Novus Ordo community not okay?

[puppy99]

Lately I am so confused about one question:

What’s the difference between traditional communities and Novus Ordo communities?

One SSPX priest told me that the problem with all Novus Ordo communities, is that they lost the spirit of sacrifice. Based on this comment, seems all Novus Ordo comunities are bad enough.

I do agree there is a crisis in current days regarding all the non-traditional communities in the world, like few religious wearing a habit, teaching new catechism, rare use of Latin. Etc…

But can we draw a conclusion that all Novus Ordo communities are bad enough today?

 

[thewanderer]

Lately I am so confused about one question:

What’s the difference between traditional communities and Novus Ordo communities?

One SSPX priest told me that the problem with all Novus Ordo communities, is that they lost the spirit of sacrifice. Based on this comment, seems all Novus Ordo comunities are bad enough.

I do agree there is a crisis in current days regarding all the non-traditional communities in the world, like few religious wearing a habit, teaching new catechism, rare use of Latin. Etc…

But can we draw a conclusion that all Novus Ordo communities are bad enough today?

It sounds like a vast generalization to me. Does this SSPX priest really know the inner workings of every Community that uses the Ordinary Form of the Mass? I highly doubt it. In case you were wondering, I happened to be involved brieffly with an OF community where both the practice of fasting and limiting sleep were common.

However, I would also note that even where such visible external forms of sacrifce are not present that does not mean that a community does not have the “spirit of sacrifice”. There are many forms of sacrifice, not just bodily.

 

[choliks]

Lately I am so confused about one question:

What’s the difference between traditional communities and Novus Ordo communities?

Ignoring the attitude, I’d say just the preference for the form of Latin Mass.

One SSPX priest told me that the problem with all Novus Ordo communities, is that they lost the spirit of sacrifice. Based on this comment, seems all Novus Ordo comunities are bad enough.

You’d be talking about a majority of Latin Rite Catholics here, including Rome. The Pope celebrates using the OF (or Novus Ordo to you and others). Are you telling the people here that they are bad? Are you saying that they’ve lost their sense of sacrifice?

This is a classic case of sharing in the schismatic attitude and thinking of the SSPX.

I do agree there is a crisis in current days regarding all the non-traditional communities in the world, like few religious wearing a habit, teaching new catechism, rare use of Latin. Etc…

The items listed here merit separate threads on their own.

But can we draw a conclusion that all Novus Ordo communities are bad enough today?

If you do draw that conclusion, you’ll need an awefully big brush to cover the whole world in one stroke.

What falls under Novus Ordo communities? A huge majority of religious orders and congregations (including Mother Teresa), and the rest of Latin Rite Catholics who prefer the Ordinary Form. I’m sure you don’t know each and every one of them to come to such a conclusion as “all Novus Ordo communities are bad enough today.”

 

[puppy99]

In case you were wondering, I happened to be involved brieffly with an OF community where both the practice of fasting and limiting sleep were common.

Oh, What is the name of the community you are involved? Is it very good?

I like the Novus Ordo community I am involved. But the SSPX priest said, no, you shouldn’t join them.

And he even gave me a hint that I can’t go to heaven if I join a Novus Ordo Community.

But when I apply to join SSPX, the priest asked me to finish reading all the traditional catechim before I find him next time. And that may cause me more than one year to finish!

They are just so unpredictable…

Actually I know SSPX is returning to the church, and may change a lot after they are back. But I am really lack in trust in SSPX now.

 

[puppy99]

This is a classic case of sharing in the schismatic attitude and thinking of the SSPX.

Thank you for your reply! Your spicy actually made me feel much comfortable.

Strangely enough, each time when I get closer to SSPX, I am no longer happy, but always feel quite confused. It’s a sign that God wants me to stay away from them.

I do like tradition very much, but seems I shouldn’t get close to SSPX until they come back to the church.

At the moment, the SSPX priest just want to brainwash me before he could accept me. I think it’s the trick he is playing, I do not see his sincerity at all. And he pretends to be a saint, a loving father. I think it’s another sign that he is extremely dangerous.

 

[wasserfall]

But when I apply to join SSPX, the priest asked me to finish reading all the traditional catechim before I find him next time. And that may cause me more than one year to finish!

Personally I think the SSPX priest is giving you good advice here. Don’t rush in to the SSPX. Read the entire catechism first.

 

[thewanderer]

Oh, What is the name of the community you are involved? Is it very good?

I like the Novus Ordo community I am involved. But the SSPX priest said, no, you shouldn’t join them.

And he even gave me a hint that I can’t go to heaven if I join a Novus Ordo Community.

