Obama nominates John Kerry for secretary of state

  • Thread starter Thread starter gilliam
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Kerry had every right to protest against the war he no longer believed in and against the atrocities which he himself saw. Heck, I’ve yet to meet a Vietnam Vet who didn’t see some horrible things carried out by US servicemen. Remember, we had a draft and many of those draftees, came right out of prison.

Blind patriotism in the sight of immorality is more dangerous than a soldier exposing the evils of an unjust war.

Jim
Right, he did have every right to protest against the war (and admit in taking part of war crimes?), just as we have every right to protest his nomination by our tin-eared president.

I’ve yet to meet a Vietnam Vet who didn’t loathe Kerry. Come to think of it, I’ve yet to meet any kind of active duty or vet who didn’t think Kerry was a uncouth, lying, political opportunist.

You like Kerry, we get that.

And yes, he deserves to be in the same category as Hanoi Jane.
 
Right, he did have every right to protest against the war (and admit in taking part of war crimes?), just as we have every right to protest his nomination by our tin-eared president.

I’ve yet to meet a Vietnam Vet who didn’t loathe Kerry. Come to think of it, I’ve yet to meet any kind of active duty or vet who didn’t think Kerry was a uncouth, lying, political opportunist.

You like Kerry, we get that.

And yes, he deserves to be in the same category as Hanoi Jane.
I didn’t say I liked Kerry, I just don’t hate him and won’t help bear false witness against him.

I also have respect for his service and for his courage to protest the war, when it was not politically expedient for him.

Other than that, I have issues with him, but none that would keep him from being a good Secretary of State.

Jim
 
Kerry had every right to protest against the war he no longer believed in and against the atrocities which he himself saw. Heck, I’ve yet to meet a Vietnam Vet who didn’t see some horrible things carried out by US servicemen. Remember, we had a draft and many of those draftees, came right out of prison.

Blind patriotism in the sight of immorality is more dangerous than a soldier exposing the evils of an unjust war.

Jim
Come on Jim, no one said he didn’t have the right to protest. What I objected to were his denegrating of his fellow troops, his dismissive attitude toward the medals representing all those wounded or killed in the line of duty. As to your claim you’ve not met a Vietnam vet who couldn’t report of atrocities…really? How disgusting to claim that virtually all of our troops were torturing, killing…cutting off ears, cutting of noses…sound familiar? I am sure that there were occasional such episodes but to claim this was commonplace, to attack the troops rather than those who sent them into battle, was both false and disgraceful.

Ridgerunner has the operative statement. Obama won. He can have anyone he wants that will get through the confirmation process which isn’t a very high bar based on past appointments.

Nothing you can say will convince me that all of the vets who claim Kerry’s statements were both overblown (if not false) and served only to promote Kerry’s political ambtions are telling lies. I believe the Swift Boat vets, not Kerry.

We’re stuck with him but it doesn’t mean every time I look at that pompous a** I won’t remember what he did and the damage he caused in furtherence of his own interests.

Lisa
 
I didn’t say I liked Kerry, I just don’t hate him and won’t help bear false witness against him.

I also have respect for his service and for his courage to protest the war, when it was not politically expedient for him.

Other than that, I have issues with him, but none that would keep him from being a good Secretary of State.

Jim
Where is the courage is accusing Soldiers of being rapists and murderers?
 
Where is the courage is accusing Soldiers of being rapists and murderers?
EXACTLY! It is SO very laughable that some celebrity or political figure or ambitious young man is considered COURAGEOUS for speaking out on a particular issue. This is not Iran or North Korea. There are exactly ZERO ramifications for such actions. Even virtually treasonous behavior (can we say Sean Penn, Hanoi Jane) is ignored by anyone in authority. Courageous…truly a laughable thought.

Further Kerry was hardly the lone voice crying in the wilderness. He happened to be one of the bigger mouthpieces at the time but the streets were filled with protestors albeit not as well groomed as Kerry. Even Walter Cronkite spoke against the Vietnam War in an era when journalists actually were.

I see him as a political opportuniist who doesn’t mind stepping on the heads and reputations of far better men, some of whom probably saved his sorry a** when he was wandering around with a camera crew in tow. Kerry serves Kerry. I see very little to admire in his past or his present actions.

