Nun Accused Of Knuckle Sandwich Threat

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wabrams:
It is the same in the eyes of the law. I took enough law classes as an undergraduate to be able to understand what the law says.
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Apparently you took the wrong classes. I can’t even believe you are arguing this point.
 
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wabrams:
It is the same in the eyes of the law. I took enough law classes as an undergraduate to be able to understand what the law says.
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Your position might make more sense if the Sister called him, his mother, and his aunt a @!!@##% and that he was pathetic and his sister was a prositute and his name was worth nothing more than $%%#$@@.

That’s not what she did. She threatened a rule-breaker because he was breaking the rules.
 
Brad and wabrams, you are both right in different senses.

Brad, you are right that assault and battery are different terms, with assault being a verbal threat and battery physical.

Wabrams, you are right that both assault and battery are or can be prosecutable crimes.

Brad, just go to any county court and you will see plenty of people coming in on “simple assault” charges, and facing criminal penalties. Assault cam be a criminal offense. Of course, so can battery. And the two are often combined.

The average person often confuses assault with battery. Perhaps that’s what’s happening with you two.

And yes, Brad, if you threatened someone verbally (assault), you can get arrested depending on the circumstances. Especially in schools as opposed to say a simple public street.

Schools in my area now routinely will suspend or even expel students who verbally threaten or harass other students.

It’s a sad world in some respects.
 
For going up the wrong stairwell? If it’s a continious thing, maybe. If not, then she went beyond. Having said that, most kids, parents and administrator’s could use a knuckle sandwich.

In Christ,
Lew
 
To all,

Be honest, if we got in trouble everytime we said something wrong or stupid, where would we be? The nun was likely frustrated with the kid and said something very inappropriate–I have done that plenty of times.

This culture has lost its brains.
 
Tantum ergo:
Brad and wabrams, you are both right in different senses.

Brad, you are right that assault and battery are different terms, with assault being a verbal threat and battery physical.

Wabrams, you are right that both assault and battery are or can be prosecutable crimes.

Brad, just go to any county court and you will see plenty of people coming in on “simple assault” charges, and facing criminal penalties. Assault cam be a criminal offense. Of course, so can battery. And the two are often combined.

The average person often confuses assault with battery. Perhaps that’s what’s happening with you two.

And yes, Brad, if you threatened someone verbally (assault), you can get arrested depending on the circumstances. Especially in schools as opposed to say a simple public street.

Schools in my area now routinely will suspend or even expel students who verbally threaten or harass other students.

It’s a sad world in some respects.
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Actually, webrams was trying to say the verbal and the physcal are the same and I was saying they are far different (in law and in reality). My terminology (assault, battery) may have been off a bit but that’s not the stumbling block but our terminology is not our differnce. Our difference, I think, is one of perspective.

I believe kids need far more discipline than is received today - mose especially in schools. It is for this reason that most inner-city schools (how many students is that - 25 million or so?) are absolutely pathetic in productivity - the bad kids cannot be restrained for fear of judicial intimidation - as is likely happening here.
 
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Brad:
It is not the same in the eyes of the law - huge difference.
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Brad,

Sorry, but it is, in the absence of a codification of Common Law to the contrary, an assault is an offer to do harm or causing another to be in fear that they will be harmed. The offer can be physical - a gesture suggesting same - or verbal - a threat. A battery is the consummation of an assault.

That an adult, in the teaching profession, a member of a religious community, 69 years old, would make such a statement to a child for the heinous offense of using the wrong stairwell is an indicator that she should have retired long ago. Her judgement is suspect and she certainly does not belong in an educational setting.

Many years,

Neil
 
vern humphrey:
Takes me back to my days at Landry Memorial in Lake Charles, Louisiana.

“Johnnie, did you tell your father I hit you yesterday?”

“Yes, Brother.”

SMACK! “Tell him I hit you again today.” http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
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I went to public school in Georgia and my memories are like this:
"Johnnie, did you tell your father I hit you yesterday?

“No, teacher.”

“Why not?”

“I am not ready to die.”
 
Nexts weeks Headline.

Student threatend by Nun with Nuckle sandwhich socially promoted after failing the 7th grade 3 times.

