Number of New England Catholics tumble

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In my very humble native Bostonian opinion, I think that the best summation of why New England (and Massachusetts, in particular) has become so secular can be found in Philip Lawler’s book “The Faithful Departed.”

In it you will find the sad but true (in my own experience and view) tale of how Catholics fought for acceptance, inclusion and power, and, once it had been achieved, the hierarchy had no intention of letting it go. There was a lot of “going along to get along”, and the Catholic faithful figured that, if their own bishops weren’t taking a strong stance on the moral issues of the day, why should they? Some of the worst “Catholic” politicians came and come from this area, and it makes me sadly shake my head.
 
dixieagle said:
In my very humble native Bostonian opinion, I think that the best summation of why New England (and Massachusetts, in particular) has become so secular can be found in Philip Lawler’s book “The Faithful Departed.”

In it you will find the sad but true (in my own experience and view) tale of how Catholics fought for acceptance, inclusion and power, and, once it had been achieved, the hierarchy had no intention of letting it go. There was a lot of “going along to get along”, and the Catholic faithful figured that, if their own bishops weren’t taking a strong stance on the moral issues of the day, why should they? Some of the worst “Catholic” politicians came and come from this area, and it makes me sadly shake my head.
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Dixie, would it be safe to assume that the more liberal the state (Massachussets), the worse the problem? For that matter, are there any states in the northeast U.S. that are considered conservative? Or are they all just some level of liberal?
 
Scoobyshme said:
Dixie, would it be safe to assume that the more liberal the state (Massachussets), the worse the problem? For that matter, are there any states in the northeast U.S. that are considered conservative? Or are they all just some level of liberal?
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I’d say that they are all pretty liberal, with every state voting Democratic since 1992, I believe. There are only Democratic members of Congress in all 6 states now, if I am not mistaken. I see all this from a distance now, as I have lived in the deep South for 30+ years, and get back to New England a couple times yearly, as my family lives there.

There has been a huge backlash against the Church as a result of the clergy sex abuse issue, though I think that some people simply used that as an excuse. The bishops (particularly Boston) haven’t been anything to write home about, and Cardinal Law is particularly reviled. It is a sad story, indeed, for an area that has been so historically Catholic.
 
dixieagle said:
In my very humble native Bostonian opinion, I think that the best summation of why New England (and Massachusetts, in particular) has become so secular can be found in Philip Lawler’s book “The Faithful Departed.”

In it you will find the sad but true (in my own experience and view) tale of how Catholics fought for acceptance, inclusion and power, and, once it had been achieved, the hierarchy had no intention of letting it go. There was a lot of “going along to get along”, and the Catholic faithful figured that, if their own bishops weren’t taking a strong stance on the moral issues of the day, why should they? Some of the worst “Catholic” politicians came and come from this area, and it makes me sadly shake my head.
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Bingo! Phil did a masterful job in analyzing the situation. He is a loyal and orthodox son of the Church. We have failed to keep our eyes on Jesus.
 
Its not just happening in New England but in ‘old’ England as well. If it were not for Polish immigrants my own church would consist of pensioners and under 15 year olds - the priest is Indian on his missionary journey to the UK. There are so few English priests that to meet one is unexpected ( even our Cardinal is of Irish extraction). In England most Catholics are of Irish, Scottish or European origin. Actual English Catholics are in a minority - largely intellectuals or from old Catholic families (like mine) that provided martyrs for the faith. We live in a secular society where ALL the political parties support abortion, stem-cell research, etc. In every party - Left, Right and Center - there are Catholics, but there is not much commom ground shown between them. Church attendance fluctuates, increasing at Christmas and Easter…slumping in the winter months and the summer. The Church functions mainly to mark rites of passage, birth, marriages and death. The Church has a bad press. Anti-Christian Secularists have become more militant trying to squeeze the Church out of civic life. Being a Catholic today is seen as being decidedly ‘odd’. Only our church schools are thriving (which is really odd). To blame Vatican II for the change is like blaming Roosevelt for Pearl Harbour ! Vatican II keeps me and my friends in the church…a return to medievalism would go down like a lead balloon in northern Europe!
 
I’m a New England Catholic who has watched this Church transformed into a shadow of what it once was. I have had to leave my old parish and seek the faith in a Church many miles away. We have a bishop that allows priests to hold routine seminars at nurnerous other parishes who openly dismiss the hierarchy - substitute the radical feminist model (circle of equallity)in its place - proclaim that “we’re all going to heaven” and accompany all this with guitar playing and yoga lite. When you complain - nothing happens. We routinely bury people with funeral Mass comments that “they are with God” instead of praying for the repose of their souls. Our book stores with the word Catholic above their names are anything but -and the Bishop doesn’t care.In Connecticut, we wimped out on Plan B for our hospitals and a few years back had a bishop promise not to oppose a public bill granting equal protection for gay behavior without a whimper. I have many Catholic friends who gladly voted for Obama the infanticide supporter and some even have his name on their bumper sitickers in the Church parking lot.
Catholic parents often treat confirmation as a bar mitzvah type event -dropping the kids off for catechism (but missing Mass) and fail to show up once the bar mitzvah event is over.

I am not surprised at the number of fallen away Catholics at all. I can only be reminded of Paul 6th’s comment when he finally woke up to the destruction of his Church. “the smoke of Satan has entered the tabernacle.” Well it was all over our New england pews for years.
 
