Obama and Romney Hit the Final Stretch PT 2

[ringil]

He allows us free will to continue slaughtering babies, yes. But to say that He continues calling each of us to holiness and in turn to forming our consciences properly in order to make the right choice, blasphemy??? Really? Do you think God has no interest in each and every hair on our heads? What about each cell in the body of each child aborted? Blasphemy? Sorry you feel that way.

Petty affairs, abortion, redifining marriage which He created, etc.

Sorry sir, God is constantly calling us to holiness, and always forming us. It is when through the hardness of our hearts that we block His ability to affect our decisions through that formation. This is when He has no (name removed by moderator)ut to election, when we block out His (name removed by moderator)ut.

I don’t think GOD could be described as a Romney supporter or an Obama supporter.

Well, I guess he does “support” them both- but that’'s another theological structure.

 

[qui_est_ce]

He allows us free will to continue slaughtering babies, yes. But to say that He continues calling each of us to holiness and in turn to forming our consciences properly in order to make the right choice, blasphemy??? Really? ** Do you think God has no interest in each and every hair on our heads?** What about each cell in the body of each child aborted? Blasphemy? Sorry you feel that way.

Petty affairs, abortion, redifining marriage which He created, etc.

Sorry sir, God is constantly calling us to holiness, and always forming us. It is when **through the hardness of our hearts that we block His ability to affect our decisions through that formation. **This is when He has no (name removed by moderator)ut to election, when we block out His (name removed by moderator)ut.

Thank you for this.

I keep thinking about the Israelites and the cycle of sin, first silence, then servitude, supplication, salvation, and then silence again before sinning starts again.

I believe we are past the silent stage, some are in servitude (to the sins of abortion, sexual promiscuity). Some of us are in the supplication stage. There are many now praying for our country.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Oh, Mississippi- you so funny.

I gotta say though Rich, going from NYC to Ark had to be a hell of a shock.

It would have been, but I went from New York to LIT via San Antonio, Bangkok,and San Bernardino. Sort of eased myself into it. I thought that I’d have to throw my shoes away when I got here lest people say that I was putting on airs by wearing them.

 

[mary_bobo]

Either way, for either the Romney or Obama supporters to gloat would be most uncharitable on this Forum. Either way, we need accept the outcome and just push onward.

If Romney wins, no gloating here. Just a huge sigh of relief.

 

[ringil]

It would have been, but I went from New York to LIT via San Antonio, Bangkok,and San Bernardino. Sort of eased myself into it. I thought that I’d have to throw my shoes away when I got here lest people say that I was putting on airs by wearing them.

“No shirt, no shoes, no problem”.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

If Romney wins, no gloating here. Just a huge sigh of relief.

A sentiment that the liberals will share, if Obama comes through for them. I’ll be glad when the elections will be over, myself…

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

“No shirt, no shoes, no problem”.

Oh. So, you’ve seen what’s written on the Welcome to Arkansas signs.

 

[rlg94086]

Thank you for this.

I keep thinking about the Israelites and the cycle of sin, first silence, then servitude, supplication, salvation, and then silence again before sinning starts again.

I believe we are past the silent stage, some are in servitude (to the sins of abortion, sexual promiscuity). Some of us are in the supplication stage. There are many now praying for our country.

Exactly. The idea that God has “NOTHING” to do with things like elections is a deist viewpoint…not a Catholic viewpoint. I will continue to pray and vote my conscience in the hopes that I am cooperating with God’s will by making the right choices with the help of His Grace.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I probably jumped the gun here, but this term is used so many times to “allow” a person’s conscience to agree with voting pro-abortion. This term does not fit in that manner.

The writing of the bishop quoted used the term “proportionate reasons” not “prudential judgment”. There is a difference and the latter is used typically to decide whether an issue is “okay or not”, as in capital punishment. But again, I should not have nailed you with this because you were not using it this way, again I apologize.