Lisa
 
EXACTLY! It is SO very laughable that some celebrity or political figure or ambitious young man is considered COURAGEOUS for speaking out on a particular issue. This is not Iran or North Korea. There are exactly ZERO ramifications for such actions. Even virtually treasonous behavior (can we say Sean Penn, Hanoi Jane) is ignored by anyone in authority. Courageous…truly a laughable thought.

Further Kerry was hardly the lone voice crying in the wilderness. He happened to be one of the bigger mouthpieces at the time but the streets were filled with protestors albeit not as well groomed as Kerry. Even Walter Cronkite spoke against the Vietnam War in an era when journalists actually were.

I see him as a political opportuniist who doesn’t mind stepping on the heads and reputations of far better men, some of whom probably saved his sorry a** when he was wandering around with a camera crew in tow. Kerry serves Kerry. I see very little to admire in his past or his present actions.

Lisa
In those days it took courage to publicly support the war.

I dont really oppose him as Sec State as i believe a president should have wide latitude in who he puts in his cabinet-but there is nothing to admire in this man
 
Right, he did have every right to protest against the war (and admit in taking part of war crimes?), just as we have every right to protest his nomination by our tin-eared president.

I’ve yet to meet a Vietnam Vet who didn’t loathe Kerry. Come to think of it, I’ve yet to meet any kind of active duty or vet who didn’t think Kerry was a uncouth, lying, political opportunist.

You like Kerry, we get that.

And yes, he deserves to be in the same category as Hanoi Jane.
I’d like to know if Kerry was still active duty when he protested the war, and if he was, if he identified himself as a military member when he protested the war in public.

Edit: Never mind. I just looked it up, and it looks like he started his anti-war protests after he got out.
 
To be honest I am surprised at how worked up I still get when i think about what he did 40 years ago. I will have to admit that him being an abortion supporting catholics probably enters into it.
 
To be honest I am surprised at how worked up I still get when i think about what he did 40 years ago. I will have to admit that him being an abortion supporting catholics probably enters into it.
Support for abortion has become a centralized dogma of liberalism. And now they have a new doctrine of demons called “same-sex marriage”.
 
There were US soldiers who raped and murdered in Vietnam.

Stop turning a blind eye toward the reality of it.

Jim
There are soldiers who did the same in Afghanistan yet Obama still has us there. I smell hypocrisy on the part of Democrats.
 
There are soldiers who did the same in Afghanistan yet Obama still has us there. I smell hypocrisy on the part of Democrats.
Did Obama approve of those soldiers who raped and murdered in Afghanistan?

Please provide the source if you say he did.

Jim
 
There were US soldiers who raped and murdered in Vietnam.

Stop turning a blind eye toward the reality of it.

Jim
Jim you keep setting up strawmen. True, there were atrocities during the Vietnam War. There were atrocities during EVERY war. No one denies this. No one denies that Kerry had a right to protest the war either. Can we quit arguing against points that were not being made?

What is objected to was his inference, if not outright statement that such activities were commonplace and that they were characteristic of American GI’s. He seemed more interested in making a name for himself on the backs and reputations of the many thousands of troops who neither participated nor condoned such activities.

***These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit - the emotions in the room and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.***

Do you understand why I think Kerry was more than just another war protestor? Were you aware that this testimony to a great extent was totally debunked, that many of those testifying were found not to have even been in Vietnam, much less participated in such evil acts.

Futher, had Kerry ever admitted his brash actions, asking forgiveness for being a young hothead and that his dismay with the war had perhaps clouded his judgement, well it might have been a different story. Instead he shows up at the Democrat Convention, puffed up and proud, trying to parlay his limited military service into some kind of argument that he was best able to manage the Iraq War.

Like Estes Bob, reliving those days is disturbing. I see the whole 60s era, the protests, the turning away from tradition, faith and family as the beginning of the decline of our country. These aging hippies, yippies, protestors and progressives have left a disaster in their wake.

Lisa
 
Did the president approve of rape and murder during Vietnam?
Nope, but Kerry was speaking against the war in Vietnam.

You’re diverting the conversation by associating Obama with the rape and murders committed by US soldiers in Afghanistan.