David Witt a student at Saint Marks Catholic School is to be socially promoted this year. The Priniciple SSND Janet Mary threatend the teacher Sister Teresea SC a 90 year old Carmelite nun with excomunication from the church if she did not promote little david now age 19 from the 7th grade. When contacted at her convent Sister Terresa said. “I cant Stand that @#^&#^ #$&^#&$^ I wish she would go #&$&#$& #$&#($& and #$&#&$ #$(&#$*&.” I have been a teacher for 60 years and every time I get home now, I have a bottle of wine for dinner and than chase it down with a couple of brandys or a Screwdriver. Than I pass out saying the rosary. I dont know who to pray for more, Little David or Sister JM?

When contacted Sister Janet replied. Well at this point Sister Teresa weighs just 75 Pounds and little David in the 7th grade weighs 245 pounds. I thought it was just in the personal safety of all the students to get that little retard out of there as fast as possible.
 
Irish Melkite:
Brad,

Sorry, but it is, in the absence of a codification of Common Law to the contrary, an assault is an offer to do harm or causing another to be in fear that they will be harmed. The offer can be physical - a gesture suggesting same - or verbal - a threat. A battery is the consummation of an assault.

That an adult, in the teaching profession, a member of a religious community, 69 years old, would make such a statement to a child for the heinous offense of using the wrong stairwell is an indicator that she should have retired long ago. Her judgement is suspect and she certainly does not belong in an educational setting.

Many years,

Neil
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Oh for Pete’s sake what kind of threat could a 69 year old nun be. I would guess she was using it as a figure of speech. People say things alI the time that they don’t mean literally. I agree this society has lost their mind.
 
I raised 4 and saw hundreds during my 38 years in Public Schools.

Kids do not always tell the truth!!!

I could tell you many “war stories”. 90% of the time the kids are at fault. That 69 year old nun reminds me of an old nun who is assigned to the attendance office at a San Antonio Catholic Girls H.S.

The first day of school and the first day my daughter walked in the door, that old nun came to my daughter and said,“Julie! I am so glad to see you, can I borrow some money for lunch?” My daughter gave her the money. We found out that that nun thinks certain girls are Julie…who graduated 10 years ago. Funny, yes, but sad too.
 
I went to a Catholic school where there was a tough sister who regularly said, “I’m going to put you through a wall!” when someone got out of line. She never got fired or even reprimanded for it because anyone with an ounce of sense knew that was just a way of talking. By the same token, not too many kids tried to see if she really meant it or not… 😉

I also did my student teaching in a public school & once I wrote up a girl for talking back to me. She got detention for one day, but for weeks afterward, the vice principal would corner me every chance he got & cross-examine me about the incident as if I was the one at fault. Finally, I turned on him & asked him why he was treating ME as the offender, and he gave me some lame answer about having to have all the information in order to make a fair decision, bla bla bla. I shouldn’t have been surprised when I applied for a permanent position at that school & didn’t even get the courtesy of an interview.

If you ask me, everyone who had it in for this poor old Sister deserved a knuckle sandwich & then some.
 
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stellina:
I went to a Catholic school where there was a tough sister who regularly said, “I’m going to put you through a wall!” when someone got out of line. She never got fired or even reprimanded for it because anyone with an ounce of sense knew that was just a way of talking. By the same token, not too many kids tried to see if she really meant it or not… 😉

I also did my student teaching in a public school & once I wrote up a girl for talking back to me. She got detention for one day, but for weeks afterward, the vice principal would corner me every chance he got & cross-examine me about the incident as if I was the one at fault. Finally, I turned on him & asked him why he was treating ME as the offender, and he gave me some lame answer about having to have all the information in order to make a fair decision, bla bla bla. I shouldn’t have been surprised when I applied for a permanent position at that school & didn’t even get the courtesy of an interview.

If you ask me, everyone who had it in for this poor old Sister deserved a knuckle sandwich & then some.
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I went to a Catholoic school run by the Christian Brothers. If one of them told you he’d give you a knuckle sandwich, you could take it to the bank.

Tough kids wound up in the ring with gloves on – facing a tougher kid. The toughest kids faced Brother.
 
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Brad:
Actually, webrams was trying to say the verbal and the physcal are the same and I was saying they are far different (in law and in reality). My terminology (assault, battery) may have been off a bit but that’s not the stumbling block but our terminology is not our differnce. Our difference, I think, is one of perspective.
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Actually, I said the a threat and assualt were the same thing. Go back and read the previous posts. I will admit I should have clearified post 13 and said I was referring to the 2nd definition.
 
