Obama and Romney Hit the Final Stretch PT 2

[ringil]

But PP is?

If you read my post you’d see I didn’t say that. I don’t care for either as a group.

 

[ishii]

Good response. I am opposed to abortion, very much so. I am a Catholic who, like any Catholic, even the conservatives, doesn’t accept the entire agenda of our respective sides (E.g., believe it or not, and I did find it hard to believe, there are some righttists who oppose the deaath penalty, one of the Right’s ne plus ultras). Similarly, I back the basic thrust of the liberal approach to dealing with how our country is to function, without signing on to every point of the agenda…

So you accept the basic tenets of the left/liberal ideology but without the abortion rights.

But the importance of the death penalty as a key tenet of the conservative ideololgy pales in comparison to the level of importance of abortion as one of the key issues for the left/liberal ideology. Generally, the right/conservative ideology supports death penalty, but you don’t really hear too much about where candidates stand on the issue during elections. Why do you think abortion rights is such a raison d’etre for the left? Does that come naturally based on the left ideology being increasingly secular?

Ishii

 

[_Abyssinia]

CNN has Obama up in Ohio by 4 points.

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/26/cnn-poll-obama-50-romney-46-in-ohio/?hpt=hp_t2

Cnn poll has a democrat plus 9 sample. It was democrat plus 1 in in 2010; democrat plus 5 in 2008

Poll says 2/5ths of Ohio likely voters have voted. That is not what county election offices say - 1/5 have voted

Last poll before the election in 2004 Cnn’s poll in Ohio had Bush 46%, Kerry 50%. Bush won by 2.1% - 50.8% to 48.7%

Last poll in 2004 election in Florida Cnn’s poll had Bush at 47%, Kerry 50%. Bush won by 5% - 52.1% to 47.1%

Cnn have been innacurate in previous election polls

Graph was put together before the 3 polls that show Ohio tied and you can see the inconsistency of the cnn poll

Among current Ohio RCP polls: Obama up 2.3, but Romney up 10.4 with independents and Dem turnout better than 08 by 1.5. pic.twitter.com/UKhSf56H

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[ishii]

If you read my post you’d see I didn’t say that. I don’t care for either as a group.

Something seems out of whack when you put both groups together as equally deplorable. You say that evangelicals and Planned Parenthood are both “bad” but one group’s mission is to abort as many babies as possible. What has the other group done that is just as bad? Is it because they help elect Republicans?

Ishii

 

[_Abyssinia]

Evangelicals and PP are bad things to have as one’s base. But then again, Evangelicals aren’t of my ilk.

I’d rather hang out with an atheist than an Evangelical any day of the week.

Evangelicals are fellow Christians. As Catholics we may not agree with not everything theologically but we still part of a Christian family

How you can you compare the largest abortion agency in the US to an entire group of Christians?

 

[ringil]

So you accept the basic tenets of the left/liberal ideology but without the abortion rights.

But the importance of the death penalty as a key tenet of the conservative ideololgy pales in comparison to the level of importance of abortion as one of the key issues for the left/liberal ideology. Generally, the right/conservative ideology supports death penalty, but you don’t really hear too much about where candidates stand on the issue during elections. Why do you think abortion rights is such a raison d’etre for the left? Does that come naturally based on the left ideology being increasingly secular?

Ishii

Again, there is “Left” and there is the Democratic Party of the US. There is “right” and there is the GOP.

While the Democrats are more agents of a left-leaning direction and the GOP or a right-leaning direction, neither is the Left and the Right respectfully.

By the same vein one could say that that those of the Left approve of mass excutions of dissidents and forced re-location of millions of people onto collective farms ala Mao or that those of the Right approve of holocausts of unwanted minorities ala Hitler.

 

[ringil]

Something seems out of whack when you put both groups together as equally deplorable. You say that evangelicals and Planned Parenthood are both “bad” but one group’s mission is to abort as many babies as possible. What has the other group done that is just as bad? Is it because they help elect Republicans?

Ishii

As a organization PP has a more focussed and evil aim- this is true.

Evangelicals are responsible for a more wide reaching societal regression of the US, characterized by small-mindedness, protestant work ethic, ethnocentrism, xenophobia, isolationism, and repression of social and intellectual progress. A good example is the pushing of anti-science and even seeking to indoctrinate the younger, including non-evangelicals into historical and scientific ignorance. I would call it a geralized “dumbing down” of the societal stage.