But when I apply to join SSPX, the priest asked me to finish reading all the traditional catechim before I find him next time. And that may cause me more than one year to finish!

They are just so unpredictable…

Actually I know SSPX is returning to the church, and may change a lot after they are back. But I am really lack in trust in SSPX now.

I will PM you about it

 

[Elizium23]

Your priest has presented a false dichotomy that will fade as time goes on. I believe that there is room in the heart for both rites at the appointed times. Once our calendar has been reformed and unified, it will be more possible to celebrate the EF on solemn occasions and the OF on “ordinary” days. I would envision a structure somewhat like the Byzantine Rite, which has the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil the Great, and the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. St. Basil’s liturgy is longer, considered more solemn, and is celebrated ten times in the year.

As for us, the EF could be incorporated into all parishes! All priests could again be trained in Latin and all would own vestments appropriate to both Forms of the Latin Rite. There could still be communities which cling to the EF exclusively, of course, but I believe that the EF is a shining beacon that should not be hidden under a bushel basket.

As a Roman Catholic born after the Vatican II reforms, I have yet to experience a TLM, because my parents object to it, and I have never gone out of my way to seek it out. I believe it should be brought to us and made an integral part of all communities.

Some people will take offense at the term “Novus Ordo community” so if I were you, I would not refer to communities or people with this limiting terminology. Sorry to contradict your holy priest.

 

[Filii_Dei]

There are bad Novus Ordo communities, just as there are bad traditionalist communities. Their wrong do not lie in the rites that they use, but in the dismissive and uncharitable perspectives of the Church.

There are those who take it upon themselves to commit liturgical abuse after liturgical abuse and water down Holy Tradition, thinking the Catholic Church to be a nothing more than a relic of medieval times, while on the other hand there are those who spit upon anything that is associated with or postdates the Second Vatican Council. Neither is a healthy attitude to take.

I exhort you to associate with neither, but to integrate yourself in a community which both upholds the traditions of the Church and admits the continued orthodoxy of the Catholic Church. Submit yourself to prayer and contemplation of Church teachings, and do not let yourself dwell too much on such issues, for it has potential to incite pride and bitterness.

 

[puppy99]

do not let yourself dwell too much on such issues, for it has potential to incite pride and bitterness.

You are totally right, thanks.

The SSPX priest told me Novus Ordo community teaches modern catechism, so they are no good.

 

[Leo13_Pius10]

Lex orandi, lex credendi (As we pray, so we believe) was coined as far as I know by St Prosper of Aquitaine in his fight against the Pelagians in the seventh century and the Church has held dear to it ever since (Augustine also said a similar thing I believe so St Prosper may have got it from earlier in the church).

The offertory prayer from the EF runs as so.

Súscipe, sancte Pater, omnípotens ætérne Deus, hanc immaculátam hóstiam, quam ego indígnus fámulus tuus óffero tibi Deo meo vivo et vero, pro innumerabílibus peccátis, et offensiónibus, et negligéntiis meis, et pro ómnibus circumstántibus, sed et pro ómnibus fidélibus christiánis vivis atque defúunctis: ut mihi et illis profíciat ad salútem in vitam ætérnam. Amen.

Which is translated as the following.

Accept, O Holy father, Almighty and Eternal God, this spotless host, which I, Your unworthy servant, offer to You, my living and true God, to atone for my numberless sins, offences, and negligences; on behalf of all here present and likewise for all faithful Christians living and dead, that it may profit me and them as a means of salvation to life everlasting. Amen

Sadly (to my mind) the OF mass does not explicitly offer Christ as the sacrifical lamb in the same way that the EF or Catholic theology says. This obviously does not detract from the validity or licitness of the OF, but it is sad in the light of the concept of lex orandi that such expliciteness was removed from the mass. I truly believe that much of today’s problems experienced by Holy Mother Church can be attributed in some manner to the spirit of change that lead to this prayer’s removal as well as other prayers like it.

As I said above, such explicitness is not required for true and proper belief in the sacrifice of the mass as the Catholic Church has and continues to teach. And it would be wrong and illogical to tar all the novus ordo ‘communities’ with the same brush. However, I think from a pure statistical perspective it is easy to lose touch with Catholic teachings if what we pray does not reflect them as well as it could.

 

[agnes_therese]

The SSPX priest told me Novus Ordo community teaches modern catechism, so they are no good.

Now, there’s a huge problem right there. To say that it is “no good” to teach the Catechism that was given us by the Church itself – that’s a huge red flag.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Puppy, I recommend that you attend Mass at your local, territorial parish. Join the Knight of Columbus or Legion of Mary at that parish. Read the current Catechism. Do not join the SSPX community of the priest you’ve been speaking to. He’s gone a little too far of the edge.

