Obama vs Romney, who are you voting for and why?

[Jeanne_S]

1. The abortion mills as you call them, have been running legally regardless of election outcomes.
2. Abortion is not the SINGLE issue of faith in the this election. If some Catholics wish to focus on abortion to the exclusion of all else, that is their prerogative. Some others, like me, may choose to put BOTH candidates under the faith microscope and take that into account when making a decision.

Either way, the “mills” run. As a Catholic, I am obliged (and happy to) do all in my power to oppose abortion. If I disagree that legal remedies can do much, if anything, to contain the problem, that is my personal stance and I will not force it on anyone else with name-calling or accusations.

True,abortion isn’t the only issue,there is also the issue of 16trillion debt,which will only increase with the ACA.Bankrupt this country in a matter of a few years.Hyperinflation,making the already worthless dollar absolutely worthless.Supreme Court appointments.I think it is very shortsighted and selfish of those supporting Obama.To not concern themselves with the future of our children and grandchild,only their selfish concerns re their immediate needs.At least Romneyband Ryan are willing to make the painful changes to secure our future.

 

[seekerz]

True,abortion isn’t the only issue,there is also the issue of 16trillion debt,which will only increase with the ACA.Bankrupt this country in a matter of a few years.Hyperinflation,making the already worthless dollar absolutely worthless.Supreme Court appointments.I think it is very shortsighted and selfish of those supporting Obama.To not concern themselves with the future of our children and grandchild,only their selfish concerns re their immediate needs.At least Romneyband Ryan are willing to make the painful changes to secure our future.

Short-sighted and selfish? You make it sound like Romney is an antidote for all the ills of Obama that you list?

Anyway, I was talking about*** matters of faith*** - not prudential judgments like whose economic plan will work best to decrease the deficit…

 

[mary_bobo]

Short-sighted and selfish? You make it sound like Romney is an antidote for all the ills of Obama that you list?

Anyway, I was talking about*** matters of faith*** - not prudential judgments like whose economic plan will work best to decrease the deficit…

Doesn’t getting our country on a more sound fiscal base count at all? If not, and not abortion, what does count IYO?

 

[Carlan]

You are offended because you think someone is rude? Oh my…

You can say whatever you like, bottom line is, to support the candidate of that platform, Dem platform, is to support that platform. To vote for Obama is to support that platform and in turn participate in that platform. That platform endorses abortion rights and same sex unions, and other intrinsic evils.

With all due respect Deacon Lapey , neither the Democratic platform or the Republican party platform are perfect in all aspects, just as all nominees for the office are not perfect,far from it, we are not electing saints by any measure.
To repeat myself once more sir, I am not voting for President Obama because I support his position on choice or "same sex marriage"and neither do I support the Democratic Platform as a perfect instrument. I abhor abortion and same sex marriage and other intrinsic evil as a faithful Catholic in good standing just as much as you do.
I should not have to remind you, but I am going to anyway.God will judge my conscience and your conscience.
Peace, Carlan

 

[Jeanne_S]

Short-sighted and selfish? You make it sound like Romney is an antidote for all the ills of Obama that you list?

Anyway, I was talking about*** matters of faith*** - not prudential judgments like whose economic plan will work best to decrease the deficit…

If that’sthe case,then what do you support Obama?

 

[seekerz]

Doesn’t getting our country on a more sound fiscal base count at all? If not, and not abortion, what does count IYO?

Everything counts - matters of faith most of all. I’ve examined both candidates in that light and IMO, Romney loses to Obama.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Everything counts - matters of faith most of all. I’ve examined both candidates in that light and IMO, Romney loses to Obama.

Wow!

 

[seekerz]

If that’sthe case,then what do you support Obama?

Maybe you should ask why do I not support Romney…Seriously, I have supported Obama in the past (because I think he really wants to do right by ordinary people), but in 2008 I was wavering on him versus McCain from a Catholic perspective. I felt McCain had the moral high ground on abortion, but he seemed to be overwhelmed by the financial crisis which needed steady hands urgently (remember the suspended campaign). This election however, I’m not even having a niggle of a doubt regarding the moral aspect of the equation. Much as I oppose abortion, it does not constitute the sum total of moral evaluations that I think are pertinent in this case.

 

[seekerz]

Wow!

Yes, wow. When I read the Catechism, it does NOT begin: do you believe in abortion…?