When I say “prudential judgement” I do think that the decision is different for a Catholic in Ohio than one in perhaps California. In California, Romney is likely to have no chance (although one can always dispute that), so I would argue the decision to go third party there is different than in Ohio when there is a much higher likelihood that one’s vote really is going to matter.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Exactly. The idea that God has “NOTHING” to do with things like elections is a deist viewpoint…not a Catholic viewpoint. I will continue to pray and vote my conscience in the hopes that I am cooperating with God’s will by making the right choices with the help of His Grace.

If God were involved in elections, Hitler would never have been elected (he was, he didn’t just seize power) and in America, God would not have permitted pro-abortion politicians to have been elected and for that curse on our country to remain. And, He would have seen to it that “the right choice” in accordance with His will would always win.

Being a Deist or a Catholic has nothing to do with it IMO. Deists don’t care about abortion, so you can’t shift blame onto them.

My prayer vis-a-vis elections is that they be conducted honestly and that we do not have strife or riots, etc. in their aftermath.

 

[Indyann]

I don’t think GOD could be described as a Romney supporter or an Obama supporter.

Well, I guess he does “support” them both- but that’'s another theological structure.

You just don’t get it!!! No one is reducing God to a “Romney supporter or an Obama supporter”.

So you think the hundreds of thousands of prayers, rosaries, novenas, etc. are useless? Most of the Bishops around the country would disagree.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

So you think the hundreds of thousands of prayers, rosaries, novenas, etc. are useless? Most of the Bishops around the country would disagree.

Does God change His mind? I thought that was theologically impossible. God is Perfect. If He were to change His mind even if millions prayed for Him to do so, it would show that His original decision was wrong making Him less than perfect.

 

[ringil]

You just don’t get it!!! No one is reducing God to a “Romney supporter or an Obama supporter”.

So you think the hundreds of thousands of prayers, rosaries, novenas, etc. are useless? Most of the Bishops around the country would disagree.

Well if they are praying for Romney to win the election, though I don’t know the mind of God, I don’t think they would be especially effective.

If they are praying for the good of the nation and for peace then, yes, I believe in the power of prayer.

 

[qui_est_ce]

If God were involved in elections, Hitler would never have been elected (he was, he didn’t just seize power) and in America, God would not have permitted pro-abortion politicians to have been elected and for that curse on our country to remain. And, He would have seen to it that “the right choice” in accordance with His will would always win.
.

Rich, God is punishing people for their sins. Read the OT.

 

[ringil]

Does God change His mind? I thought that was theologically impossible. God is Perfect. If He were to change His mind even if millions prayed for Him to do so, it would show that His original decision was wrong making Him less than perfect.

But then there is the issue that prayers reach God in the fullness of time so I don’t how how pertinent a “before or after” concept can really be.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Well if they are praying for Romney to win the election, though I don’t know the mind of God, I don’t think they would be especially effective.

If they are praying for the good of the nation and for peace then, yes, I believe in the power of prayer.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Does God change His mind? I thought that was theologically impossible. God is Perfect. If He were to change His mind even if millions prayed for Him to do so, it would show that His original decision was wrong making Him less than perfect.

God doesn’t change his mind. He changes hearts.

 

[qui_est_ce]

But then there is the issue that prayers reach God in the fullness of time so I don’t how how pertinent a “before or after” concept can really be.

Very good ringil.

God is outside of time and space.

 

[oldcelt]

Very good ringil.

God is outside of time and space.

Precisely. God knows that events will take place, I just don’t believe that He controls any of it.

John

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Rich, God is punishing people for their sins. Read the OT.

By allowing Hitler and Stalin and Mao? That’s a lot of punishment, but I think I can agree with you. I cannot agree, however, that He can be persuaded to change His mind, which is why I think that prayers for secular ends are ineffective.
I
believe that"God, help me learn what You want" is a good prayer, but “God, make Romney (or whoever) win” is not.