 

[maryjk]

Oh, What is the name of the community you are involved? Is it very good?

I like the Novus Ordo community I am involved. But the SSPX priest said, no, you shouldn’t join them.

And he even gave me a hint that I can’t go to heaven if I join a Novus Ordo Community.

You might want to ask him if the Pope is excluded from heaven because he uses the Ordinary Form of the Mass.

But when I apply to join SSPX, the priest asked me to finish reading all the traditional catechim before I find him next time. And that may cause me more than one year to finish!

They are just so unpredictable…

Actually I know SSPX is returning to the church, and may change a lot after they are back. But I am really lack in trust in SSPX now.

I would too.

 

[sw85]

It sounds like a vast generalization to me. Does this SSPX priest really know the inner workings of every Community that uses the Ordinary Form of the Mass? I highly doubt it. In case you were wondering, I happened to be involved brieffly with an OF community where both the practice of fasting and limiting sleep were common.

However, I would also note that even where such visible external forms of sacrifce are not present that does not mean that a community does not have the “spirit of sacrifice”. There are many forms of sacrifice, not just bodily.

Well, speaking from someone who was an outsider looking in at the time, I never, ever knew the Mass was supposed to be participation in a sacrifice until after I went to my first TLM. I went to it and had a sense that it was vastly different from the OF masses I had attended up to that point. I did my homework and only then did I learn that the Mass was sacrificial, and it was this characteristic that had struck me so forcefully in the TLM which was seemingly absent in the OF. Beyond the veiled and token reference to “This our sacrifice and yours,” I would never have guessed, and it certainly wasn’t brought up in RCIA. Granted, this was early in my days as a Catholic, so…

In any event, I don’t think one needs to disparage the OF as a source of grace in order to think it’s not a very good source of enlightenment. So I guess I echo the sentiment of Leo13_Pius10 above.

You are totally right, thanks.

The SSPX priest told me Novus Ordo community teaches modern catechism, so they are no good.

Hm. I think it depends on what he means. If he means it’s not a very good catechism I’m inclined to believe him. The CCC is a long, ugly, tortured, ponderous and frankly unpleasant read. In places it is extraordinarily difficult to parse what the Church is actually trying to teach, in part because it has an annoying tendency to pluck whole paragraphs out of context from papal encyclicals and then scatter them around. I struggled for months trying to figure out what the Church’s teaching on the death penalty actually is. I’m not entirely confident I have it right now, but suffice to say the CCC was only a source of confusion and not at all of edification for me in this respect. I personally consult the Catechism of Pius X at least as often as I do the CCC.

If he means the contents of it are no good, well, that’s very questionable. The principles relayed in the Catechism are protected from error, even if its precise wording isn’t.

 

[puppy99]

Puppy, I recommend that you attend Mass at your local, territorial parish. Join the Knight of Columbus or Legion of Mary at that parish. Read the current Catechism. Do not join the SSPX community of the priest you’ve been speaking to. He’s gone a little too far of the edge.

Dear Sally, I used to attend EFs in local parishes, and later I found SSPX here.

I never realized how dangerous the SSPX priest is until now. It’s like a nightmare for me. :bighanky:

I was once discouraged, frustrated and depressed. There was a time I no longer wanted to practice religion, I wanted to go apostacy. My soul was seriously wounded, and I didn’t know they could be so harmful.

I had a horrible experience when I stayed with SSPX. Luckily merciful God arranged the Novus Ordo community to save me, and I was healed there. But later SSPX priest condemned me of attending a “Novus Ordo” retreat.

 

[jam070406]

This thread is awful. And it is hearsay from a second party. (As far as we know.)
We don’t know this Priest. Nor do we know the context or full conversation at hand. What was said between you and said Prsiest should remain private. Not posted on a public forum. This does nothing but promote gossip and speculation. We have plenty enough SSPX bashing threads. We don’t need another.

 

[puppy99]

You might want to ask him if the Pope is excluded from heaven because he uses the Ordinary Form of the Mass.
I would too.

Thanks, and I am praying for they returning to the church every day.

 

[puppy99]

This thread is awful. And it is hearsay from a second party. (As far as we know.)
We don’t know this Priest. Nor do we know the context or full conversation at hand. What was said between you and said Prsiest should remain private. Not posted on a public forum. This does nothing but promote gossip and speculation. We have plenty enough SSPX bashing threads. We don’t need another.

Sorry, I didn’t know that. Kindly ask the administrator to delete this one. Thanks.

 

[jam070406]

Nothing you have said can be verified.
This sounds like anti-SSPX propaganda piece.