Abortion politicians here in the U.S.

I do know, however, that Pope Benedict XVI has had much communication with the US Bishops regarding these issues, especially the allowing of Communion to Catholic pro abort pols. He has sent letter/s (don’t know how many) to the US Bishops upholding Canon law regarding prohibiting Communion to these people. With the exception of a very few, the Bishops have ignored him. Even Archbishop Dolan?, the new guy in New York, who is supposedly strongly anti abortion, refuses to follow the Pope’s guidlines in this.

Life Site News reported this in May of 2007. This is incomplete, so to see the rest of the article go to Life Site News.

lifenews.com/int278.html

by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
May 9, 2007

The Vatican (LifeNews.com) – The Catholic Church has made it clear in the past that it strongly opposes abortion and wants pro-abortion politicians to rethink their views or consider refraining from taking communion. Pope Benedict XVI stepped up those warnings Wednesday saying pro-abortion politicians have excommunicated themselves.
He also said the elected officials who support abortion would be prevented from receiving communion.

There may be more, but the names I remember who are following Canon law in regard to this are Finn, Martino, Burke, Herman and possibly Chaput. Bishop Herman has been reassigned I believe. The new Bishop? Name? says he will first advise, then decide on a personal basis. The law is advise first, expect conversion and if that doesn’t happen, excommunicate publically.
 
And, I just don’t see your point. The protestors were NOT protesting Our Lady, ie. the Mother of God. They were protesting an institution that claimed it represented her. What am I missing here, or am I talking to the wrong poster. Did you not say the protestors were defaming Our Lady by taking the stance they were taking.

Are you making an inference here? Sane?:tsktsk:
They were actually arrested while walking along praying the rosary led by a couple of people holding a large picture of Our Lady. Apparently Notre Dame is embarrassed by the pro-life movement and would like to distance itself from it. Here’s further evidence.
**How Notre Dame Thwarted Pro-Life Film **
Jack Cashill
May 7, 2009
About six months ago, veteran pro-life activist Steve Sanborn approached me about documenting the annual March For Life in Washington, D.C.
. . .
We wanted a college group as well. Sanborn had contacts at Notre Dame University, and they too seemed eager to participate. Given Notre Dame’s status as the iconic Catholic university, we all thought the university’s participation a good idea.
As the January 22 date approached, however, Sanborn started getting mixed signals out of Notre Dame. The administration was proving as unhelpful as his contacts had been helpful.
Just a week before the March, Deborah J. Gabaree, the university’s assistant vice president and counsel, sent us a “memorandum of understanding,” the intent of which seems clearer in these last few weeks. The memorandum included any number of terms that were simply impossible to meet, all of which served the ostensible purpose of protecting “the University’s character as a Catholic institution of higher learning.” These included a million dollar insurance policy “with a company acceptable to the University” and—the real deal killer—Notre Dame’s right to review in advance both the documentary itself and all of its marketing materials lest either “imply endorsement” by the university.
. . .
When I asked Sanborn whether the resistance was just routine boilerplate or active obstruction, he said obstruction. As far as he could tell, the Notre Dame administration did not want our camera on the bus. The reason seemed clear enough even then: the university had no interest in seeing its name publicly associated with something as unblushingly Christian as the March For Life.
Daddums 🙂
 
And, I just don’t see your point. The protestors were NOT protesting Our Lady, ie. the Mother of God. They were protesting an institution that claimed it represented her. What am I missing here, or am I talking to the wrong poster. Did you not say the protestors were defaming Our Lady by taking the stance they were taking.

Are you making an inference here? Sane?:tsktsk:
Yes, you completely missed my point. I was sticking up for the University of Notre Dame, a well-known and very prestigious Catholic University devoted in honor of Our Lady (Notre Dame is “Our Lady” in French).

Despite all the fanatics that lead you to believe that the world has gone to hell and that the Church is in ruins, that is not true. Do you see the Holy Father denouncing Notre Dame? Of course not.

Yes, the bishops in the US don’t like Catholic universities in their dioceses having high-profile Democrats come to their commencement ceremonies. That is not surprising, because the bishops don’t like dealing with all the hate from the psycho crowd who acts like a high-profile Democrat is actually an abortion doctor. These psychos are so fanatic that they will try to kill people. Don’t egg them on.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Yes, you completely missed my point. I was sticking up for the University of Notre Dame, a well-known and very prestigious Catholic University devoted in honor of Our Lady (Notre Dame is “Our Lady” in French).

Despite all the fanatics that lead you to believe that the world has gone to hell and that the Church is in ruins, that is not true. Do you see the Holy Father denouncing Notre Dame? Of course not.

