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redrosetea
Guest
When you find the justice in murdering the unborn please tell us
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catharina
Guest
YOU have moved the thread off-topic.
You’ve done it effectively too.
Your opinion of what everyone thinks of FOCA doesn’t fit here.
Start a new thread, ok?
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elts1956
Guest
Then I guess the “rest of American Society” needs to read History and make some comparisons.
W
Wowbagger
Guest
Replace “Obama” with “Buchanan,” “abortion” with “slavery” and “Guatemala and Mexico” with… well, actually, I guess you don’t have to change those after all.
We lock up people who feel that their life circumstances have forced them into owning other human beings, even if they do it with a clear conscience. We should also We lock up people who feel that their life circumstances have forced them into killing other human beings… even if they do it with a clear conscience
Period. Does that pose legislative, police, and social safety net challenges? Heck yeah! Does that change the fact that President Obama is the most dangerous, evil President since the great slave presidents (ironic, given his race, no?)? No!
As a final note, recheck your abortion stats. Abortions dropped precipitously as a matter of absolute numbers and a matter of rates during the great Republican control of state and federal legislative houses from 1993-2000, and dropped considerably, though not as sharply, during the Bush administration. Though we won’t have finalized numbers from the abortion industry until roughly 2011 (long lag time, I don’t know why), we’re looking at a drop of 25%.
So explain to me again how BHO isn’t responsible for the abortion and stem cell harvesting that goes on in this country?
However, you have a good point that the pro-life movement has failed on the main point, and appears likely to continue failing into the foreseeable future. Any honest assessment of the movement, I feel, must acknowledge this. We can decrease abortions around the margins, and thank God for that good work we’ve done, but we can’t seem to end the damnable practice. That, I fear, might well take another civil war.
One in which I’d be entirely happy to fight.
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elts1956
Guest
redrosetea;4996216:
Dear Adams. Have you checked on whether abortion increased, or decreased after Roe vs. Wade was passed? What makes you think the pattern won’t be doubled when ALL regulations are rescinded?uch:
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elts1956
Guest
So you are definitely assured that bo is not “personally” responsible for picking up his pen and signing the Mexico Policy into extinction, he was not personally responsible for voting NO on the partial birth abortion ban? bo isn’t personally responsible as the “leader” or this country to lead its citizens in a moral direction? bo isn’t personally responsbile for laws protecting the lives of the citizens of the US from birth to natural death?
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sonofourlady
Guest
I was wondering when the pro-choice “Catholics” would speak up:
usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/03/26/distressed-that-obama-flap-will-overshadow-graduation-day-a-notre-dame-moms-view.html
usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/03/26/distressed-that-obama-flap-will-overshadow-graduation-day-a-notre-dame-moms-view.html
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Not_a_Die_Hard
Guest
Yes, I understand your message, but unfortunately we live in a world of reality.
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fix
Guest
There is nothing open minded about moral relativism. The Church’s “view” is Christ’s “view”.
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TMC
Guest
OK, at the risk of sidetracking this thread, I suggest you go read FOCA. Can you point to the language you refer to? I have read FOCA, and it does not exist. The one bishop I know of that has threatened to close the Catholic hospitals in his diocese if FOCA passes (and FOCA has not even been introduced) had to be told that there are no Catholic hospitals in his diocese to close.
FOCA would be a very bad law, if passed. There are a lot of reasons to oppose it. But it would not force anyone to perform abortions. Misstating the effect of the proposed legislation is not an effective way to oppose it.
I am not a Democrat. I have occassionally voted for Democrats, I have also voted for Republicans and independents. The whole point of my earlier posts is that politics is driving this, and it shouldn’t.
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TMC
Guest
The bishops are basing their statements on very poor legal analysis. So poor that its hard to believe that the legal analyst is either deliberately spinning his analysis, blinded by his own agenda.
