Obama to Give Commencement Speech at Notre Dame

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President Obama is not responsible for the number of abortions in this country. No president is responsible for that. It’s the people who have abortions who are responsible. President Bush was against abortion and that didn’t stop anyone from having one.

You’re pointing the finger at the wrong people. The anti-abortion industry has been a complete failure. The industry is determined to legislate behavior which won’t change notwithstanding any law. This is plainly evident in countries like Guatemala and Mexico where back-street abortions, illegal clinics, etc. thrive. The law didn’t change anyone’s mind in those countries. Why do you think it would change minds in this country???

If you can’t change the minds of women who have abortions, then you have failed. I guess you can lock them and their doctors up if you get a law passed to demonstrate your “success”, but I don’t think God or anyone else would be pleased with that.
The law is a teacher. If people think it is legal to kill others then it is no surprise they do it. If an authroity figure, the President no less, publicly claims there is a “right” to kill innocent people it is no surprise people do it.

There is no longer shame in publicly advocating such terrible things. Giving awards to people who support such things is not a good way to teach others what is really important.
 
Yep…as I have said before…if students do not hold to the beliefs of the Catholic Church, it is foolish to place all the blame for that on Notre Dame. If the parents are cafeteria Catholics, is it any wonder their children are the same way?

Again, I find it terribly sad that people are more worried about “extremists” ruining their darling child’s graduation, than about the failure of Notre Dame to uphold Catholic principles. (And since when do all people vocally opposed to abortion get slapped with the word “extremist?” I guess in a world of moral relativism having any strong belief is “extreme.”)
 
The school is called Our Lady; shouldn’t its behavior reflect Mary’s following the will of God and having His Son illegitimately in a town of 250 people knowing that she would suffer much scandal? What would Mary think of someone who advocated for the ‘right’ to take life in the womb speaking at an institution bearing her name?
 
Replace “Obama” with “Buchanan,” “abortion” with “slavery” and “Guatemala and Mexico” with… well, actually, I guess you don’t have to change those after all.

We lock up people who feel that their life circumstances have forced them into owning other human beings, even if they do it with a clear conscience. We should also We lock up people who feel that their life circumstances have forced them into killing other human beings… even if they do it with a clear conscience

Period. Does that pose legislative, police, and social safety net challenges? Heck yeah! Does that change the fact that President Obama is the most dangerous, evil President since the great slave presidents (ironic, given his race, no?)? No!

As a final note, recheck your abortion stats. Abortions dropped precipitously as a matter of absolute numbers and a matter of rates during the great Republican control of state and federal legislative houses from 1993-2000, and dropped considerably, though not as sharply, during the Bush administration. Though we won’t have finalized numbers from the abortion industry until roughly 2011 (long lag time, I don’t know why), we’re looking at a drop of 25%.

So explain to me again how BHO isn’t responsible for the abortion and stem cell harvesting that goes on in this country?

However, you have a good point that the pro-life movement has failed on the main point, and appears likely to continue failing into the foreseeable future. Any honest assessment of the movement, I feel, must acknowledge this. We can decrease abortions around the margins, and thank God for that good work we’ve done, but we can’t seem to end the damnable practice. That, I fear, might well take another civil war.

One in which I’d be entirely happy to fight. 😉
adamsapple is not responding. I asked for clarification once and wrote something similar to the above once, with no response. Maybe it’s because the thread is all over the place at this point, which causes confusion. I was interested in a response, however.
 
OK, at the risk of sidetracking this thread, I suggest you go read FOCA. Can you point to the language you refer to? I have read FOCA, and it does not exist. The one bishop I know of that has threatened to close the Catholic hospitals in his diocese if FOCA passes (and FOCA has not even been introduced) had to be told that there are no Catholic hospitals in his diocese to close.

FOCA would be a very bad law, if passed. There are a lot of reasons to oppose it. But it would not force anyone to perform abortions. Misstating the effect of the proposed legislation is not an effective way to oppose it.