 

[Lapey]

1. The abortion mills as you call them, have been running legally regardless of election outcomes.
2. Abortion is not the SINGLE issue of faith in the this election. If some Catholics wish to focus on abortion to the exclusion of all else, that is their prerogative. Some others, like me, may choose to put BOTH candidates under the faith microscope and take that into account when making a decision.

Either way, the “mills” run. As a Catholic, I am obliged (and happy to) do all in my power to oppose abortion. If I disagree that legal remedies can do much, if anything, to contain the problem, that is my personal stance and I will not force it on anyone else with name-calling or accusations.

1. The mills run because abortion on demand is legal. Bill Clinton’s “safe legal. and rare” is not good enough. This is only the mother’s rights and perspectives, what about the living child which is always ended in a safe, legal and rare abortion?
2. Abortion is one of the issues the Church defines and an intrinsically evil act. There are several; abortion, euthanasia, same sex unions, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning. The democrat party platform endorses some if not all of them. The republican platform endorses none.

It is not name calling nor accusatory to discuss these issues in the truth of Church doctrine, this is the authoritative teachings which we Catholics are called to form our conscience to be in compliance with. If we choose to be outside of that then we must try our best to learn why our conscience is in opposition to the truth of the Church. Is it our conscience that is right, or is it the Church?

This is the question that each of us Catholics must ask ourselves, not which candidate we “can” vote for. I asked myself a question when I was much younger than I am now, back in the early 90’s when I was a registered democrat who voted party line. When the 94 republican “revolution” as it was called happened I was furious. “Why were they lying about what Bill C was trying to get done”, I remember asking my mother, I was about 28 at the time? Well then this question kept ringing in my head, why is it I can support someone who believes in legal abortion, and other issues my Church teaches against? Am I Catholic first, or a free American; which is it, I must choose? No matter which it is my responsibilities come in either way to protect the most vulnerable in society.

Some may think this next statement means I do not care about the poor, I can assure you the diaconate ministry I participate in is not directed at the rich in society, I am a deacon in the Church a servant to the poor. With that said the level of poverty in this country does not even come close to the loss of life and suffering caused by abortion. Suffering of the unborn that are being killed, the mothers who will suffer traumatically for the rest of their lives, suffering of the families of everyone involved, suffering of the entire American community which we call home. I have worked with and I’m sure I will again soon, young ladies who have been talked into taking this “choice” called abortion, it destroys much more than the child in the womb.

There is also nothing in the republican platform, nor from what the candidate does that you can discern the disdain for the poor which some say Romney holds. Some of the issues brought up against him are hard to believe about anyone.

To those who will dismiss my words as simply toeing the republican line there is nothing I can say to change that thought, only you can change that. I pray you can at least see my words are sincere, you may choose to disagree with me as that is your choice; all I ask is to read my words with the intent in which they are written.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Do Catholics who plan on voting for Obama think it would be good when Catholic organizations and Catholic proferssionals are drummed out of the health care sector for refusing to comply with birth control mandates?

Is this in your mind a separation of Church and State issue?

Do you believe Churches should be confined to not operating in the public sphere if they oppose the government’s morality? No Catholic healthcare or adoption agencies.

 

[Carlan]

I truly take offense to this statement! How do many of us forget this message, and I’m sure you speak of people like me who support a candidate whom you choose to think evil of???

Please tell me, a “Herald of the Gospel”, a deacon in the Church, how do I forget the gospel??? Please, if you’re going to preach the Gospel, preach the WHOLE Gospel, not just the “nice” parts you agree with.

I don’t get what you are saying here, I will grant to you, being a member of the Clergy, that you are no doubt an excellent “Herald of the Gospel”.

My simple reference to the Gospel in Matthew, was my clumsy way of pointing out that we live in a world of intrinsic evil and that the bottom line is what it tells us Christians in the end of the book of Revelation, and that is that Jesus wins.
Please forgive me if I have offended your sensibilities in any way what so ever.

Peace be with you, Carlan

 

[rlg94086]

Short-sighted and selfish? You make it sound like Romney is an antidote for all the ills of Obama that you list?

Anyway, I was talking about*** matters of faith*** - not prudential judgments like whose economic plan will work best to decrease the deficit…

Okay. Since it’s not based on prudential judgments, what are these non-prudential matters of faith that lead you to determine Obama is the better candidate?