FOCA was specifically designed to codify the holding of Roe v Wade in statute, as a guard against the repeal of Roe v Wade. It says very little, and provides no mechanism for interpretation or enforcement. But because it echoes exactly the language of Roe v Wade, and because the drafting history makes crystal clear that it is intended as a statutory buttress to Roe and the follow-on Supreme Court abortion jurisprudence, it is nonsensical to suppose that it grants any additional abortion rights above those granted by Roe and its progeny.
This discussion is emblematic of the current problems with the pro-life cause. FOCA would be a terrible law. There are many reasons to oppose it. But when pro-life leaders say things about FOCA that are clearly untrue, they lose credibility with the moderates they are trying to win over.
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redrosetea
Guest
No one that supports abortion is a moderate
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catharina
Guest
I agree.
Rather they are radicals who embrace the culture of death.
If they don’t change their view, that culture will kill them too.
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KathleenElsie
Guest
I can only imagine the GREAT GOOD that could come from them dis-inviting this man. It sure would make those that think choice can be Catholic sit up and take notice.I absolutely love this idea! If ND doesn’t rescind the invitation, then this would be the next best thing.
:extrahappy::extrahappy::extrahappy:
K
KathleenElsie
Guest
No BO can’t be blamed for all this.So you are definitely assured that bo is not “personally” responsible for picking up his pen and signing the Mexico Policy into extinction, he was not personally responsible for voting NO on the partial birth abortion ban? bo isn’t personally responsible as the “leader” or this country to lead its citizens in a moral direction? bo isn’t personally responsbile for laws protecting the lives of the citizens of the US from birth to natural death?
:whacky::whacky:It all TelePrompters fault. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
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KathleenElsie
Guest
Yes we live in a very real world. Please remember we were told that we live in the world but are not to be of the world. Pope Benedict XVI sits in the Chair of Peter and is the one that MUST teach the TRUTH. Faithful Believing Catholics are required by our faith to follow the teachings even when they are opposed to what the world is telling us.
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BGorski
Guest
That’s exactly the issue with President Obama, pal. The love of God, and how we as a country are responding to it!! God’s love gives us children, and re respond by killing 50 million mostly because they are inconvenient.
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catharina
Guest
For those who can’t or won’t understand the objection to honoring Obama at ND:
http://www.catholicbusinessjournal.biz/Blogs/?p=123
"by Ricky J. McRoskey
On May 17, 2009 President Barack Obama will ascend the steps of the Joyce Auditorium stage to accept Notre Dame’s highest honor as a doctor of laws, amid deafening applause. And doubtless, it will come after months of intense debate on messy things like academic freedom, the nature and mission of Catholic universities, and what it means to grant the podium to scholars and political figures of diverse views.
But all the months of scrutiny will abate at this awesome culmination, and graduating seniors and their families will savor the moment of seeing the first black president in our nation’s 232-year history address them with his message of hope and unity.
At that moment, I invite every member of the Notre Dame community to gaze northwest and ponder in their hearts what the Lady who glistens atop our Golden Dome is thinking. Here is my humble guess.
She will wonder whom the University is honoring.
She will remember the university’s first days, how she first came to be cloaked in gold above a lake, and how she stood overlooking an awesome experiment dedicated to the pursuit of faith and reason, a place of scholarship and service, of faith and action, of fellowship and intellect— a place chartered to glorify and honor her. She will remember how that awesome journey was wrought with intellectual questioning and diversity of thought and fierce debates, but that all of the intellectual vigor was ordered to the Truth that she literally held in her womb. She will remember how the university grew—how its embrace of academic excellence and faith came into harmony, attracting people of diverse backgrounds and differing thought, but how its love of diversity was subordinated to a love of honoring her.
She will remember that she is literally the Mother of her faithful—she is Notre Dame—and that in her is the embodiment of undying and selfless love. She gave life to the source of life, and to honor her is to honor her Son and life itself.
