Obama won Catholic vote, regular churchgoers chose Romney [CC]

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I’m trying to convey that one’s own views on abortion must be independent of government (and maybe religion) before any significant causes on abortion can be advanced.

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This does not take into account the fact that a lot of people are so poorly instructed morally,that they equate “legal” with “moral”. That being the case, giving up on legal solutions, even limited ones, while waiting for broad-based “changes of heart” is probably the wrong thing to do.

It is true, too, that the majority of Americans presently favor at least some level of limitation on abortion. Is there some compelling reason why this should not be given any legal cognizance? At what point is a majority big enough before we can stop ignoring it and keep calling for more “cultural change”?
 
For the most part I am, but this has nothing to do with an individual coming to a personal epiphany about abortion. Whether or not abortion is supported or restricted by government does not change how people view it morally, it only changes access to an abortion. If you want significant change in abortions then you need to reach the mind of the people not the funding to the doctors.
I’m not interested in Theories and hypothesis about the pros and cons of abortion, I don’t want my government promoting it or funding it. Voting for a Candidate who pledges to defund abortion Nationally as has been done in States despite the Federal Government’s obstinacy is an immediate act against abortion. I’m not interested in trying to convince people of something I should not be paying for, something that is frequent up to 3,000 a day.
I’m trying to convey that one’s own views on abortion must be independent of government (and maybe religion) before any significant causes on abortion can be advanced.
Why is that independence more importantly than the government funding abortion providers?

So this independence doesn’t pertain to taxpayers. Just an abstract idea about the morality of abortion, that’s great. Great Idea!
Insofar that a choice is the same as promotion this is true
Correct, I made a choice, I voted for Romney, no blood of the innocents is on my hands, he pledged to defund Planned Parenthood.
 
This is funny,

quote: “abortion should be independent of the government”

But now it’s a mute point. See, this statement is a farce, in the arena of ideas, abortion should be independent of the government, in the real world, they don’t think this way.

Great posts Carlene and Slate.

It should be totally up to the State, individual states, even unbiased Constitutional experts say this.
 
SHAME ON THEM!
They are now in MORTAL SIN as is everyone who voted for ANY Democrat:(
And the official Church reference for this pronouncement would be . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

And the Church bestowing the authority for making this pronouncement would be . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
 
I would answer simply by directing you to the Catechism and asking you to review what the visible Church is. As Catholics, there are things we must believe and responsibilities we have. That “institutional” Church you respect my need for reliance on is the one that Jesus Christ Himself founded and yes, you are correct that I need to rely on it. Jesus only founded one Church. I believe He’s the Saviour. If I believe that, I have no other logical, reasonable choice that to assent to His Church. That’s the hope I have.
Good for you! Keep going…
 
And the official Church reference for this pronouncement would be . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

And the Church bestowing the authority for making this pronouncement would be . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
I would like to see their sources for that statement as well.
 
I’m really glad the election is over. Couldn’t stand all the posturing. Both candidates supported pro-Catholic ideals and both candidates supported ant-Catholic ideals. So if you voted for either candidate, you voted for and against your Catholic faith. Time to move past the election and work together for a more loving compassionate caring giving peaceful America.
 
You voted for Obama because you thought Romney was going to take away your medical assistance or that of others? You voted for evil for no good reason at all, then, because it is, at best, unclear whether Obamacare is going to result in net healthcare benefits for anyone, and there is considerable reason to believe it is a net negative, particularly for the very poor and for the elderly. A shame, really, that someone implanted such ideas in your mind. But there were lots of politicos interested in doing that, I guess.

One of my friends is a lawyer who does Social Security Disability cases. He says it is presently easier to get on SSD now than it ever was in his practice before. He also has several doctors who are so claimant oriented that they will find a diagnosis sufficient for SS purposes on just about anybody, unless the claim is so grotesquely false that they can’t bring themselves to justify it even with a mental diagnosis, which is actually the easiest claim to win. But in the end, it’s actually more important what the vocational rehabilitation expert says, and he knows the claim-favorable ones of those as well.

Reading what you have said, it is astonishing to me that you have not yet qualified for SSD and Medicare or SSI and Medicaid. But seeing no reference to lawyers in your posts, I take it you have not really done what you ought to do, and need to get serious about your claim. The lawyers don’t charge unless you get an award, by the way.
Thank you for saying this! I have a life-long disability and I could care less about my assistance because Obamacare will require rationing and I would not be deemed “worthy” of care anyway because I can’t contribute to society. If a candidate can’t care for the helpless, the unborn, he or she sure isn’t going to protect the disabled and the elderly!! I pray I don’t get fatally ill but my trust is in God to provide, not the government! God wants me here for a reason and my time in his His hands.
 
I could be wrong, but I think there was something in the Illinois bill about late term abortion with out restriction that then Illinois Senator Obama opposed. A yes vote could have been worse than a no vote. I agree, I believe it was one of the poison pill bills. I will try to check this out further. I know I read something to that effect.
 