I am not a Democrat. I have occassionally voted for Democrats, I have also voted for Republicans and independents. The whole point of my earlier posts is that politics is driving this, and it shouldn’t.
I have read FOCA, too. I’m afraid it’s you who are mistaken, TMC. Let me enlighten you. As the Wikipedia article linked below accurately summarizes, FOCA would prohibit “federal, state, or local governmental entit[ies] from denying or interfering with a woman’s right to” abortion and would confer a right to sue if any did so. That, my friend, is the part of FOCA that has the Catholic Church, conscientious medical personnel, and pro-lifers everywhere gravely concerned. Why? Because all of the protections, all the limits - such as they are - on the abortion “right” that have been hard-won over many years, and that the Supreme Court has upheld as Constitutional, would be swept aside by FOCA. They’d either be repealed or enjoined. These include limits on public funding, parental notification requirements, informed consent laws, waiting periods, and most significantly for this discussion, conscience protections. Let me explain further. Doctors, nurses, other health care professionals, and hospitals - yes, even Catholic hospitals - have to be licensed to operate. Those licenses are issued by State and local governmental entities. Here’s the very legitimate concern: Armed with FOCA, abortion-rights zealots would sue medical licensing boards to overturn any conscience protections because they “interfere” with a woman’s right to abortion. The great and growing concern of Big Abortion is the dwindling availability of medical personnel who want to have anything whatever to do with abortion. Currently, one can be licensed as an Ob-Gyn without having to perform abortions or be trained to perform abortions during one’s residency or schooling. Currently, a Catholic hospital can be licensed to provide obstetrical and gynecological care without having to offer abortions. These limits, however, are “bones in the throat” of Planned Parenthood and NARAL. They and their accolytes would most certainly sue licensing bodies, should FOCA be passed, to remove these “interferences” with the abortion “right.” The result will be that if you want a medical license, you have to be trained in, and offer, abortion.

Which brings us back to this thread. President Obama stands pledged to sign FOCA if it is passed. President Obama should not be honored as commencement speaker at any Catholic University and certainly not Our Lady’s University.

Here’s the FOCA link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Choice_Act
And here’s a quote from the link in case anyone has difficulty opening it (or in case it gets altered or removed):
The Freedom of Choice Act (H.R. 1964/S. 1173) was a bill in the 110th United States Congress which “declares that it is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child; terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability; or terminate a pregnancy after viability when necessary to protect her life or her health.
It prohibits a federal, state, or local governmental entity from denying or interfering with a woman’s right to exercise such choices; or discriminating against the exercise of those rights in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information. Provides that such prohibition shall apply retroactively.
It also authorizes an individual aggrieved by a violation of this Act to obtain appropriate relief, including relief against a governmental entity, in a civil action.”
Earlier versions of the bill were introduced in 1989 and 1993.
 
This reinforces the impression of many that the American Catholic church is an apparatchik basically of the Democratic party.

Rush mentioned this briefly today.

He simply said that the keynote speaker at Notre Dame beleives in infanticide.

Just more bad publicity for the US church.

Reminds me of a friend who saw the Epic CatholicsComeHome commercial.

He laughed at the point where it said the church stands for marriage and life and family.

The reality on the ground is not what the Epic ad, IMO, tries to present as the Catholic church.
 
I have read FOCA, too. I’m afraid it’s you who are mistaken, TMC. Let me enlighten you. As the Wikipedia article linked below accurately summarizes, FOCA would prohibit “federal, state, or local governmental entit[ies] from denying or interfering with a woman’s right to” abortion and would confer a right to sue if any did so. That, my friend, is the part of FOCA that has the Catholic Church, conscientious medical personnel, and pro-lifers everywhere gravely concerned. Why? Because all of the protections, all the limits - such as they are - on the abortion “right” that have been hard-won over many years, and that the Supreme Court has upheld as Constitutional, would be swept aside by FOCA. They’d either be repealed or enjoined. These include limits on public funding, parental notification requirements, informed consent laws, waiting periods, and most significantly for this discussion, conscience protections. Let me explain further. Doctors, nurses, other health care professionals, and hospitals - yes, even Catholic hospitals - have to be licensed to operate. Those licenses are issued by State and local governmental entities. Here’s the very legitimate concern: Armed with FOCA, abortion-rights zealots would sue medical licensing boards to overturn any conscience protections because they “interfere” with a woman’s right to abortion. The great and growing concern of Big Abortion is the dwindling availability of medical personnel who want to have anything whatever to do with abortion. Currently, one can be licensed as an Ob-Gyn without having to perform abortions or be trained to perform abortions during one’s residency or schooling. Currently, a Catholic hospital can be licensed to provide obstetrical and gynecological care without having to offer abortions. These limits, however, are “bones in the throat” of Planned Parenthood and NARAL. They and their accolytes would most certainly sue licensing bodies, should FOCA be passed, to remove these “interferences” with the abortion “right.” The result will be that if you want a medical license, you have to be trained in, and offer, abortion.