Irish Melkite:
Brad,

Sorry, but it is, in the absence of a codification of Common Law to the contrary, an assault is an offer to do harm or causing another to be in fear that they will be harmed. The offer can be physical - a gesture suggesting same - or verbal - a threat. A battery is the consummation of an assault.

That an adult, in the teaching profession, a member of a religious community, 69 years old, would make such a statement to a child for the heinous offense of using the wrong stairwell is an indicator that she should have retired long ago. Her judgement is suspect and she certainly does not belong in an educational setting.

Many years,

Neil
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I’ve already clarified myself but here goes again. I was trying to say that threatening to give someone a knuckle sandwich and actually doing it are two different things in the eyes of the law. My use of the term assault was confusing but it doesn’t change that the action and the threat are 2 different things.

Her judgement may have been impacted by the child’s behavior in the past, considering any type of discipline is not allowed anymore. Any child without discipline will push the envelope until they are stopped. Such a threat (using a figure of speech without actual intention of acting on it) might be just what the child needs.

Instead, we are outraged at the elderly sister and the child continues to learn that disobedience of you elders is no longer a sin but something very positive. Hopefully, he won’t have this line of thinking the next time a police officer tries to pull him over.
 
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wabrams:
Actually, I said the a threat and assualt were the same thing. Go back and read the previous posts. I will admit I should have clearified post 13 and said I was referring to the 2nd definition.
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I know what you said and I understand it now - for the gazillionth time. If you think the act of punching someone and the threat of punching someone are the same - they are not - in reality and in law. Forget the word assualt as defined in the legal code. I’m talking about literally punching someone and just threatening to “knock someone’s teeth out”. A person in authority has the right to make a threat if they deem it necessary. Especially when it is a widely known figure of speech which might simply mean “you will be in trouble”.

If you are thinkint it is ok to arrest poor sister for this remark - then go become an anarchist.
 
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Brad:
The problem today is that a kid cannot even be sent to the principal’s office without parental complaint. If no discipline is allowed, situations escalate to the point where only a large-scale threat may have any impact.
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That seeems to be the urban myth; I would question its literal truyth, both in the public schools and the private schools. And given this is a nun, I would guess that it was a private school, which has traditionally had a more structured and direct approach to discipline. Neither of us have enough facts to judge whether or not this school has little or no discipline, so I would gess that there are standard disciplinary proceedures in place rather than little or none.

{QUOTE=Brad]I know of a school many years ago where large boys were literally put up against the wall and threatened. It didn’t take too many times of this before the kids stopped.

What we have today is no discipline - and we wonder why there are guns in school.

All it takes is one threat from an elderly sister and the whole school is afraid to get out of line - is that a bad thing? Instead we arrest the law-keeper and give free reign to the law breakers.

There are threats and then there are threats. The kid was on the wrong stairs. She threatened to knock his teeth out. The threat is a bullying threat; if she had threatened him with a trip to the principal;s office, I would say that she was right on. She has no business threatening to knock someone’s teeth out. She appears, but the facts stated, to be out of control.

Again, the facts seem to indicate that she is looking at criminal charges (although it could be a lawsuit in civil court for harrassment); all of which would seem to indicate that there is more to this story than meets the eye. It takes a bit to get the D.A. to take action; it is expensive to hire an attorney for a civil case. I strongly suspect that this is not a first incident, and that there may be more to the incident than we are being told.

Further more, if you wish to get respect, you show respect. That doesn’t mean, in any way, shape, or form that you let kids run hog wild, or that you don’t correct them. what she said I do not take as a joke, and she very plainly showed no respect.

We had a nun in high school who probably made 5 feet, and maybe 5’2". She must have had artheritis in her knees, as she walked with a noticeable sway from side to side. Not what you would call a threat. I saw her sever times wade right into the middle of a scuffle between juniors and seniors who stood 6" to 6"4" and probably weighed twice, if not more than she. She would grab the combatants by the chest of their shirts and bring it to a screeching halt. Everyone respected her, (and teased her), and she respected everyone. And she took absolutely no sass. She didn’t have to threaten a “knuckle sandwich”.
 
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