Obama backs mosque near ground zero

[bluelake]

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf seems to have an irresistible attraction to extremists and terrorists, in spite of frequent declarations that he is a peacemaker and a “bridge builder.” He has stated that the Islamic community center and grand mosque he wants to build would be “about promoting integration, tolerance of difference, and community cohesion through arts and culture.”

So what was he doing at a 2007 conference in Indonesia of an international terrorist group seeking a global caliphate?

pajamasmedia.com/blog/terror-ties-ground-zero-imam-attended-hizb-ut-tahrir-conference/?singlepage=true

Rauf’s book has two different titles, one for non-Muslims and one for Muslims. In English, it is called What’s Right With Islam: A New Vision For Muslims and the West.

But in Muslim-ruled Malaysia — a country whose language Rauf knows well since he has spent a great deal of time there — the book was published as A Call To Prayer From the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America Post-9/11.

Of course Obama wants the Mosgue built. He’s a Muslim!

bluelake

 

[Alcrusader]

So the conclusion is: any patriot Christians that defend his country is a racist.

 

[Alcrusader]

Ok, for the umteenth time today I am forced to express my confusion. For one, I thought this fight was NOT about religion and for another, has anyone in this debate burned the Bible or made fun of Christ’s picture?

You, in particular, need a cease and desist warning…

Maybe my mate you don’t live in this world to know that burning the bible and cursing Jesus and his mothers is what we hear and see from many muslims around us.

take some links…
associatedcontent.com/article/285123/christians_in_gaza_fear_for_their_lives.html?cat=9
liveleak.com/view?i=f99_1208386409

 

[Alcrusader]

So not only is that a yes, you believe that all Muslims are racist (at least, all the Muslims who support Islam and or the Koran.) I think that it is clear not all Muslims are racist, and that your position requires no further response.

Koran is racist.
a practical muslim who follow the sharia and mohammad’s teachings IS racist.

So if their is muslims that don’t practice their faith** _ HERE ONLY YOU CAN SAY_** yes this muslim is not racist because he is not a practical Muslim.

Other than this case, I can’t see how muslims aren’t racist.

 

[Catherine_D]

Just who is the Imam behind this project?

Here is an excellent biography:

mediamatters.org/research/201008240027#rauf1

Media Matters is hardly a credible source.

 

[Kitsune633]

Koran is racist.
a practical muslim who follow the sharia and mohammad’s teachings IS racist.

So if their is muslims that don’t practice their faith** _ HERE ONLY YOU CAN SAY_** yes this muslim is not racist because he is not a practical Muslim.

Other than this case, I can’t see how muslims aren’t racist.

Well Alcrusader, I have found evidence of Racism, here they go, if you have them in Arabic, please post them.

**Ishaq:243 “I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!’ He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks… Allah sent down concerning him: 'To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom.” [9:61] “Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey’s.’”

Ishaq:144 “A rock was put on a slave’s chest. When Abu Bakr complained, they said, ‘You are the one who corrupted him, so save him from his plight.’ I will do so,’ said Bakr. 'I have a black slave, tougher and stronger than Bilal, who is a heathen. I will exchange him. The transaction was carried out.”

Qur’an 9:97 “The Arabs of the desert are the worst in unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger.”
Tabari II:11 “Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks.”

Tabari II:21 “Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham’s descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem’s, the latter would enslave them.”

Tabari IX:69 “Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah’s Cause. Killing him is a small matter to us.”

Bukhari: V9B89N256 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘You should listen to and obey your ruler even if he is a black African slave whose head looks like a raisin.’”

Ishaq:450 “It is your folly to fight the Apostle, for Allah’s army is bound to disgrace you. We brought them to the pit. Hell was their meeting place. We collected them there, black slaves, men of no descent.”

Ishaq:374 “The black troops and slaves of the Meccans cried out and the Muslims replied, ‘Allah destroy your sight, you impious rascals.’”

Bukhari:V4B52N137 “The Prophet said, ‘Let the negro slave of Dinar perish. And if he is pierced with a thorn, let him not find anyone to take it out for him… If he [the black slave] asks for anything it shall not be granted, and if he needs intercession [to get into paradise], his intercession will be denied.’” **

Found them on Prophet of Doom, Google it.

