Ohio Voters Reject Public-Union Curbs

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seekerz said:
Again, democracy at work. Ohioans seem to be saying that they will decide matters based on the issues and not on blind allegiance to an ideology. Kudos to them.
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It appears that they demonstrated blind allegiance to union ad money.
 
The voters have spoken……YADA, YADA, YADA ……reality check to all useless nuts i.e. buckeyes…. There is still no extra money going into the state budget for municipal and county governments. Let that fact sink in a little bit. Got it? Now motivate a couple neurons and think about it. Your counties and cities don’t have enough cash now to fund existing public employees pensions and all the other bennies they get. In fact, all around here tax levies went down faster and hotter than a Cain sex harassment accuser. Only levies that survived were renewals. Now cities, counties, and some school districts are bucking budget shortfalls…. Well issue 2 gone down congratulations now pay it forward and don’t cry when the cops and firefighters and teachers all start getting laid off, and the trash piles up and the streets develop car eating pot holes, when the extra-curricular activities become fee based as services are cut back et cetera et cetera. Pay me now or pay me later one way or the other you will pay.
 
stevegravy said:
The voters have spoken……YADA, YADA, YADA ……reality check to all useless nuts i.e. buckeyes…. There is still no extra money going into the state budget for municipal and county governments. Let that fact sink in a little bit. Got it? Now motivate a couple neurons and think about it. Your counties and cities don’t have enough cash now to fund existing public employees pensions and all the other bennies they get. In fact, all around here tax levies went down faster and hotter than a Cain sex harassment accuser. Only levies that survived were renewals. Now cities, counties, and some school districts are bucking budget shortfalls…. Well issue 2 gone down congratulations now pay it forward and don’t cry when the cops and firefighters and teachers all start getting laid off, and the trash piles up and the streets develop car eating pot holes, when the extra-curricular activities become fee based as services are cut back et cetera et cetera. Pay me now or pay me later one way or the other you will pay.
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Don’t forget to add that the sky is falling (has been since Nov 2008)!
 
seekerz said:
Again, democracy at work. Ohioans seem to be saying that they will decide matters based on the issues and not on blind allegiance to an ideology. Kudos to them.
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Code: 
 You don't get it, and you may never get it. You can *democratically* vote to fleece others, but it is theft nonetheless. If you, your wife, parents and four kids hold a vote to confiscate the income and wealth of your seven ritzy neighbors, and your side wins by an 8-7 vote, you can pretend that the high-minded "democracy" of it all makes it legitimate, but you all are still crooks. Democracy without morality leads to mob rule. 
 In reality, this Ohio vote will serve to drive many older folks out of their homes that they have owned for decades, and I wonder if any of you give a damn. The firemen and police will continue to protect the homes that they once owned and cherished. :rolleyes: Rob
 
seekerz said:
The only difference I see is that in one case you mind paying for products/services (you don’t chide your banks for forcing you to honor the checks) but in another case you do. My suggestion? Lobby politicians to dispense with the services you’d rather not have - don’t complain about being forced to pay for them once they’re delivered.
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No, in one case I have a choice of who delivers the product or service.

In the other, I have NO CHOICE.

So tying this back to the topic, private sector workers benefit from providing high quality goods and services at competitive prices, because if they don’t, their company will go out of business. In the public sector, there is no incentive to provide a high quality service, nor is there an incentive to provide the service cost effectively. That does not mean that all government services are poor quality, certainly some are, but NO incentive to provide those services cost effectively. The government can simply raise taxes to cover the cost of their inefficiencies. The problem is then compounded with public service unions…if they can simply vote their own into office, they get to negotiate with themselves, and nobody can stop them. If those that support public unions, actually supported the idea of a prevailing wage that they support with private unions, then many public employees would have to get less in terms of wages and benefits. Simply voting yourself more of what somebody else works for, so that you can have more than what they do, is immoral.
 
seekerz said:
Don’t forget to add that the sky is falling (has been since Nov 2008)!
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Not really… most of the problems getting levies passed have been on going since the late 80’s and 90’s. It seems one makes it every 10 years or so.
 
seekerz said:
Don’t forget to add that the sky is falling (has been since Nov 2008)!
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Now you're talking! The problem is that you don't realize that YOUR beloved leftists in government CAUSED the calamity by FORCING banks to lend to millions of unqualified "borrowers". And that includes the odious **Obama**, who sued Citibank in Chicago through ACORN when that bank refused to lend foolishly and TRIED to be responsible stewards. :coffeeread: Rob
 