Which brings us back to this thread. President Obama stands pledged to sign FOCA if it is passed. President Obama should not be honored as commencement speaker at any Catholic University and certainly not Our Lady’s University.

Here’s the FOCA link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Choice_Act
And here’s a quote from the link in case anyone has difficulty opening it (or in case it gets altered or removed):
The Freedom of Choice Act (H.R. 1964/S. 1173) was a bill in the 110th United States Congress which “declares that it is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child; terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability; or terminate a pregnancy after viability when necessary to protect her life or her health.
It prohibits a federal, state, or local governmental entity from denying or interfering with a woman’s right to exercise such choices; or discriminating against the exercise of those rights in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information. Provides that such prohibition shall apply retroactively.
It also authorizes an individual aggrieved by a violation of this Act to obtain appropriate relief, including relief against a governmental entity, in a civil action.”
Earlier versions of the bill were introduced in 1989 and 1993.
Pardon me if I decline to defer to wikipedia’s statutory interpretation skills.
 
Don’t get yourselves in such a dither. Notre Dame will cave. Not because of protests or prayers, or intellectual discussion, but because of money.
Not if it becomes government funded like they’re doing with the Banks, talking about doing with the MSM and due to FOCA, if it becomes law, they’ll take over the Catholic hospitals. Ironic that ND are giving him honors in LAW!
 
It’s kind of aggravating that none of these MSM articles are talking to students who really oppose Obama’s invitation. It makes it look as if only outside groups are upset over this and that’s really misleading.
They’re Obama pravda, soon to be bought and paid for, by our tax dollars. Any dissenting voices will be silenced.
 
To the students and parents of Notre Dame. I join with you in your just outrage at the decision of the University to award its highest honor to our Pro-Death President. If you truly want to make a difference:
  1. You should provide every one in attendance with a Rosary and you should pray at least a decade at the commencement for the souls of the 50 million murdered lives. Please state that the decade is for those murdered in the abortion death chambers.
  2. I would also ask our President and all in attendance to stand and bow their heads when the prayer is said in honor of the Blessed Virgin Mary out of respect for the honorary degree he accepts.
  3. Finally, I would provide him with a Rosary and scapular along with his degree.
PRAYER TO THE BLESSED MOTHER BY THOUSANDS WILL RISE ABOVE ALL

To the Valedictorian, May God and the Holy Spirit guide you to do the courageous work of standing up for life in your address.
 
It’s kind of aggravating that none of these MSM articles are talking to students who really oppose Obama’s invitation. It makes it look as if only outside groups are upset over this and that’s really misleading.
From a recent newspaper article on this:
As of 2 p.m. Thursday, The Observer, the student newspaper, had received 612 letters about Obama’s appearance — 313 from alumni and 299 from current students.
Seventy percent of the alumni letters opposed having Obama giving the speech, while 73 percent of student letters supported his appearance. Among the 95 seniors who wrote letters, 97 percent supported the president’s invitation
To someone outside the university, it would appear that most of the opposition is coming from outside, while ND students are mostly supportive. Do you believe otherwise?

For what it’s worth, I only know one ND student, and he’s a total Obama supporter. I know more alumni of ND, and all oppose Obama.
 
I know two ND students, neither a senior. One supports Obama, the other does not.

However, I would be surprised if the majority of the student body did not support this.