 

[4elise]

ROFL !! So you suppose I’m a retarded dude that can’t see the difference between a horse and a pig?

Who don’t GIVE FREEDOM, Doesn’t deserve FREEDOM.

Until Islam start giving freedom to us Christians], I don’t think they deserve a freedom to be given.

How have Muslims in this country (citizens, or those in the military perhaps) done anything to take your freedom? And what is it they have done?

The proposed center is in this country, where we have religious freedom.
Apparently, at least for you location has nothing to do with it - and to your credit at least you are willing to put that out there honestly - instead of hiding behind some other points.

 

[4elise]

Why are you being so illogical? Granting US citizens their constitutional right should have nothing to do with what is happening elsewhere in the world that too in some undemocratic country.

You would think so, wouldn’t you?

 

[4elise]

Media Matters is hardly a credible source.

I am curious Catherine which points you agree with as to why this Mosque should not be built. I ask because based on some of your posts I would be surprised if it were due to painting all Muslims with a broad brush, so I ask this in all respect.

 

[mrc4692]

Of course Obama wants the Mosgue built. He’s a Muslim!

bluelake

What would be the problem if her were a muslim? I’d like to know, because I do not see one myself.

 

[Pitcharan]

So the conclusion is: any patriot Christians that defend his country is a racist.

Those who spread hatred by indulging in “hate campaigns” are neither patriots nor christians by definition.

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

Media Matters is hardly a credible source.

But you see, they provided a source for each statement that they made. If you don’t think that they are drawing the correct conclusions, you can go to the source and see if they have made a fair summary. I think their assessment is for the most part sound.

 

[iamrefreshed]

WBC is expressing their constitutional rights. Like it or not. If you think they are ‘insensititive’ to the families of the dead soldiers why?

BTW, hatred is not an acceptable answer. That’s just you judging ‘insensitivity’.

 

[Robert_Bay]

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[seekerz]

So the conclusion is: any patriot Christians that defend his country is a racist.

What are you talking about? Who’s accusing who of racism and who exactly are the patriot Christians you refer to?

 

[Catherine_D]

I am curious Catherine which points you agree with as to why this Mosque should not be built. I ask because based on some of your posts I would be surprised if it were due to painting all Muslims with a broad brush, so I ask this in all respect.

Hi Elise,

If you go back several posts, you will see that I clearly stated that I did not have any personal stake in this project because I didn’t know anyone who died in the 9/11 attacks, but that I could understand the feelings of the families of those who did die. Many of those people feel this project would be a desecration. I don’t think anyone has to agree with grieving people in order to be sympathetic to their pain.

I am very tolerant of most things, except evil of course, and at the risk of sounding trite, I have friends and co-workers that are Muslim, so painting “all Muslims with a broad brush” is hardly the situation for me. In fact, one of the things I do find offensive is the painting of people, whoever they might be, with a that broad brush you’re talking about. Is that what you’re doing to me? It sure feels like it.

Just to illustrate about “painting with a broad brush”, and as I also stated before, Daisy Khan, the wife of Imam Rauf, went on record this past weekend with Christiane Amanpour to assert that all those who opposed the ground zero mosque were motivated by hate, something beyond “islamaphobia”, something more akin to anti-Semitism. This statement is offensive in many ways. First, it makes a moral equivalence of opposing a building project and the wholesale slaughter of Jewish people, something that has gone on for centuries, and which has been one of the effects of anti-Semitism. Of course that comparison is ridiculous on its face. Second, and perhaps more relevant to the topic at hand, it alleges that 70% of the American public, the percentage that oppose this project, are haters.

I would think that any American, even those who support this project, would find such a sweeping statement to be offensive. But I could be wrong about that. As for me, I would reject that being said by any person about one of my fellow citizens, whether or not I agreed with their position on some matter or another.

 

[seekerz]

Hi Elise,

If you go back several posts, you will see that I clearly stated that I did not have any personal stake in this project because I didn’t know anyone who died in the 9/11 attacks, but that I could understand the feelings of the families of those who did die. Many of those people feel this project would be a desecration. I don’t think anyone has to agree with grieving people in order to be sympathetic to their pain.

