Obama 50%, Palin 33%

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SamH said:
Some people have no idea what socialism is.

Socialism ( /ˈsoʊ̯ʃəɫɪzm̩/) is an economic system in which the means of production are publicly or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively; or a political philosophy advocating such a system.

Largest insurance company - governement owned.

Largest and third largest car companies - government owned

Significant portions of the banking industry - government owned/controlled.

1/7th of the economy - being taken by the government through the “health care” law.

Individual banks and financial institutions “seized” without any guiding legal or regulatory authority (WaMu Bank).

I think the US is there.
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  1. Government ownerhip of all or at least most means of production would constitute socialism. Government supervision of particular industries is not socialism, it’s just common sense. Some industrie (many would argue, including healthcare) do not abide by standard economic ‘laws.’ Which is why we simulatenously have government sponsered monopolies as well as laws against monopolies in industries where monopolies would be harmful. Everyone knows this, accepting a few anarcho-capitalists who are incapable of thinking pragmatically.
The car companies in which the government has a controlling share, it should be noted, are togethor only a fraction of the American auto market. Because most of that market is imported, the global market market makes it impossible for the government to control that industry without either acquiring Toyota and Honda or outlawing imports.

Also, the government does not own 1/7 of the economy. That’s just a talking point. Universal healthcare (and please ingrain this into your mind, because I’m tired of hearing that erroneous satement) does not give the government control over the hea;thcare industry. It gives it control over the health *insurance *industry. There is a big difference between owning hospitals, as so many right wingers seem to think the government now does, and having a monopsony on collecting andd writing checks to policy holders in a single-payer system. Even that is lacking in the Obama admin’s healthcare system.

The US is not remotely socialist. The government does not come close to owning most ofthe means of production, a nd where it is an economic force is mainly in the financial sector, which hardly constitutes means of production. Given that the government has a monopoly on the printing of money and sets interest rates, it can be said that it has always controlled that sector of the economy.
 
Gift_from_God said:
What frustrates me is how conservatives say “we can’t rely on the government to fix our problems” and “government can’t do anything right” but when it comes to abortion, people just want to rely on the government to solve our problems
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Um…no. We want abortion, the killing of an innocent human being, to be made illegal. Slavery is illegal. Murder is illegal. Why not abortion?

Btw, Pro-lifers also do all the other things you listed. We can walk and chew gum at the same time, too.
 
rlg94086 said:
Um…no. We want abortion, the killing of an innocent human being, to be made illegal. Slavery is illegal. Murder is illegal. Why not abortion?
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Yes, but the sad truth is your politicians won’t touch it.
Btw, Pro-lifers also do all the other things you listed. We can walk and chew gum at the same time, too.
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I would hope so
 
Gift_from_God said:
The ballot box isn’t the only way to fight abortion. People helping women who are pregnant and being confrontational is a way to fight abortion. Politicians will never touch the issue and will only use it for political purposes to gain support from the right-wing one-issue voter base
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As we just saw in the state of Texas with Planned Parenthood closing clinics all over the state because of actions of the Republican legislature & Republican governor the myth that Republicans do not really want to do anything abortion is utter nonsense.
What frustrates me is how conservatives say “we can’t rely on the government to fix our problems” and “government can’t do anything right” but when it comes to abortion, people just want to rely on the government to solve our problems
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Conservatives realize that the primary purpose of the government is to ensure all citizens the unfettered right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Abortion is not just another political issue to be bantered about and compromised on as if it was merely one of many issues in line with the proper rate of taxation and that proper amount of social spending
 
this poll is unfair. One is pro abortion all the way and I can’t believe how many Catholics would vote for that one AGAIN! His administration is forcing coverage of CONTRACEPTIVES! The other did not abort her child with special needs and gets attacked all the time because she did NOT ABORT. If I had to choose between these two, I would have to vote for Palin,. I would NEVER VOTE FOR OBAMA!

otherwise, I would write in Rick Santorum.
 
rlg94086 said:
Not true. However, that is the excuse many liberals try to use in order to justify voting for a pro-choice candidate.
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Correct. As Archbishop Chaput said:

*Yet for thirty-five years I’ve watched prominent “pro-choice” Catholics justify themselves with the kind of moral and verbal gymnastics that should qualify as an Olympic event. All they’ve really done is capitulate to Roe v. Wade.
*
 
Gift_from_God said:
Friend, the USA is nowhere near socialist.
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I'd love to know what separates BHO from being a socialist, and a radical one at that. If you think that we are not living under socialism, with a ruthless hostility to free markets, you are kidding yourself, Friend. :o Rob
 
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Please do not engage in name calling. Please see the forum rules for more information
 
meltzerboy said:
I would vote for Obama compared to Palin. Liberal democratic attitudes die hard. However, I’m looking for a viable alternative among the GOP candidates: Romney, perhaps, although I don’t believe a word he says. Perry and Bachmann are both too ideologically conservative for me. They seem sincere with respect to their economic and social views, and that’s the frightening part.
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You mean the successful, competent chief executive SARAH Palin, who believes in free markets, energy sufficiency and the U.S. Constitution? Listen to HER on September 3rd, not what the elitist pundits say, and you'll understand why her supporters are so fervent. I can't, in my wildest imaginations, see how any person could fear a Palin Presidency, and actually vote for four more years of this disaster. When is enough enough? :confused: Rob
 
Raskolnikov said:
  1. Government ownerhip of all or at least most means of production would constitute socialism. Government supervision of particular industries is not socialism, it’s just common sense. Some industrie (many would argue, including healthcare) do not abide by standard economic ‘laws.’ Which is why we simulatenously have government sponsered monopolies as well as laws against monopolies in industries where monopolies would be harmful. Everyone knows this, accepting a few anarcho-capitalists who are incapable of thinking pragmatically.
The car companies in which the government has a controlling share, it should be noted, are togethor only a fraction of the American auto market. Because most of that market is imported, the global market market makes it impossible for the government to control that industry without either acquiring Toyota and Honda or outlawing imports.

