Obama vs Romney, who are you voting for and why?

[MichaelTDoyle]

What you are ignoring either purposefully or negligently is that Romney is not planning on implementing his beliefs. Rather Obama is systematically removing religion and especially the Catholic Church from society. Under Obama, within the next four years, the Catholic Church will have to sell its hospitals and no longer be a healthcare provider. If that alone doesn’t make you wake up and smell the totalitarianism I don’t know what will.

This.

How is Obama not an anti-Christ? On every issue he attacks the true Church.

He has spurred the middle east into flames with a feckless and belligerent foreign policy that is resulting in increased persecution and increased violence against Christians.

He has declared war on the unborn to the point of opposing BAIPA when he was a senator. He refused his duty by failing to enforce DOMA.

He subverted his duty by depriving Americans work through over regulation by the EPA resulting in higher energy prices which persecute the poor. Coal mines are shutting down. Oil drilling permits were frozen. Tax money wasted on cronies and unscientific boondoggles.

He has recklessly passed healthcare legislation-one sixth of the economy–without even understanding the bill. It is an attack on subsidiarity and an open door to euthanasia.

“You belong to the government.” No, I belong to Jesus and if you do too, you must oppose him. The only way to effectively oppose him is to vote the opponent.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Exactly. As I’ve stated above, we have a right, and obligation, to protest. But do we have a right to force our beliefs on them? I pray every night for the end to abortion, but I pray that people will all unite one day in agreement.

I am just a 19 year old thinking aloud though. These are my opinions, and I stand by them like I stand by my Church.

So its okay to gas Jews so long as we don’t all agree it is wrong? After all we don’t have a right to force our belief onto people who think Jews are not human.

Is the unborn child a human?

If the answer is yes–if Jesus was fully man and fully God in the womb–then the analogy holds.

 

[Dawnia]

I am not saying they are innocent by any means. I’m saying they are human and deserve to be treated as such. If your son or daughter or cousin or mother or father or friend etc… was convicted and found guilty of murdering three people in cold blood, and they confessed, do they deserve death? No. They need help, through therapy, in jail, maybe never to be released into society.

But who are we to say that someone cannot change? Look at the disciples? Are they without sin? Every human sins, but we can change with effort and will power. I am not saying that the death penalty is entirely wrong, but the death penalty has been given to those who haven’t deserved it in the past, if only in 1/100 cases (this statistic is based on nothing just as an example).

What I’m saying is the loss of an innocent life is a loss of an innocent life regardless of the age, no matter the cause.

So the guy who broke into a home a few miles from my house, raped a 3 year old & killed her is just a poor innocent guy who needs therapy? Are you serious?

Some people deserve whatever punishment is dished out, including the death penalty.

 

[JimG]

Exactly. As I’ve stated above, we have a right, and obligation, to protest. But do we have a right to force our beliefs on them? I pray every night for the end to abortion, but I pray that people will all unite one day in agreement.

I am just a 19 year old thinking aloud though. These are my opinions, and I stand by them like I stand by my Church.

Well, you have indicated that you oppose the death penalty, and I agree with you in general. Do you believe that you would have the right to force your beliefs on others who don’t share them by outlawing the death penalty?

You probably belive that theft and assault ought to be outlawed as well; and in fact there are laws against them. We are forcing our beliefs on those who think that theft and assault are their right.

 

[dreamurlife]

So its okay to gas Jews so long as we don’t all agree it is wrong? After all we don’t have a right to force our belief onto people who think Jews are not human.

Is the unborn child a human?

If the answer is yes–if Jesus was fully man and fully God in the womb–then the analogy holds.

No, it is not ok to gas Jews, and yes the unborn child is a human. But let’s take that example. How did we stop the Nazis? Did we force our way into the internment camps and forcefully shove the Nazis into jail for what they did? No. Catholic priests during this time prayed and converted German Nazis, (by their own free will), to the Faith and saved what lives they could.

The Knights of Columbus during this time set up refugee centers for those fleeing from France in protest in England.

We have to teach and love our enemy, not persecute them for their beliefs. God takes care of those that are faithful to Him. Especially His children.

 

[buffalo]

Exactly. As I’ve stated above, we have a right, and obligation, to protest. But do we have a right to force our beliefs on them? I pray every night for the end to abortion, but I pray that people will all unite one day in agreement.

I am just a 19 year old thinking aloud though. These are my opinions, and I stand by them like I stand by my Church.

It is our obligation to help them see the truth.

Truth with Love

not

Truth without love
or
Love without truth.

The Catholic proposition serves the common good best.

 

[edwest2]

dreamurlife;9822738:

I’m tossed up as to who to vote for. As a practicing Catholic, I am pro-life all the way. I am also against any kind of government that wants to support abortion through funding or any other way. However, Republicans are generally in favor of the death penalty against convicts, and so does Mitt Romney, according to this and other videos/documents… rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/10/romney-town-hall-crowd-applauds-death-penalty/

As a practicing Catholic who is pro-life, and supports life from the MOMENT of conception UNTIL the death of an individual, voting for Republicans, who are pro-life pro-death penalty, or voting for Democrats, who are pro-choice and anti-death penalty, it seems as though I can do neither.