It isn’t working.

Jim
 
Jim you keep setting up strawmen. True, there were atrocities during the Vietnam War. There were atrocities during EVERY war. No one denies this. No one denies that Kerry had a right to protest the war either. Can we quit arguing against points that were not being made?

What is objected to was his inference, if not outright statement that such activities were commonplace and that they were characteristic of American GI’s. He seemed more interested in making a name for himself on the backs and reputations of the many thousands of troops who neither participated nor condoned such activities.

***These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit - the emotions in the room and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.***

Do you understand why I think Kerry was more than just another war protestor? Were you aware that this testimony to a great extent was totally debunked, that many of those testifying were found not to have even been in Vietnam, much less participated in such evil acts.

Futher, had Kerry ever admitted his brash actions, asking forgiveness for being a young hothead and that his dismay with the war had perhaps clouded his judgement, well it might have been a different story. Instead he shows up at the Democrat Convention, puffed up and proud, trying to parlay his limited military service into some kind of argument that he was best able to manage the Iraq War.

Like Estes Bob, reliving those days is disturbing. I see the whole 60s era, the protests, the turning away from tradition, faith and family as the beginning of the decline of our country. These aging hippies, yippies, protestors and progressives have left a disaster in their wake.

Lisa
He was speaking about the results from the Winter Soldier Investigation where soldiers themselves testified to what they saw.

Remember, US soldiers in Vietnam, many were drafted out of prison and they took their ways into the US Military. I saw it when I was in the Marines back in 1971.

We also had the My Lia Massacre, as proof of US Soldiers committing mass murder.

You can deny this tool place, or try to justify it, but you’ll have a problem with Catholic teaching if you do.

Jim
 
There were US soldiers who raped and murdered in Vietnam.

Stop turning a blind eye toward the reality of it.
There are soldiers who did the same in Afghanistan yet Obama still has us there. I smell hypocrisy on the part of Democrats.
Did Obama approve of those soldiers who raped and murdered in Afghanistan?
Did the president approve of rape and murder during Vietnam?
Nope, but Kerry was speaking against the war in Vietnam.

You’re diverting the conversation by associating Obama with the rape and murders committed by US soldiers in Afghanistan.
As the above chain shows, you were the first to bring up rape and murder in war. But you don’t like tasting your own medicine.
 
He was speaking about the results from the Winter Soldier Investigation where soldiers themselves testified to what they saw.

Remember, US soldiers in Vietnam, many were drafted out of prison and they took their ways into the US Military. I saw it when I was in the Marines back in 1971.

We also had the My Lia Massacre, as proof of US Soldiers committing mass murder.

You can deny this tool place, or try to justify it, but you’ll have a problem with Catholic teaching if you do.

Jim
Yes and he simply repeated unsubstantiated (and later almost completely debunked) claims that did nothing but erroneously demean and degrade his fellow troops…and then some decades later he wonders why he is still hated and reviled? He painted these young patriots with a reputation that they did not deserve. That Kerry was happy to repeat these falsehoods, again WITHOUT ANY SUBSTANTIATION, indicates his objective was not to help the long suffering Vietnamese but for self aggrandizement and self promotion. Tell me Jim, how did this erroneous and demeaning testimony help the troops in the field? There are so many falsehoods about the Vietnam War and Vietnam Vets and they are accepted as truths because of men like John Kerry.

I’m curious where you got the information that “many” were drafted out of prison. I do not believe you. I tried to find ANY evidence of this and could not. Perhaps you too are using erroneous information to make your point.

Again, there are often atrocities in war. But they are RARE John Kerry unfairly destroyed the reputation of Vietnam Vets who didn’t deserve this treatment.

Lisa
 
He was speaking about the results from the Winter Soldier Investigation where soldiers themselves testified to what they saw.

Remember, US soldiers in Vietnam, many were drafted out of prison and they took their ways into the US Military. I saw it when I was in the Marines back in 1971.

We also had the My Lia Massacre, as proof of US Soldiers committing mass murder.

You can deny this tool place, or try to justify it, but you’ll have a problem with Catholic teaching if you do.

Jim
His testimony was not true. He didn’t testify on Mi Li He is exactly the kind of man Obama loves to associate with.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top