 

[Lapey]

With all due respect Deacon Lapey , neither the Democratic platform or the Republican party platform are perfect in all aspects, just as all nominees for the office are not perfect,far from it, we are not electing saints by any measure.
To repeat myself once more sir, I am not voting for President Obama because I support his position on choice or "same sex marriage"and neither do I support the Democratic Platform as a perfect instrument. I abhor abortion and same sex marriage and other intrinsic evil as a faithful Catholic in good standing just as much as you do.
I should not have to remind you, but I am going to anyway.God will judge my conscience and your conscience.
Peace, Carlan

More so than being judged by God because of our conscience, we will be judged on how we accept the teachings of the Church on the formation of our consciences. If we follow our conscience in true faith, there are limits to our culpability in our mistakes, and I mean ours as in all of us. But is we obstinately refuse to examine and form our conscience to be in line with our Church’s authoritative teaching, well then our culpability may and will rise. If you “abhor” abortion and same sex “marriage”, how do you put yourself in Obama’s corner? These are his core beliefs and the democrat party’s platform? This should mean something to you.

 

[Pitcharan]

Ok, I’ll try…

Will you be voting in the American presidential election from India?

NO.

Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. Rom 1:28) Help me understand

During the exodus from Egypt in the Desert of Sin, many Israelites indulged in obnoxious sins including unnatural sex. They did not listen to Aaron and persisted in their sinfulness. So God 'gave them over to their depraved mind, to do do what ought not to be done’.

It is those sinful people who are to be blamed for their sins and not God.

I am not even remotely suggesting that abortion is God’s fault. I am only saying that it is the people who abort who are answerable to God and not the lawmakers who did not think it necessary to have penal laws against abortion. I am drawing a parallel with the ancient law which permitted divorce, for which the hard-hearted Israelites who demanded it were responsible and Moses who gave the Law was not guilty in any way.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Do Catholics who plan on voting for Obama think it would be good when Catholic organizations and Catholic proferssionals are drummed out of the health care sector for refusing to comply with birth control mandates?

Is this in your mind a separation of Church and State issue?

Do you believe Churches should be confined to not operating in the public sphere if they oppose the government’s morality? No Catholic healthcare or adoption agencies.

We are beating a dead horse IMHO,It is abundantly clear that those bent on voting for Obama,will do so,regardless of our good intentions to steer them in the other direction.Doesn’t matter what info is presented,the blinders are on.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

We are beating a dead horse IMHO,It is abundantly clear that those bent on voting for Obama,will do so,regardless of our good intentions to steer them in the other direction.Doesn’t matter what info is presented,the blinders are on.

Tsk, tsk, Jeanne. Change “voting for Obama” to “voting for Romney” and your post still holds true.

 

[Lapey]

I don’t get what you are saying here, I will grant to you, being a member of the Clergy, that you are no doubt an excellent “Herald of the Gospel”.

My simple reference to the Gospel in Matthew, was my clumsy way of pointing out that we live in a world of intrinsic evil and that the bottom line is what it tells us Christians in the end of the book of Revelation, and that is that Jesus wins.
Please forgive me if I have offended your sensibilities in any way what so ever.

Peace be with you, Carlan

Your apology is accepted, but please know that you didn’t offend my sensibilities, you offended me. It seems that many on the left talk of the right being intolerant, but then they are truly intolerant of anything that is contrary to what they believe. I think this can be called hypocrisy, don’t you; and it goes both ways? We both, both sides I mean must be tolerant of each other’s points, we can disagree but we must still be respectful.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Tsk, tsk, Jeanne. Change “voting for Obama” to “voting for Romney” and your post still holds true.

I think it is clear as can be that Romney is the better choice,in matters of faith and in turning our country around economically.After four years of Obama,he has done nothing but increase our national debt,with his smoke and mirrors policies.He will bankrupt this country,both economically and spiritually.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I think it is clear as can be that Romney is the better choice,in matters of faith and in turning our country around economically.After four years of Obama,he has done nothing but increase our national debt,with his smoke and mirrors policies.He will bankrupt this country,both economically and spiritually.

I accept that as your thoughtful conclusion, but I am not going to be as partisan as you and will not carry water for either man, both of whom I find inadequate to be elected/re-elected as our President.