Both sides are killing innocents. Republicans kill the convicted, and Democrats kill the unborn. Both are wrong to me. Jesus forgave all who sinned against Him, yet He chose to not give in to popular demand at the time. I support the pro-life statuettes of the Republicans, and am sure Mitt Romney will do a good job pushing his party’s agenda into Congress. I support the idea of the Democrats helping release innocently convicted individuals from jail and their methods of helping the poor. Sure, I don’t agree with everything that he has done, but he is merely human.

Pope Benedict XVI “There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.”

From Priests for Life:

politicalresponsibility.com/votingstatement.htm

Hope this helps.
Ed

 

[JimG]

No, it is not ok to gas Jews, and yes the unborn child is a human. But let’s take that example. How did we stop the Nazis? Did we force our way into the internment camps and forcefully shove the Nazis into jail for what they did? No. Catholic priests during this time prayed and converted German Nazis, (by their own free will), to the Faith and saved what lives they could.

The Knights of Columbus during this time set up refugee centers for those fleeing from France in protest in England.

We have to teach and love our enemy, not persecute them for their beliefs. God takes care of those that are faithful to Him. Especially His children.

We did more than that. We declared war on Germany and fought a bloody war across the European continent. And when at last some of the death camps were captured by Allied forces, the General in charge of the operation rounded up German citizens from a nearby town and forced them to walk through the camp to see the dead Jews and the gas chambers.

 

[gus]

I refuse to vote for President.
It dawned on me that unless you live in a swing state your vote is meaningless.
What’s the point?
If you feel empowered that’s your perogitive.
If Jack the Ripper were the Repuplican nominee he would carry Ariz. The same is true of Democratic States.
Just because my position is cynical.doesn’t mean I’m wrong
I will vote for local candidates and most importantly the propositions. I will review them and the pro and con arguments.

 

[Lapey]

Since the biggest maker or breaker for me in elections is the candidates position on organized labor, I’ll be casting my vote for Barrack Obama. I just don’t trust Romney given his track record on organized labor.

So the labor movement, unions, are more important than abortion, euthenasia, same sex unions??? Why?

 

[dreamurlife]

Dawnia- I’m saying to forgive that person and to love them. That DOES NOT mean FORGET what they did. I said the death penalty CAN be used against those who are 100% convicted and found guilty of a crime. But here is a list of people I want to look at…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates

These are all people killed for crimes they did NOT commit.

Those who did commit a crime deserve their fate, but what of these men and women?

JimG- I agree with you on that matter. But theft and assault have been issues since Jesus’ time. Abortion, unfortunately, is an issue many people don’t face themselves. It is an issue for a “modern” generation. It is a “different” issue because unlike theft and assault, which are universal in their understanding, abortion is something that some people like to think is their choice. Most people who think abortion is viable believe there are no other options for them, they need to be taught about their choices and educated and learn about their mistakes. I’m not disagreeing with anyone that abortion is an ever growing threat in our nation, and something needs to be done about it.

My argument is not to “not vote” because Republicans in general support the death penalty, but just to think about the cause and effect of our actions. I am voting for Romney, but I’d rather support an individual who was 100% pro-life, against the death penalty, and advocated the Church’s message. But this is not the realty of the world we live in.

 

[SuperLuigi]

So the guy who broke into a home a few miles from my house, raped a 3 year old & killed her is just a poor innocent guy who needs therapy? Are you serious?

Some people deserve whatever punishment is dished out, including the death penalty.

In this country, I don’t see how anyone should be executed. We aren’t the wandering tribes of Israel in Exodus.

 

[dreamurlife]

We did more than that. We declared war on Germany and fought a bloody war across the European continent. And when at last some of the death camps were captured by Allied forces, the General in charge of the operation rounded up German citizens from a nearby town and forced them to walk through the camp to see the dead Jews and the gas chambers.

The United States government did that.

Blessed Pope John Paul II said “War is a defeat for humanity.”

At what cost did we “win?” How many people had to die? How many Germans were brainwashed with propaganda? How many Germans died fighting against Hitler? How many Americans, French, British, Russia, Italian, (list goes on), gave their lives fighting for what they believed in?

Would Jesus have advocated to take guns and storm the Nazis? Or would He have had every person in the world united marching through Germany spreading His message of love to them? Even if it cost everyone their lives? Violence is never an option, even as a means to an end.

 

[Lapey]

Let me reiterate several things I’ve said…

I support Romney over Obama. I always have. However, I would not vote for EITHER if I had that choice.

Abortion does take more lives than the death penalty, that is fact. However, that does not mean it is less of an issue. I support all life equally. I don’t care if the death penalty was in just one state and only affecting one individual, I’d still be against it.

There is a difference;

abortion = intrinsic evil = never acceptible
capital punishment = not intrinsically evil = appropriate in certain circumstances.

 

[Lapey]

I am not saying they are innocent by any means. I’m saying they are human and deserve to be treated as such. If your son or daughter or cousin or mother or father or friend etc… was convicted and found guilty of murdering three people in cold blood, and they confessed, do they deserve death? No. They need help, through therapy, in jail, maybe never to be released into society.