I also see a terrible infection of Evangelical thought in the US Catholic Church which is especially evident in some ideas expressed on CAF. In fact, one of the reasons I come here is that I see CAF as a kind of petri-dish of what is going on in some segments of the Church in the US. It is common knowledge that the US Catholic Church has elements quite unlike the global Church and I believe this is due to infections of the Bible belt and some converts who have carried defective mentality into their Catholic consciousness.

So, PP is more evil as their aim is murder and the direct teaching of a problematic sexual ethic. Evangelicals, on the other hand, often aren’t conscious of the harm they are inflicting on the society at large.

 

[ringil]

Cnn poll has a democrat plus 9 sample. It was democrat plus 1 in in 2010; democrat plus 5 in 2008

Poll says 2/5ths of Ohio likely voters have voted. That is not what county election offices say - 1/5 have voted

Last poll before the election in 2004 Cnn’s poll in Ohio had Bush 46%, Kerry 50%. Bush won by 2.1% - 50.8% to 48.7%

Last poll in 2004 election in Florida Cnn’s poll had Bush at 47%, Kerry 50%. Bush won by 5% - 52.1% to 47.1%

Cnn have been innacurate in previous election polls

Graph was put together before the 3 polls that show Ohio tied and you can see the inconsistency of the cnn poll

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A6LKdAnCQAAxmMR.jpg

Abysinnia, this is actually a meaningful and pertinent response. Thanks.

Added- I am only referring to the objective information of the times that CNN has been wrong as you can’t really wrap that stuff in GOP partisan muck. It just is what it is.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

So you accept the basic tenets of the left/liberal ideology but without the abortion rights.

Yes, of liberalism. BTW, I accept the non-negotiables - all of them.

But the importance of the death penalty as a key tenet of the conservative ideololgy pales in comparison to the level of importance of abortion as one of the key issues for the left/liberal ideology.

In general, yes. But, I reject abortion and the other points of the non-negotiables just as some conservatives reject the death penalty. I didn’t have to give my rejection of capital punishment any more thought than I did to rejecting abortion.

 

[ishii]

As a organization PP has a more focussed and evil aim- this is true.

Well that deserves the understatement of the year award.

 Evangelicals are responsible for a more wide reaching societal regression of the US, characterized by small-mindedness, protestant work ethic, ethnocentrism, xenophobia, isolationism, and repression of social and intellectual progress.  A good example is the pushing of anti-science and even seeking to indoctrinate the younger, including non-evangelicals into historical and scientific ignorance.  I would call it a geralized "dumbing down" of the societal stage.

So, PP is more evil as their aim is murder and the direct teaching of a problematic sexual ethic. Evangelicals, on the other hand, often aren’t conscious of the harm they are inflicting on the society at large.

Its laughable that you are actually comparing the two in the first place.  In terms of moral bankruptcy I would put Planned Parenthood much higher on the list than a group whose "evil" is to question evolution and gay marriage.  Furthmore, the evil of PP is there for all to see - they slaughter babies in their clinics.   So on the one hand we have PP responsible for slaughtering babies.  On the other we have a group of Christians who are responsible for "social regression".  I think you have a weak case here, Ringil.

Ishii

 

[Tampa_Dave]

CNN has Obama up in Ohio by 4 points.

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/26/cnn-poll-obama-50-romney-46-in-ohio/?hpt=hp_t2

CNN probably has Obama up in Utah too.

 

[ringil]

Well that deserves the understatement of the year award.

Its laughable that you are actually comparing the two in the first place.  In terms of moral bankruptcy I would put Planned Parenthood much higher on the list than a group whose "evil" is to question evolution and gay marriage.  Furthmore, the evil of PP is there for all to see - they slaughter babies in their clinics.   So on the one hand we have PP responsible for slaughtering babies.  On the other we have a group of Christians who are responsible for "social regression".  I think you have a weak case here, Ringil.

Ishii

You are the one making a comparison. I simply placed them in the same sentence and never implied or am even arguing that they are morally equal.

You are stating that I am presenting an argument or a kind of point to despel when I didn’t.