EDIT: I love Wikipedia, and I strongly believe in its ability to quickly convey useful information. However, I don’t think it’s useful in this case?

Why not? Because I helped write that article as an anon editor (I have considerable wikisperience), and I know several of the other editors who contributed to the FOCA article. There are, of course, people on both sides slugging it out in there, but it’s too unstable, especially right now, for it to be counted on for sound legal or political analysis. You’re going to have to dive into the footnotes and cite those to support your case.

That being said, the text of the bill does seem to–at the very least–give a very big opening for a great big lawsuit against Catholic hospitals for refusing to allow abortions. I wouldn’t call it a sure thing, but I do think FOCA makes it likely that many or most Catholic hospitals in most or all jurisdictions would be forced to close.
 
From a recent newspaper article on this:

To someone outside the university, it would appear that most of the opposition is coming from outside, while ND students are mostly supportive. Do you believe otherwise?

For what it’s worth, I only know one ND student, and he’s a total Obama supporter. I know more alumni of ND, and all oppose Obama.
I had not seen that before I made my post. It does make me terribly sad to think I’ve probably overstated the case for Notre Dame students. 😦 I’ll admit I hang out mostly with grad students, who are mostly not Catholic and very liberal. Apparently the undergraduate population isn’t much better.

Did you happen to see the thread that was posted about the Notre Dame student groups organizing to protest Obama, though? A bright spot in the darkness for sure.
 
For those who can’t or won’t understand the objection to honoring Obama at ND:

catholicbusinessjournal.biz/Blogs/?p=123

"by Ricky J. McRoskey

On May 17, 2009 President Barack Obama will ascend the steps of the Joyce Auditorium stage to accept Notre Dame’s highest honor as a doctor of laws, amid deafening applause. And doubtless, it will come after months of intense debate on messy things like academic freedom, the nature and mission of Catholic universities, and what it means to grant the podium to scholars and political figures of diverse views.

But all the months of scrutiny will abate at this awesome culmination, and graduating seniors and their families will savor the moment of seeing the first black president in our nation’s 232-year history address them with his message of hope and unity.

At that moment, I invite every member of the Notre Dame community to gaze northwest and ponder in their hearts what the Lady who glistens atop our Golden Dome is thinking. Here is my humble guess.

She will wonder whom the University is honoring.

She will remember the university’s first days, how she first came to be cloaked in gold above a lake, and how she stood overlooking an awesome experiment dedicated to the pursuit of faith and reason, a place of scholarship and service, of faith and action, of fellowship and intellect— a place chartered to glorify and honor her. She will remember how that awesome journey was wrought with intellectual questioning and diversity of thought and fierce debates, but that all of the intellectual vigor was ordered to the Truth that she literally held in her womb. She will remember how the university grew—how its embrace of academic excellence and faith came into harmony, attracting people of diverse backgrounds and differing thought, but how its love of diversity was subordinated to a love of honoring her.

She will remember that she is literally the Mother of her faithful—she is Notre Dame—and that in her is the embodiment of undying and selfless love. She gave life to the source of life, and to honor her is to honor her Son and life itself.

She will wonder why her university is honoring a man with a philosophy inimical to life. A man who believes the law should protect the right to abortion—a man who, in his first days of office, opened the nation’s coffers to international abortion organizations, who proclaimed that abortion is an issue “on which (he) will not yield.” She will remember the only article this man wrote for the most prestigious law review in the country, which stated that the law has an interest in safeguarding abortion to “prevent increasing numbers of children from being born in to lives of pain and despair.” She will remember, too, that her Son’s own life—the most influential life ever lived—was marked with great pain and agony.

She will remember that her University has given a forum for many scholars and leaders—but she will wonder why we are so honoring this one. She will wonder what part of the president’s philosophy of law and life is praiseworthy. And she will wonder what her university’s stewards consider a doctor of true law.

When President Obama steps down those steps holding the physical proof of her—her!—university’s most esteemed honor, she will remember the words of the school’s founder in 1844: “When this school, Our Lady’s school, grows a bit more, I shall raise her aloft so that, without asking, all men shall know why we have succeeded here. To that lovely Lady, raised high on a dome, a Golden Dome, men may look and find the answer.”