This does not take into account the fact that a lot of people are so poorly instructed morally,that they equate “legal” with “moral”. That being the case, giving up on legal solutions, even limited ones, while waiting for broad-based “changes of heart” is probably the wrong thing to do.
So you think that imposing your morality on others via legislation will be more favorable in the long run? How long has the abortion debate been going and how much new ground has this strategy actually broke? If anything, people have become polarized on this issue more than ever. Since a majority support abortion in one form or another I would think it casts a shadow over those who would forcibly impose a complete pro-life agenda. This isn’t to say that if you think legislation is the way to go you should stop. I just don’t think it will lead to permanent good, if anything it will lead to more division in the nation which we can’t afford.

I think a better solution would be to compete against clinics that offer abortions with alternative health care options through the church. Also, courteously provide clients of abortion clinics with adoption information. Lastly, support pregnant women on the fence about abortion to show them that adoption is a viable option. If all churches and its members focused on these three things then I guarantee a drop in abortion rates (so says my crystal ball).
It is true, too, that the majority of Americans presently favor at least some level of limitation on abortion. Is there some compelling reason why this should not be given any legal cognizance? At what point is a majority big enough before we can stop ignoring it and keep calling for more “cultural change”?
Do you think current abortion laws do not take into account the will of the people? If you are a majority then you’re already big enough, but I think you meant a general group of people. Policy has almost always been based around cultural attitudes of the majority. I don’t think abortion is any different.
 
No, you said you wanted abortion independent of abortion but now use a double standard.

Reagan said it best:
The famous British Member of Parliament, William Wilberforce, prayed with his small group of influential friends, the “Clapham Sect,” for decades to see an end to slavery in the British empire. Wilberforce led that struggle in Parliament, unflaggingly, because he believed in the sanctity of human life. He saw the fulfillment of his impossible dream when Parliament outlawed slavery just before his death.
Let his faith and perseverance be our guide. We will never recognize the true value of our own lives until we affirm the value in the life of others, a value of which Malcolm Muggeridge says:. . . however low it flickers or fiercely burns, it is still a Divine flame which no man dare presume to put out, be his motives ever so humane and enlightened."
Abraham Lincoln recognized that we could not survive as a free land when some men could decide that others were not fit to be free and should therefore be slaves. Likewise, we cannot survive as a free nation when some men decide that others are not fit to live and should be abandoned to abortion or infanticide. My Administration is dedicated to the preservation of America as a free land, and there is no cause more important for preserving that freedom than affirming the transcendent right to life of all human beings, the right without which no other rights have any meaning.- Ronald Reagan
old.nationalreview.com/document/reagan200406101030.asp

The abortion and slavery analogy continues.
 
… That was why I voted for Obama. I don’t condone everything Obama does, and I do write to him about things that bother me sometimes, but I saw this country going down hill like the 1930s with Romney, I didn’t see living conditions improving under his leadership.
You did the right thing. God bless you.
 
Disagree. But hey, let’s just watch the consequences. That should tell the tale.

You own it, Democrats. What happens now is the Democrats’ fault.
And when people don’t try to work things out together, all are at fault.
 
The Democrats are responsible for what happens now.
Refusing to try and work together for the advantage of all is despairing and a large part of the problem in this country now. It’s defeatism to sit back and continue to point fingers.
 
well THIS devout Catholic/Seminary candidate voted for Obama. and yes, i am in Church every sunday, multiple times a week, also praying in front of the Blessed Sacrement, praying my Rosary, saying my Divine Office, etc. yes, i am pro life too. believe it or not, we exist. i voted for him not because of his stances on maintaining the status quo on abortion, but in spite of it, and i voted because of the social issues. I just try to be the best Catholic i can be, and counsel others about moral issues when appropriate. God Bless.
Isn’t calling yourself a “devout” Catholic showing a lack of humility? I always thought that a devout Catholic is someone who others call devout while the person admits to having faults. It’s like someone who proclaims himself to be wise, only God can do it and be telling the truth.

I don’t know how you can be all of that and not see anything wrong with voting for a man who said that he still thinks a baby should die even when the baby is born alive after surviving an abortion attempt. I recommend that you prayerfully study Pope John Paul II’s encyclical called Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life).
 
Refusing to try and work together for the advantage of all is despairing and a large part of the problem in this country now. It’s defeatism to sit back and continue to point fingers.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

Besides, the country voted for Democrats. Let em have Democrats. We’ll see how they like em after about 2 years.
 
well THIS devout Catholic/Seminary candidate voted for Obama. and yes, i am in Church every sunday, multiple times a week, also praying in front of the Blessed Sacrement, praying my Rosary, saying my Divine Office, etc. yes, i am pro life too. believe it or not, we exist. i voted for him not because of his stances on maintaining the status quo on abortion, but in spite of it, and i voted because of the social issues. I just try to be the best Catholic i can be, and counsel others about moral issues when appropriate. God Bless.
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