My posts are in the context of the threat and the flow of conversation. Maybe my sentence structure was poor, I don’t know.

I feel that BOTH Evangelical Fundamentalism and PP are destructive to society but the quality of that destruction are different in type.

 

[ishii]

Yes, of liberalism. BTW, I accept the non-negotiables - all of them.

In general, yes. But, I reject abortion and the other points of the non-negotiables just as some conservatives reject the death penalty. I didn’t have to give my rejection of capital punishment any more thought than I did to rejecting abortion.

Why do you think the left holds abortion rights, gay rights, etc. as so sacred?

Ishii

 

[ringil]

CNN probably has Obama up in Utah too.

I’m too lazy to look it up but I would be pretty surprised if they did.

Maybe you guys could actually try watching CNN, then, I believe you would see that it is not MSNBC.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Cnn poll has a democrat plus 9 sample. It was democrat plus 1 in in 2010; democrat plus 5 in 2008

Poll says 2/5ths of Ohio likely voters have voted. That is not what county election offices say - 1/5 have voted

Last poll before the election in 2004 Cnn’s poll in Ohio had Bush 46%, Kerry 50%. Bush won by 2.1% - 50.8% to 48.7%

Last poll in 2004 election in Florida Cnn’s poll had Bush at 47%, Kerry 50%. Bush won by 5% - 52.1% to 47.1%

Cnn have been innacurate in previous election polls

Graph was put together before the 3 polls that show Ohio tied and you can see the inconsistency of the cnn poll

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A6LKdAnCQAAxmMR.jpg

Rasmussen has Romney leading and consistently clearing 50%.

My concern in the election in the Senate, and while all the focus has been on MO, IN and WI, Interesting things are happening in RI, NJ, PA and CT.

We could feasibly win the last two.

 

[ringil]

Why do you think the left holds abortion rights, gay rights, etc. as so sacred?

Ishii

Not the “left”. The Democratic Party supports abortion and have no official stand on Gay marriage.

You are continuing to meld Left and the Democratic Party. I’ve put up, like three posts related to this.

“sacred”? I don’t get the use of the term sacred.

 

[ringil]

Rasmussen has Romney leading and consistently clearing 50%.

My concern in the election in the Senate, and while all the focus has been on MO, IN and WI, Interesting things are happening in RI, NJ, PA and CT.

We could feasibly win the last two.

The GOP are not going to win the Senate.

 

[ishii]

You are the one making a comparison. I simply placed them in the same sentence and never implied or am even arguing that they are morally equal.

You are stating that I am presenting an argument or a kind of point to despel when I didn’t.

My posts are in the context of the threat and the flow of conversation. Maybe my sentence structure was poor, I don’t know.

I feel that BOTH Evangelical Fundamentalism and PP are destructive to society but the quality of that destruction are different in type.

With all due respect, Ringil - go back and read the posts. You responded to a question asking, which is worse, having Planned Parenthood as part of your base or having evangelicals? You responded with an equivocation, “they are both bad.” But Planned Parenthood is infinitely worse! They are responsible for millions of abortions and they do this by lies and deception. What have evangelicals done, speak out against evolution?

Ishii

 

[SuperLuigi]

Why do you think the left holds abortion rights, gay rights, etc. as so sacred?

Ishii

Because the democrats have been taken over by environmentalists, progressive, socialist and marxists.

The party of the little guy, the farmer or the varied collar/union worker have vanished. They are full stem ahead on radical social values and massive, unsustainable environmental regulations on farms and mines.

Voters in Ohio, West Virginia, Virgina and Pennsylvania must take note of this administration’s war on ship building and mining and consider that in their local races as well.

 

[ringil]

With all due respect, Ringil - go back and read the posts. You responded to a question asking, which is worse, having Planned Parenthood as part of your base or having evangelicals? You responded with an equivocation, “they are both bad.” But Planned Parenthood is infinitely worse! They are responsible for millions of abortions and they do this by lies and deception. What have evangelicals done, speak out against evolution?

Ishii

I can see how that would be confusing- a comparison was not my intent. I do not see them as comparable in a sense of amount of damage but as a type of damage to society.

PP is an evil organization. Evangelical Protestantism is deeply flawed.

But see my above posts as to how Fundamentalism, to me, is more than about denying Evolution and seeking to spread a denial of Evolution.