Yes, the bishops in the US don’t like Catholic universities in their dioceses having high-profile Democrats come to their commencement ceremonies. That is not surprising, because the bishops don’t like dealing with all the hate from the psycho crowd who acts like a high-profile Democrat is actually an abortion doctor. These psychos are so fanatic that they will try to kill people. Don’t egg them on.

http://www.arrakeen.ch/usaaug98/074 Notre Dame University, South Bend, IN.jpg
So I suppose the reason Bishop D’Arcy didn’t attend the commencement ceremonies of this year’s 2009 graduates, but did attend the ceremonies elsewhere on Campus (the Grotto for instance) sponsered by the Pro Life students at ND was because he doesn’t like Democrats?
 
So I suppose the reason Bishop D’Arcy didn’t attend the commencement ceremonies of this year’s 2009 graduates, but did attend the ceremonies elsewhere on Campus (the Grotto for instance) sponsered by the Pro Life students at ND was because he doesn’t like Democrats?
Again:

Yes, the bishops in the US don’t like Catholic universities in their dioceses having high-profile Democrats come to their commencement ceremonies. That is not surprising, because the bishops don’t like dealing with all the hate from the psycho crowd who acts like a high-profile Democrat is actually an abortion doctor. These psychos are so fanatic that they will try to kill people. Don’t egg them on.

 
Again:

Yes, the bishops in the US don’t like Catholic universities in their dioceses having high-profile Democrats come to their commencement ceremonies. That is not surprising, because the bishops don’t like dealing with all the hate from the psycho crowd who acts like a high-profile Democrat is actually an abortion doctor. These psychos are so fanatic that they will try to kill people. Don’t egg them on.

University of Notre Dame
For decades the Roman Catholic Church here in the US has been a supporter of the Democratic Party, because of its thrust for Social Justice. In fact, I have heard, that unfortunately some of the misguided clergy here in the US voted for bo. Now how does that coincide with what you are saying?.
 
For decades the Roman Catholic Church here in the US has been a supporter of the Democratic Party, because of its thrust for Social Justice. In fact, I have heard, that unfortunately some of the misguided clergy here in the US voted for bo. Now how does that coincide with what you are saying?.
the Democrat/Republican split of the Catholic vote in elections
50/47 – 2000 Al Gore
52/47 – 2004 George W. Bush
54/45 – 2008 Barack Obama
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism_and_American_politics

For what the Vatican teaches on how Catholics should vote in a democratic society, see:

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
DOCTRINAL NOTE
on some questions regarding
The Participation of Catholics in Political Life
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20021124_politica_en.html
*
…fundamental teaching of the Second Vatican Council is that «the lay faithful are never to relinquish their participation in ‘public life’, that is, in the many different economic, social, legislative, administrative and cultural areas, which are intended to promote organically and institutionally the common good».[10]** This would include the promotion and defence of goods such as public order and peace, freedom and equality, respect for human life and for the environment, justice and solidarity**.

relativism, of course, has nothing to do with the legitimate freedom of Catholic citizens to choose among the various political opinions that are compatible with faith and the natural moral law, and to select, according to their own criteria, what best corresponds to the needs of the common good. Political freedom is not – and cannot be – based upon the relativistic idea that all conceptions of the human person’s good have the same value and truth, but rather, on the fact that politics are concerned with very concrete realizations of the true human and social good in given historical, geographic, economic, technological and cultural contexts. From the specificity of the task at hand and the variety of circumstances, a plurality of morally acceptable policies and solutions arises. It is not the Church’s task to set forth specific political solutions – and even less to propose a single solution as the acceptable one

The Christian faith is an integral unity, and thus it is incoherent to isolate some particular element to the detriment of the whole of Catholic doctrine. A political commitment to a single isolated aspect of the Church’s social doctrine does not exhaust one’s responsibility towards the common good.

When political activity comes up against moral principles that do not admit of exception, compromise or derogation, the Catholic commitment becomes more evident and laden with responsibility. In the face of fundamental and inalienable ethical demands, Christians must recognize that what is at stake is the essence of the moral law, which concerns the integral good of the human person. This is the case with laws concerning abortion and euthanasia (not to be confused with the decision to forgo extraordinary treatments, which is morally legitimate). Such laws must defend the basic right to life from conception to natural death. In the same way, it is necessary to recall the duty to respect and protect the rights of the human embryo. Analogously, the family needs to be safeguarded and promoted, based on monogamous marriage between a man and a woman, and protected in its unity and stability in the face of modern laws on divorce: in no way can other forms of cohabitation be placed on the same level as marriage, nor can they receive legal recognition as such. The same is true for the freedom of parents regarding the education of their children; it is an inalienable right recognized also by the Universal Declaration on Human Rights. In the same way, one must consider society’s** protection of minors and freedom from modern forms of slavery** (drug abuse and prostitution, for example). In addition, there is** the right to religious freedom **and the development of an economy that is at the service of the human person and of the common good, with respect for social justice, the principles of human solidarity and subsidiarity, according to which «the rights of all individuals, families, and organizations and their practical implementation must be acknowledged».[21] Finally, the question of **peace **must be mentioned. Certain pacifistic and ideological visions tend at times to secularize the value of peace, while, in other cases, there is the problem of summary ethical judgments which forget the complexity of the issues involved. Peace is always «the work of justice and the effect of charity».[22] It demands the absolute and radical rejection of violence and terrorism and requires a constant and vigilant commitment on the part of all political leaders.