I am very tolerant of most things, except evil of course, and at the risk of sounding trite, I have friends and co-workers that are Muslim, so painting “all Muslims with a broad brush” is hardly the situation for me. In fact, one of the things I do find offensive is the painting of people, whoever they might be, with a that broad brush you’re talking about. Is that what you’re doing to me? It sure feels like it.

Just to illustrate about “painting with a broad brush”, and as I also stated before, Daisy Khan, the wife of Imam Rauf, went on record this past weekend with Christiane Amanpour to assert that all those who opposed the ground zero mosque were motivated by hate, something beyond “islamaphobia”, something more akin to anti-Semitism. This statement is offensive in many ways. First, it makes a moral equivalence of opposing a building project and the wholesale slaughter of Jewish people, something that has gone on for centuries, and which has been one of the effects of anti-Semitism. Of course that comparison is ridiculous on its face. Second, and perhaps more relevant to the topic at hand, it alleges that 70% of the American public, the percentage that oppose this project, are haters.

I would think that any American, even those who support this project, would find such a sweeping statement to be offensive. But I could be wrong about that. As for me, I would reject that being said by any person about one of my fellow citizens, whether or not I agreed with their position on some matter or another.

I understand and appreciate your position, although I would question whether anti-Semitism equates to the wholesale slaughter of Jewish people. Historically, anti-Semitism preceded and followed the holocaust, so while the latter was a result of the former, the two are not one and the same.

That 70% argument also does not convince me that a proportion of the opponents are not motivated by hatred or negativity. History has shown time and again, that a whole community or society can go wrong (either by action or inaction) on social or moral matters; that does not make each individual in such a society evil, it just makes most of them wrong on a particular issue.

 

[Catherine_D]

I understand and appreciate your position, although I would question whether anti-Semitism equates to the wholesale slaughter of Jewish people. Historically, anti-Semitism preceded and followed the holocaust, so while the latter was a result of the former, the two are not one and the same.

That 70% argument also does not convince me that a proportion of the opponents are not motivated by hatred or negativity. History has shown time and again, that a whole community or society can go wrong (either by action or inaction) on social or moral matters; that does not make each individual in such a society evil, it just makes most of them wrong on a particular issue.

Seekerz, I would ask you to reflect on the fact that Jews were slaughtered because of anti-Semitism long before the Holocaust, for thousands of years. For that reason, the comparison of opposition to a building project to anti-Semitism is completely misplaced and inappropriate.

As for the 70%, perhaps I was not clear. Daisy Khan labeled the entire 70% as being motivated by hate. In my opinion, that sort of “broad brush” is just as hateful as the hate she may believe she is describing. Yes, people can be wrong about this or that, and yes, some people are bigots, racists, or otherwise hateful, that will always be so. But the bigots, racists and general “haters” are a tiny fraction of the population of this country, not 70%. So to paint the entire opposition to this project as hate akin to anti-Semitism, bigotry, racism, or any of the other pejoratives already applied is, in itself, a form of bigotry and hatred. There’s no getting around it.

 

[Kokomoka]

I’ve been reading all these posts regarding this issue. Taking everything that has been said,
what do you think about the Port Authority denying the Orthodox to** rebuild** their church near Ground Zero? An already exsisting structure destroyed on that terrible day. Whay isn’t THIS an outrage? Why isn-]/-]'t the media telling their story?
Not to take away from this important debate…but this really makes me wonder.

Interesting in the rest of the story: Click keeptalkinggreece.com/2010/08/19/church-at-ground-zero-off-the-table-greek-americans-shocked/

If we are to have religious freedom in this country, it needs to be for all.

 

[seekerz]

I’ve been reading all these posts regarding this issue. Taking everything that has been said,
what do you think about the Port Authority denying the Orthodox to** rebuild** their church near Ground Zero? An already exsisting structure destroyed on that terrible day. Whay isn’t THIS an outrage? Why isn-]/-]'t the media telling their story?
Not to take away from this important debate…but this really makes me wonder.

Interesting in the rest of the story: Click keeptalkinggreece.com/2010/08/19/church-at-ground-zero-off-the-table-greek-americans-shocked/

If we are to have religious freedom in this country, it needs to be for all.

Maybe they’re out of the spotlight because there’s no one picketing outside their site? I have heard of the issue, but it hasn’t generated anywhere near as much debate as the mosque.