This is indeed sad, very sad. Thank God we have a strong Archbishop with good old fashion values and orthodoxy. I would go crazy in an atmosphere like that. I most sincerely promise that you and the Church where you and wherever it is like this are in my prayers.
 
sidonius said:
This decline is part of a larger secularization of society. It has been exacerbated by the abuse of young men by certain priests here in Boston and in many other dioceses of New England. The former Bishop of Springfield is still, I believe, in hiding. The decline, particularly among Irish Catholics, started before the scandal hit in 2002.
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The former Bishop of Springfield is not hiding.
 
Scoobyshme said:
Dixie, would it be safe to assume that the more liberal the state (Massachussets), the worse the problem? For that matter, are there any states in the northeast U.S. that are considered conservative? Or are they all just some level of liberal?
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New Hampshire is a conservative state for the most part
 
It is not the same Church that is crumbling. This is a near schismatic Church that in America, failed to keep her bearings under the assualt from those that couldn’t wait to destroy her and saw their opportunity in the loose and fast sixties which were basically a revolution against all authority.

The dissenters pretended that dogma and doctrine had indeed been changed by Vatican II.

Loose priests and timid bishops contributed to the fall. As one top theologian told me once: no one follows and uncertain trumpet into battle. And so it is today with the surviving remnant gaining back strength while the revolutionaries pout and dissemble.

Catechisis has been undermined for decades now. Those who are “leaving” their faith, for the most part never had it - at least the true faith. They have chosen the easier path or have chosen an imitation church that stands firm in what it believes.

The Church will prevail over Satan’s thrusts, but as in history, any part of it may falter and die. This means once Catholic New England.

On Judgment Day it will all come together again.
 
It is interesting that Archbishop Chaput has just laid the same observations on the Church (Catechesis etc) on the Church.
 
Don_L said:
It is not the same Church that is crumbling. This is a near schismatic Church that in America, failed to keep her bearings under the assualt from those that couldn’t wait to destroy her and saw their opportunity in the loose and fast sixties which were basically a revolution against all authority.

The dissenters pretended that dogma and doctrine had indeed been changed by Vatican II.

The Church will prevail over Satan’s thrusts, but as in history, any part of it may falter and die. This means once Catholic New England.

On Judgment Day it will all come together again.
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While I agree with many of your posts I must point out that New England was NEVER Catholic. Except for Rhodes Island which was essentially a colony of misfits that Massachusetts Bay threw out, New England was a Puritan settlement in which Catholics were actively persecuted for two hundred years and in many areas are still looked down upon as “uneducated” and “unsophisticated.” Catholics grew in numbers with the influx of Irish and Italian immigrants, who were looked down upon by the established descendants of the Scots Irish and English. Google “Ursuline convent riots.” As those immigrants gained political power the persecution faded, but there are still plenty of old New Englanders who consider Catholicism at best a social handicap.

Just from my own observation I would say that the clergy sex abuse crisis is a huge reason for the reduction in numbers of Catholics here. Even among those of us who remain there is a dark cloud of shame. Too many in the hierarchy are still tainted by their actions or lack thereof. Many of our young people instantly suspect every priest, that’s how pervasive the subject has been.

OTOH, New England’s Protestant churches are also losing numbers. It is a region where there is no “public pressure” to be a church attender. People don’t go just because it’s expected. Possibly that means a higher percentage of those in the pews are truly committed to their faith than in other regions, I don’t know.
 
I seem to remember Connecticut as being 46% Catholic at one time. Massachusetts close (?) Since as little as 5% is often sufficient to sway an election, the moral teachings of the Church alone could have been sufficient to prevent an infanticide advocate from taking over the nation’s Whitehouse.

Perhaps New Hampshire was not Catholic, but is now holding the dubious honor of playiing host to a growing population of evermore Boston type catholics (small c intended)
 
hxcCatholic413 said:
The former Bishop of Springfield is not hiding.
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OK, so where is he? Last we knew, he was in fact hiding - since fleeing Springfield the day before the paper published the story about him - behind the walls of a “treatment facility” in another state, beyond the reach of the law.
 
:rolleyes:

When you call people like Ted Kennedy Catholic, then what difference does it make if there are less of them?

🤷
 
I am seeing a lot of strong opinions expressed here. It causes one thought to come to mind. “Judge not…”
 
Judge not implies condemnation of another. I suspect the area of discernment and admonishment, which Paul requires us to do, requires us to do what many would call “Judgement.”

When a Catholic politician lives a public life of outrageous sin and openly supports abortion then I suspect that observation and discernment are in play.

We would do well to pray for such people, but not fear to admonish them and call what they support doing, wrong, or as JPII told us: call black black, white white, and grey grey.
 
When you call people like Ted Kennedy Catholic, then** what difference does it make if there are less of them?**
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🤷
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Don_L said:
Judge not implies condemnation of another. I suspect the area of discernment and admonishment, which Paul requires us to do, requires us to do what many would call “Judgement.”

When a Catholic politician lives a public life of outrageous sin and openly supports abortion then I suspect that observation and discernment are in play.

**We would do well to pray for such people, but not fear to admonish them **and call what they support doing, wrong, or as JPII told us: call black black, white white, and grey grey.
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**bolding = mine
**

Don - while I agree totally with your comments, my statement was addressed to the post about “what difference does it make…” Prayer is definitely called for as well as admonishment. But we do not dismiss them as not being worthy, as none of us are.
 
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