*
 
The law Ha! The law is so corrupt it’s not funny.
Easily said. For instance?
The law can be twisted and generally is, providing you have a good lawyer
Easily said. For instance?
And that’s what the protesters where representing. God’s Law. Life against Death
That’s what bombers and terroristic killers believe, and I’m not calling the protesters terrorists. The fact is, when you get some folks wrapped up into thinking they are representing 'God’s law" its a prescription for disaster. It is not their place to break the laws. God represents God’s laws.
 
Yes, the bishops in the US don’t like Catholic universities in their dioceses having high-profile Democrats come to their commencement ceremonies. That is not surprising, because the bishops don’t like dealing with all the hate from the psycho crowd who acts like a high-profile Democrat is actually an abortion doctor. These psychos are so fanatic that they will try to kill people. Don’t egg them on.
Apparently, you don’t mind calling peaceful pro-life Catholics “fanatics” and “psychos” who “try to kill people”.

Perhaps you’re stirring up hatred against pro-life students so that someone will kill them.

As for other “fanatics”, you’re probably talking about Archbishop Burke also:
Burke: We all have witnessed the compromise and, indeed, betrayal of the Catholic identity of Notre Dame University. Thoughtful Catholics cannot help but reflect upon the great danger for a Catholic institution in pursuing a kind of prestige in the secular world, which leads to a betrayal of the sacred aspect of its work, namely the fidelity to Christ and His teaching. So I think everybody now realizes the gravity of the situation. Also I believe that the whole situation has sensitized more people with regard to the gravity of the practice of procured abortion in our nation, that is, they realize even more how far we have gone away from God’s will for human life. That the premiere Catholic university in the United States would give an honorary doctorate of law to one of the most aggressive pro-abortion politicians in our history is profoundly shocking.
 
They were actually arrested while walking along praying the rosary led by a couple of people holding a large picture of Our Lady. Apparently Notre Dame is embarrassed by the pro-life movement and would like to distance itself from it. Here’s further evidence.

Daddums 🙂
THIS is very telling INDEED!! Provided this is taken from a reliable source. I for one am very tired of “Catholic” Universities and Institutions hiding behind a Catholic label. Displaying to the world how very “Catholic” they are when they put on productions such as the “Vagina Monologue” or whatever the heck they called it, inviting one of the most pro abortion Presidents in our history and presenting him with a Doctorate, and then distancing themselves with anything pro life.:rolleyes: I am with Raymond Arroyo, they need to be stripped of their Catholic identity. I believe the Bishops would have authority to do this, even though they do not have authority to do much else.

And even though the protesters broke the rules, trespassing probably, there was no out of control behavior that I have seen reported anywhere. They were praying, and the women handing out literature were doing just that, handing out literature! Were they destroying property? Not that I am aware. Were they disturbing the peace? Not that I could find. Please, someone correct me if I’m wrong!!! They were arrested, OK, they planned on being arrested, probably for more publicity and sympathy for the cause of life. So, ND couldn’t stop at that. Nope, they couldn’t act on Christian principles and ask the court for leniency, which would have gone a long way to maybe help to heal the divide. They basically thumbed their nose at the protesters and in doing so the whole of the pro life community. Not that the charges could have been that serious, it was the PRINCIPAL OF IT. It was PAY BACK TIME. Vindictive? You bet they are!!! Displaying their Catholic attitude? Not even close!!!
 
Easily said. For instance?
For instance bancruptcy law can be ignored so that payback can be given to political supporters by moving them ahead of secured bondholders who agreed to lending to a troubled entity at a lower rate in return for being first in line should the entity fail. Or an (name removed by moderator)ector General could get fired if he starts investigating the illegal activities of someone who has a friend in a very high position of power.

Daddums 🙂
 
That’s what bombers and terroristic killers believe, and I’m not calling the protesters terrorists. The fact is, when you get some folks wrapped up into thinking they are representing 'God’s law" its a prescription for disaster. It is not their place to break the laws. God represents God’s laws.
God’s law says “thou shalt not murder” - if they’re trying to murder people, it is obvious they’re not representing God but his opponent.

Are you saying that God has no human representatives on earth?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top