She will wonder why her university is honoring a man with a philosophy inimical to life. A man who believes the law should protect the right to abortion—a man who, in his first days of office, opened the nation’s coffers to international abortion organizations, who proclaimed that abortion is an issue “on which (he) will not yield.” She will remember the only article this man wrote for the most prestigious law review in the country, which stated that the law has an interest in safeguarding abortion to “prevent increasing numbers of children from being born in to lives of pain and despair.” She will remember, too, that her Son’s own life—the most influential life ever lived—was marked with great pain and agony.
She will remember that her University has given a forum for many scholars and leaders—but she will wonder why we are so honoring this one. She will wonder what part of the president’s philosophy of law and life is praiseworthy. And she will wonder what her university’s stewards consider a doctor of true law.
When President Obama steps down those steps holding the physical proof of her—her!—university’s most esteemed honor, she will remember the words of the school’s founder in 1844: “When this school, Our Lady’s school, grows a bit more, I shall raise her aloft so that, without asking, all men shall know why we have succeeded here. To that lovely Lady, raised high on a dome, a Golden Dome, men may look and find the answer.”
On May 17, 2009, Our Lady of the Lake will wonder in whom they have found that answer."
http://www.catholicbusinessjournal.biz/Blogs/?p=123
"by Ricky J. McRoskey
On May 17, 2009 President Barack Obama will ascend the steps of the Joyce Auditorium stage to accept Notre Dame’s highest honor as a doctor of laws, amid deafening applause. And doubtless, it will come after months of intense debate on messy things like academic freedom, the nature and mission of Catholic universities, and what it means to grant the podium to scholars and political figures of diverse views.
But all the months of scrutiny will abate at this awesome culmination, and graduating seniors and their families will savor the moment of seeing the first black president in our nation’s 232-year history address them with his message of hope and unity.
At that moment, I invite every member of the Notre Dame community to gaze northwest and ponder in their hearts what the Lady who glistens atop our Golden Dome is thinking. Here is my humble guess.
She will wonder whom the University is honoring.
She will remember the university’s first days, how she first came to be cloaked in gold above a lake, and how she stood overlooking an awesome experiment dedicated to the pursuit of faith and reason, a place of scholarship and service, of faith and action, of fellowship and intellect— a place chartered to glorify and honor her. She will remember how that awesome journey was wrought with intellectual questioning and diversity of thought and fierce debates, but that all of the intellectual vigor was ordered to the Truth that she literally held in her womb. She will remember how the university grew—how its embrace of academic excellence and faith came into harmony, attracting people of diverse backgrounds and differing thought, but how its love of diversity was subordinated to a love of honoring her.
She will remember that she is literally the Mother of her faithful—she is Notre Dame—and that in her is the embodiment of undying and selfless love. She gave life to the source of life, and to honor her is to honor her Son and life itself.
She will wonder why her university is honoring a man with a philosophy inimical to life. A man who believes the law should protect the right to abortion—a man who, in his first days of office, opened the nation’s coffers to international abortion organizations, who proclaimed that abortion is an issue “on which (he) will not yield.” She will remember the only article this man wrote for the most prestigious law review in the country, which stated that the law has an interest in safeguarding abortion to “prevent increasing numbers of children from being born in to lives of pain and despair.” She will remember, too, that her Son’s own life—the most influential life ever lived—was marked with great pain and agony.
She will remember that her University has given a forum for many scholars and leaders—but she will wonder why we are so honoring this one. She will wonder what part of the president’s philosophy of law and life is praiseworthy. And she will wonder what her university’s stewards consider a doctor of true law.
When President Obama steps down those steps holding the physical proof of her—her!—university’s most esteemed honor, she will remember the words of the school’s founder in 1844: “When this school, Our Lady’s school, grows a bit more, I shall raise her aloft so that, without asking, all men shall know why we have succeeded here. To that lovely Lady, raised high on a dome, a Golden Dome, men may look and find the answer.”
On May 17, 2009, Our Lady of the Lake will wonder in whom they have found that answer."
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