Obama plans push for immigration reform

[_Abyssinia]

And what do the Bishops say about this “amnesty”?

Are you guys Republicans first and Catholics second?

Odd question for you to be asking when you have consistently defended pro gay marriage and pro abortion politicians whose support for intrinsic evils flys in the face of Catholic teaching

Catholic answers has a radio show on spiritual implications of illegal immigration

Gay marriage and abortion are instrinsic evil, how to deal with immigration is prudential judgement. I do not think breaking the law to get into a country should be rewarded with citizenship. Children of illegal immigrants, who did not choose to illegally emmigrate, perhaps they deserve a pathway to citizenship.

Romans 13: 1 - 2

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves

Catechism of the Catholic Church 241

Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens

 

[Sarcelle]

What do the people waiting in line for visas get? Will they faster entry to the US?

It is one thing to talk about immigration reform, Obama said he would pursue in his 1st term and he did, and it is another thing to create and pass legislation

7 amnesty laws passed since 1986

1986 - Immigration and Reform Control Act (for estimated 2.7 million illegal immgirants)

1994 - Immigration and Nationality Act - Section 245(i) (for estimated 578000 illegal immigrants)

1997 - Extension of Section 245(i)

1997: The Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act (for estimated 1 million illegal immigrants)

1998 - The Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act (for estimated 125000 illegal immigrants)

2000 - Extension for estimated 400000 illegal immigrants who under 1986 act

2000 - The Legal Immigration Family Equity Act for estimated 900000 llegal immigrants under Section 245(i)

professional.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303768104577460771434938462.html

Obama supported ‘poison pill amendments’ that contributed to destroying immgiration reform in 2007

Exactly. This seems like a slap in the face for someone who is waiting in line to immigrate to the U.S. legally, seeing lawbreakers get rewarded.

 

[estesbob]

And what do the Bishops say about this “amnesty”?

Are you guys Republicans first and Catholics second?

If Cathoilics voted their Faith Obama wouldn’t be President.

 

[ishii]

Whatever your views on gay issues or the insurance mandate, you have to praise Obama for his immigration reform. This is the Christian thing to do.

No Robert - I have the biggest problem with Obama’s support for infanticide. It is such that I have a hard time praising him for anything. Aborting babies is not the Christian thing to do - and neither is glossing over the issue. Its the equivalent of “Gee, Obama is for legal infanticide, but oh well, he want to help immigrants.” I wonder how many of these immigrants will end up aborting at the abortion clinics supported by Obama?

Ishii

 

[ishii]

Obama immigration reform plan - otherwise known as the “keep Democrats in power” plan.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

The Church approved of immigration reform and what many around here would call “amnesty”.

Church teaching on abortion- yes, I agree!
On Gay marriage- Yes absolutely!
Immigration- Well, not so much.

Ringil, what official immigration policy is the Church telling us to support? On the otherhand, gay marriage is non-negotiable: NO. Legal abortion is non-negotiable: NO.

In other words, you are comparing apples and oranges - and being very misleading.

Ishii

 

[ringil]

If Cathoilics voted their Faith Obama wouldn’t be President.

THat’s a different issue. The issue before us is the reality of immigration reform and my question is “What do the Bishops have to say about immigration reform?”

What does the Pope have to say about how we should deal with immigrants?

 

[ringil]

Odd question for you to be asking when you have consistently defended pro gay marriage and pro abortion politicians whose support for intrinsic evils flys in the face of Catholic teaching

Catholic answers has a radio show on spiritual implications of illegal immigration

Gay marriage and abortion are instrinsic evil, how to deal with immigration is prudential judgement. I do not think breaking the law to get into a country should be rewarded with citizenship. Children of illegal immigrants, who did not choose to illegally emmigrate, perhaps they deserve a pathway to citizenship.

Romans 13: 1 - 2

Catechism of the Catholic Church 241

Not really the issue.

What do the Bishops have to say about about immigration? What does the totality of Church teaching have to say about immigration and national borders. Not just the sentence you post from the CCC?

I know, for instance, that the Bishops praised the DREAM act- which I echo as one of Obama greatest accomplishments.

 

[estesbob]

THat’s a different issue. The issue before us is the reality of immigration reform and my question is “What do the Bishops have to say about immigration reform?”

What does the Pope have to say about how we should deal with immigrants?

The Church acknowledge a country has a right to control its borders. They call for compassion for Immigrants and ask that families not be Broken up. The Church neither endorse nor oppose any partys immigration proposals.

Personally i think the idea we can deport 11 million is specious. I pretty much lean towards amnesty myself. Unlike abortion Catholics can disagree on this issue .

 

[_Abyssinia]

Not really the issue.

What do the Bishops have to say about about immigration? What does the totality of Church teaching have to say about immigration and national borders. Not just the sentence you post from the CCC?

I know, for instance, that the Bishops praised the DREAM act- which I echo as one of Obama greatest accomplishments.

nytimes.com/2010/10/27/world/europe/27pope.html

States must treat migrants with dignity but have the right to regulate immigration and defend their borders, Pope Benedict XVI said on Tuesday.

The pope made his comments in his message for the Roman Catholic Church’s World Day of Migrants and Refugees, touching on a subject that has caused tensions between the church and governments in European countries, including France and Italy.

He said everyone had the right to leave home to seek better conditions of life in another country.

”At the same time, states have the right to regulate migration flows and to defend their own frontiers, always guaranteeing the respect due to the dignity of each and every human person,” he said.

He said immigrants had the duty to integrate into their host countries and respect their laws and national identities.

The challenge, he added, was to ”combine the welcome due to every human being, especially when in need, with a reckoning of what is necessary for both the local inhabitants and the new arrivals to live a dignified and peaceful life”.