Also, the government does not own 1/7 of the economy. That’s just a talking point. Universal healthcare (and please ingrain this into your mind, because I’m tired of hearing that erroneous satement) does not give the government control over the hea;thcare industry. It gives it control over the health *insurance *industry. There is a big difference between owning hospitals, as so many right wingers seem to think the government now does, and having a monopsony on collecting andd writing checks to policy holders in a single-payer system. Even that is lacking in the Obama admin’s healthcare system.

The US is not remotely socialist. The government does not come close to owning most ofthe means of production, a nd where it is an economic force is mainly in the financial sector, which hardly constitutes means of production. Given that the government has a monopoly on the printing of money and sets interest rates, it can be said that it has always controlled that sector of the economy.
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If you really think that a leviathan federal government can spend trillions of dollars, add multitudinous panels and layers of bureaucracy, and improve health care in America, there is little I could say to dissuade you from clinging to your internal logic. But I hope that you'll remember me when the collapse comes in the medical profession, as it already has in numerous other institutions. I'm sure that you and other leftists will still be blaming the Tea Party! ;) Rob
 
Robert_Bay said:
MODERATOR NOTE

Please do not engage in name calling. Please see the forum rules for more
information
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I have friends who proudly call themselves socialists. I don't know why some liberals recoil from the label. It's curious. That's why I asked the poster to please clue me in as to what separates Mr. Obama from socialism. Above, another poster clearly points out businesses from which the Feds have seized control from private hands, since this administration was empowered. That is the definition of socialism, at least as I learned it. Cordially, Rob :D
 
RACJ said:
If you really think that a leviathan federal government can spend trillions of dollars, add multitudinous panels and layers of bureaucracy, and improve health care in America, there is little I could say to dissuade you from clinging to your internal logic. But I hope that you’ll remember me when the collapse comes in the medical profession, as it already has in numerous other institutions. I’m sure that you and other leftists will still be blaming the Tea Party! 😉 Rob
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A single payer healthcare system has the potential to be much less expensive than an entirely private system, due in part to economies of scale. To say nothing of the fact that health insurance, which is a global industry, cannot (as recent history of the insurance industry in America has aptly proven) cannot be adequate regulated from a state level.

Keep imind RACJ, that the health care in the US costs well over twice as much money per person as is the average in other industrialized countries. Over $7,000 per person per year. Next on the list I believe is Switzerland, at around $5,000, and thats with tens ofmillions uninsured.

Now, I’m glad that you are perfectly content with the status quo and perhaps it has treated you well. But don’t expect everyone else to keep their head in the sand or put what’s in your interest first. I don’t see any economic reasons from your side. Just rants, complaints about the government being evil everywhere at all times. No arguments. I am not the one here who is delusional.
 
RACJ said:
I have friends who proudly call themselves socialists. I don’t know why some liberals recoil from the label. It’s curious. That’s why I asked the poster to please clue me in as to what separates Mr. Obama from socialism. Above, another poster clearly points out businesses from which the Feds have seized control from private hands, since this administration was empowered. That is the definition of socialism, at least as I learned it. Cordially, Rob 😃
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If Barack Obama were a socialist I woulddn’t be living in a nice suburban house and shelling out exorbitant amounts of money for private college education, I’d probably be living in an apartment alotted to me by the inner party.

Barack Obama is a liberal democrat. Argue with that ideology as you will, but to call him a socialist as misleading as calling almost every Republican candidate an anarchist.

And you use the word “seized” very liberally. The federal government seized nothing. On the contrary, banks and GM begger the state to bail them out. That’s not Marxian socialism, that’s good old fashioned crony capitalism.
 
😃

I cannot believe how many people think Palin could be President!!! It really makes me laugh!! But I do hope for Obama’s sake that she does run!!! It’ll make good daily comedy and ensure BO’s re-election for sure! America will never elect a quitter!
 
Raskolnikov said:
If Barack Obama were a socialist I woulddn’t be living in a nice suburban house and shelling out exorbitant amounts of money for private college education, I’d probably be living in an apartment alotted to me by the inner party.

Barack Obama is a liberal democrat. Argue with that ideology as you will, but to call him a socialist as misleading as calling almost every Republican candidate an anarchist.

And you use the word “seized” very liberally. The federal government seized nothing. On the contrary, banks and GM begger the state to bail them out. That’s not Marxian socialism, that’s good old fashioned crony capitalism.
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“We just need to spread the wealth around” President Obama

=socialism

Now maybe he
  1. Didn’t mean what he said or
  2. Didn’t understand what he said
🙂
 
Personanongrata said:
😃

I cannot believe how many people think Palin could be President!!! It really makes me laugh!! But I do hope for Obama’s sake that she does run!!! It’ll make good daily comedy and ensure BO’s re-election for sure! America will never elect a quitter!
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Many Catholics cannot believe the number of Catholics who voted for Barack Obama. 🤷

I really don’t understand anyone supporting him now that they have seen his inabilities in action. He has proven that he was ill prepared for the office, and he demonstrated a compete lack of leadership ability during the debt debate. Are you hoping he will get better at it somehow?
 
Personanongrata said:
😃

I cannot believe how many people think Palin could be President!!! It really makes me laugh!! But I do hope for Obama’s sake that she does run!!! It’ll make good daily comedy and ensure BO’s re-election for sure! America will never elect a quitter!
Click to expand...
By quitter do you mean like ex-Senators Biden, Obama and Clinton?
 
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