But who are we to say that someone cannot change? Look at the disciples? Are they without sin? Every human sins, but we can change with effort and will power. I am not saying that the death penalty is entirely wrong, but the death penalty has been given to those who haven’t deserved it in the past, if only in 1/100 cases (this statistic is based on nothing just as an example).

What I’m saying is the loss of an innocent life is a loss of an innocent life regardless of the age, no matter the cause.

I would say in America with the means we have at our disposal, there are no situations that would require the death penalty. We have the ability to house someone who is a danger to society for the rest of their natural life in a way that poses no threat to anyone. Other countries may not be able, therefore could morally use the DP.

 

[dreamurlife]

I would say in America with the means we have at our disposal, there are no situations that would require the death penalty. We have the ability to house someone who is a danger to society for the rest of their natural life in a way that poses no threat to anyone. Other countries may not be able, therefore could morally use the DP.

That’s my point exactly. We shouldn’t use it at all.

But let’s look at this, someone who uses abortion but was never taught about the Faith and never had any help with deciding the issue. Is she in sin? Yes. But can she be saved? Of course. All we need to do is focus on advocating to those that do not know about the real issues of abortion.

Set up support homes, set up whatever needs to be set up.

Sure, the president can push along for federal legislation, but we all know those policies and laws take a while to enact and even longer to enforce. Picking the president isn’t going to end abortion, that part is left up to us.

Besides, say Obama does stay as president, if you get enough voices to unite under the banner of pro-life, he HAS to listen.

Don’t preach to those that are Catholic, they already know.

Preach on the street, hold up a sign, actively tell people in public about being pro-life and why. A bumper sticker won’t do it.

We have freedom of speech, and which is more important? Our day jobs? Or the lives of the future?

 

[Lapey]

That’s my point exactly. We shouldn’t use it at all.

But let’s look at this, someone who uses abortion but was never taught about the Faith and never had any help with deciding the issue. Is she in sin? Yes. But can she be saved? Of course. All we need to do is focus on advocating to those that do not know about the real issues of abortion.

Set up support homes, set up whatever needs to be set up.

Sure, the president can push along for federal legislation, but we all know those policies and laws take a while to enact and even longer to enforce. Picking the president isn’t going to end abortion, that part is left up to us.

Besides, say Obama does stay as president, if you get enough voices to unite under the banner of pro-life, he HAS to listen.

Don’t preach to those that are Catholic, they already know.

Preach on the street, hold up a sign, actively tell people in public about being pro-life and why. A bumper sticker won’t do it.

We have freedom of speech, and which is more important? Our day jobs? Or the lives of the future?

If they would know they would not be voting for Obama. If he wins re-election he will not listen to anything, he hasn’t listened to anyone who doesn’t fully agree with him yet.

 

[kbf1970060]

Mitt Romney. I think that he will be a much lesser threat to foreign policy and national security.

 

[dreamurlife]

If they would know they would not be voting for Obama. If he wins re-election he will not listen to anything, he hasn’t listened to anyone who doesn’t fully agree with him yet.

I agree. If. If is the key word. We need to take it upon ourselves to to educate the masses. And if he does win, we shouldn’t just idly sit by and be in defeat. We need to take action. We need to spread the Word to every street, every corner, every city, every town, every state, everywhere. We need to realize our lives are meant to be given entirely to the Lord. I really wish I wasn’t bound by college debt right now, or else I’d honestly travel the USA spreading the Word, staying in homeless shelters and eating at food pantries. That is my goal some day, once I earn enough to repay my debt, that is my goal. I’d give up everything to the Lord, for he gave me life.

 

[JimG]

The United States government did that.

Blessed Pope John Paul II said “War is a defeat for humanity.”

At what cost did we “win?” How many people had to die? How many Germans were brainwashed with propaganda? How many Germans died fighting against Hitler? How many Americans, French, British, Russia, Italian, (list goes on), gave their lives fighting for what they believed in?

Would Jesus have advocated to take guns and storm the Nazis? Or would He have had every person in the world united marching through Germany spreading His message of love to them? Even if it cost everyone their lives? Violence is never an option, even as a means to an end.

I think a great many people in the U.S. prior to World War II did not wish to become involved in the war. Isolationism has always had a place in American thinking.

Churchill was beggin the U.S. to enter the war. Without U.S., help, Britain might have fallen to the Nazi’s as well. They had already occupied France. Sometimes one cannot sit back while others are oppressed and killed, but must step up to help.

Ghandi ended the British occupation of India with peaceful resistance. That would simply not have worked in Nazi Germany. Peaceful protesters would simply be mowed down with machine guns. It would not have worked in Imperial Japan. The message of love can only be spread when it is accepted. The British may have loved their enemies. They should have. But they also wanted them stopped before invading their country.

The Catholic Church has never been a totally anti-war Church as a matter of doctrine. Priests serve as military chaplains. There is an ordinariate for the military. I would certainly not have wished for the U.S. to sit back and watch as Hitler overran all of Europe.