Catechism

2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.

Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens

Bishops have vocalised support for the DREAM act. You are not out line with the Church if you support amnesty or deportations for illegal immigrants. Catholics can have differing views

What is consistant whether you read Pope Benedict or Bishop’s statements on immigration is that immigrannts should be treated with dignity, regardless of their lawful circumstance

 

[Swiss_Guy]

He said that last term too. Notice how he “plans” and never does. Although I doubt Romney would’ve even planned…

 

[mary_bobo]

The Church acknowledge a country has a right to control its borders. They call for compassion for Immigrants and ask that families not be Broken up. The Church neither endorse nor oppose any partys immigration proposals.

Personally i think the idea we can deport 11 million is specious. I pretty much lean towards amnesty myself. Unlike abortion Catholics can disagree on this issue .

You are right that we cannot deport so many, however we do have the obligation to make our borders less porous. We cannot provide all the welfare for our own citizens at this point and I don’t know how we can take on more until we right the sinking ship. Further, I think we went through this when Reagan was president, and how did that amnesty turn out?

 

[Holly3278]

Personally, I am all for immigration reform. I am not sure I agree with how Obama is doing it but I do agree with immigration reform. It is a good thing to do and I believe the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops also supports immigration reform:

Frequently Asked Questions about Comprehensive Immigration Reform - USCCB

Catholic Social Teaching on Immigration - USCCB

Other Catholic resources on immigration:

Immigration and Inter-religious Dialogue - Vatican

Holy See Press Office - World Day for Migrants and Refugees - Vatican

MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI FOR THE WORLD DAY OF MIGRANTS AND REFUGEES (2013) - Vatican

MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI FOR THE WORLD DAY OF MIGRANTS AND REFUGEES (2012) - Vatican

 

[pnewton]

Precisely.

You sound like there is no agreement in the bishops, but some individual rogue opinions. This is not true. -]Much action has been taken/-] Many general, broad statements have been made as a group of shepherds giving guidance to the Church as a whole.

Yes, the action that has been taken is in the form of issuing statements. They offer specific guiding moral principles that from the point of view of politics may seem a broad statement, so I see where you are coming from.

 

[exoflare]

Why do people in this forum say “praying for you” when they encounter those they disagree with? Is it some passive-aggressive way of putting down the person? Does the public really need to know that you are praying for someone?

I’ve noticed this too and I agree with you that in most cases it’s really just meant as a subtle putdown that wasn’t given much thought. I mentioned the same thing earlier in the year in another thread:

One of the biggest SMH moments I always see is where the person being evangelized to clearly isn’t receptive at all, so the evangelizer gives up but thows in that last “well… I’ll pray for you!”

It’s like okay what was the point of adding that in, except to appear condescending and look even worse to someone who wasn’t listening to you in the first place. As if the prayer later on (IF they actually were serious about praying for the person, and not just posturing) won’t count unless you first sanctimoniously declare your intentions to the person being prayed for.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=693399&page=2

 

[SuperLuigi]

Whatever your views on gay issues or the insurance mandate, you have to praise Obama for his immigration reform. This is the Christian thing to do.

Is it? Because the Catholic Church recognizes the right to a sovereign border and a nation without borders is no nation at all.

And if you think what we do is bad, you ought look at Mexico’s immigration policy. Western tourists and the good people of Guatemala could fill you in on that.

Also, the democrats don’t “care” about Hispanics, they care about votes. Do you think that the union bosses in the public and private sector want a bunch of cheap immigrant labor to underbid their work?

Dick Morris put it best: Republicans want Hispanics here to work, Democrats want them here to vote. Give them work, but make ALL immigrants go through legalization channels to become full citizens.

The democrats won’t let that happen because their Black base is stagnant in population growth and liberal whites and the academic elite don’t generally breed.

 

[SuperLuigi]

The Church approved of immigration reform and what many around here would call “amnesty”.

Church teaching on abortion- yes, I agree!
On Gay marriage- Yes absolutely!
Immigration- Well, not so much.

Just be clear about what the Church says about immigration. There needs to be a solution for both the immigrants who are here and paying taxes and for border security.

Last time in 86, Republicans (Reagen) kept their end of the deal.

The democrats did not.

Also, you didn’t mention that abortion and marriage are issues along the lines of intrinsic evil where immigration is not.

 

[ishii]

The Church acknowledge a country has a right to control its borders. They call for compassion for Immigrants and ask that families not be Broken up. The Church neither endorse nor oppose any partys immigration proposals.

Personally i think the idea we can deport 11 million is specious. I pretty much lean towards amnesty myself. Unlike abortion Catholics can disagree on this issue .

I agree Estesbob. There is no way we can round up millions of illegals and deport them - and families shouldn’t be broken up. Any immigration reform needs to start with securing the borders and then giving the illegal aliens a path to citizenship - in that order.

Ishii

 

[pnewton]

I agree Estesbob. There is no way we can round up millions of illegals and deport them - and families shouldn’t be broken up. Any immigration reform needs to start with securing the borders and then giving the illegal aliens a path to citizenship - in that order.

Ishii

And, in my opinion, taxation or some sort of contribution to society. I have always been a big advocate of immigration as a way to strengthen America, but everyone needs to contribute. I think instead of amnesty, a fine as opposed to deportation that can be assessed to help defray the cost of social services.

I am more open to having lots of new citizens and I am open to any guests workers. However, those that come here as guest have a responsibility to their host country. That too is part of Catholic teaching on immigration.

 

[Seamus_L]

When all arguments have been made, the end result will still be, that those who are supported so strongly by the American bishops will become strong voting bloc for those most opposed to Catholic teaching.