On May 17, 2009, Our Lady of the Lake will wonder in whom they have found that answer."
Beautiful, just beautiful. :angel1::angel1:
 
It’s kind of aggravating that none of these MSM articles are talking to students who really oppose Obama’s invitation. It makes it look as if only outside groups are upset over this and that’s really misleading.
The Faithful soon to be grads. and alumnus of NDU are fighting back. Go to these websites.

lifenews.com/state3988.html

Notre Dame Students Condemn University President for Allowing Obama Speech
by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
March 25, 2009

AND
ndresponse.com/

This second website is NDU pro life student’s web ads. and ads. of the Pro Life groups on campus that are supporting them. There are other links there also. I hope everyone on these boards gives them the thumbs up for doing what is RIGHT AND MORAL. I have suggested the grads. hold up red envelopes, collect them in a basket and give them to bo. That would be quiet and dignified and just maybe he :rolleyes: will get the message. :banghead::banghead:

Do write and give your support to them. Bless their hearts. It gives me hope for the world.
 
We want to emphasize that we are not attacking the office of the President, but taking issue with his moral stances.
In the end, I hope that the response of the ND pro-life students is strong, apparent and above all dignified. Candlelight vigils, open public prayers for the unborn and for the souls of those who persecute them, and other quintessentially Catholic modes of communication show ample respect for the office of President, while at the same time expressing the horror of the office being filled with the only President with a voting record in favor of not just abortion of the unborn, but infanticide of the unwanted.

There is no dignity in catcalls, turning ones back or the thousand and one other ways that leftists students have disrespected the office of president in former times. As troubling as it may seem to go into this fight as it were with one hand tied behind one’s back, and deferring from the same effective tactics used against other presidents, there is dignity in restraint, in allowing the prayers of the unborn rise like a cloud from heaven in the smoke of the candles, and on the lips of the faithful.

There is more than one way for the Irish to fight this.
 
In the end, I hope that the response of the ND pro-life students is strong, apparent and above all dignified. Candlelight vigils, open public prayers for the unborn and for the souls of those who persecute them, and other quintessentially Catholic modes of communication show ample respect for the office of President, while at the same time expressing the horror of the office being filled with the only President with a voting record in favor of not just abortion of the unborn, but infanticide of the unwanted.

There is no dignity in catcalls, turning ones back or the thousand and one other ways that leftists students have disrespected the office of president in former times. As troubling as it may seem to go into this fight as it were with one hand tied behind one’s back, and deferring from the same effective tactics used against other presidents, there is dignity in restraint, in allowing the prayers of the unborn rise like a cloud from heaven in the smoke of the candles, and on the lips of the faithful.

There is more than one way for the Irish to fight this.
Unfortunately they can’t have a candlelight vigil at the commencement, so they will have to come up with something else. Red envelopes. Quiet, BUT visual. 😃
 
In the end, I hope that the response of the ND pro-life students is strong, apparent and above all dignified. Candlelight vigils, open public prayers for the unborn and for the souls of those who persecute them, and other quintessentially Catholic modes of communication show ample respect for the office of President, while at the same time expressing the horror of the office being filled with the only President with a voting record in favor of not just abortion of the unborn, but infanticide of the unwanted.

There is no dignity in catcalls, turning ones back or the thousand and one other ways that leftists students have disrespected the office of president in former times. As troubling as it may seem to go into this fight as it were with one hand tied behind one’s back, and deferring from the same effective tactics used against other presidents, there is dignity in restraint, in allowing the prayers of the unborn rise like a cloud from heaven in the smoke of the candles, and on the lips of the faithful.

There is more than one way for the Irish to fight this.
I had not seen that before I made my post. It does make me terribly sad to think I’ve probably overstated the case for Notre Dame students. 😦 I’ll admit I hang out mostly with grad students, who are mostly not Catholic and very liberal. Apparently the undergraduate population isn’t much better.

Did you happen to see the thread that was posted about the Notre Dame student groups organizing to protest Obama, though? A bright spot in the darkness for sure.
See my post 217 with links to the student organizations. 👍
 
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