RACJ said:
Now you’re talking! The problem is that you don’t realize that YOUR beloved leftists in government CAUSED the calamity by FORCING banks to lend to millions of unqualified “borrowers”. And that includes the odious Obama, who sued Citibank in Chicago through ACORN when that bank refused to lend foolishly and TRIED to be responsible stewards. :coffeeread: Rob
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If you say anything bad about our Dear Leader, regardless of the truth of your claims, makes you a racist.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
If you say anything bad about our Dear Leader, regardless of the truth of your claims, makes you a racist.
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I promise that I will never again bring truth into a discussion with Obama acolytes. Let me begin: None of the subjects in our 57 states would be suffering from high energy prices if we all simply inflated our tires. The sea levels will continue to recede if we elect Obama to a second term. Al Jezeera is MY paper of record since Hillary lauded it as a purveyor of truth. Hey, this lying stuff is fun, Scott! :thumbsup: ;) Rob
 
seekerz said:
So…er…money is being taken from your paycheck to pay public workers sort of like businesses

No…err…try reading the post…:rolleyes:

are ‘taking’ from your checking account or debit card? I mean, in both cases you are *paying for a product *are you not? Unless Ohio public servants get to just kick back at home 24/7 watching TV or something…?
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No we are not paying for a service as one does with a business. Patronizing a business is optional, paying ever increasing taxes is not.

If you are an employee of a business you get to choose the type of health care you want…usually there are 3 sometimes more options that vary in rates. The remainer of the premium comes from the business’ profit margin. I pay taxes so that I receive services like police, fire fighting, government etc. The problem arises in that the collective bargaining that takes place does so between parties with conflict of interest, namely politician’s campaigns that are supported by union dues. This is not rocket science. Sort of like having the fox guard the hen house.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Victory for the workers, defeat for the taxpayers…again.
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The taxpayers had a right to vote in this matter too; remember, most union members in Ohio are taxpayers as well. Plain and simple, the union membership came out and exercised their constitutional rights and the results were what they were.
 
Chaplain777 said:
Uh Huh, good luck with that. Take a look at michigan or california and their economic woes. Matter of time.
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No way on God's earth can the people of Ohio pay for the monstrous largesse of a relatively few government "servants". What you have done is cripple your economy for generations to come. You will be crying for a bailout soon. :console: Rob
 
gamewell45 said:
The taxpayers had a right to vote in this matter too; remember, most union members in Ohio are taxpayers as well. Plain and simple, the union membership came out and exercised their constitutional rights and the results were what they were.
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The government sector creates no wealth. Only the private enterprises do. Governments can only operate thanks to skimming, or lately, plundering the wealth created by others. The elite government class and their families voted themselves astronomical benefits that can no longer be afforded, period. That's simply the facts. I wish that I could vote MYSELF millions. :blush: Rob
 
RACJ said:
The government sector creates no wealth. Only the private enterprises do. Governments can only operate thanks to skimming, or lately, plundering the wealth created by others. The elite government class and their families voted themselves astronomical benefits that can no longer be afforded, period. That’s simply the facts. I wish that I could vote MYSELF millions. 😊 Rob
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You could vote yourself a big raise - just get elected governor or get onto a governor’s team.

I also beg to differ that the government creates no wealth. Wealth is not just dollars and cents. Wealth is education of a young generation. Wealth is health of the workforce and their spouses/children. Wealth is the services necessary for business to be able to operate and make a profit. Wealth is security for those businesses and their workers. Wealth is the legal system which allows for an orderly society. Wealth is the systems of licensing and regulation that protect society from the whims of individuals. Wealth is the social services, integral to the moral health and stability of any society. Wealth is so much more than profit margins, it doesn’t even begin to be funny. The government DOES create wealth, mainly by maintaining the structures and institutions that make it possible for individuals and businesses to earn money. Try visiting Somalia to get a feel for what wealth generation looks like without government.
 
seekerz said:
You could vote yourself a big raise - just get elected governor or get onto a governor’s team.

I also beg to differ that the government creates no wealth. Wealth is not just dollars and cents. Wealth is education of a young generation. Wealth is health of the workforce and their spouses/children. Wealth is the services necessary for business to be able to operate and make a profit. Wealth is security for those businesses and their workers. Wealth is the legal system which allows for an orderly society. Wealth is the systems of licensing and regulation that protect society from the whims of individuals. Wealth is the social services, integral to the moral health and stability of any society. Wealth is so much more than profit margins, it doesn’t even begin to be funny. The government DOES create wealth, mainly by maintaining the structures and institutions that make it possible for individuals and businesses to earn money. Try visiting Somalia to get a feel for what wealth generation looks like without government.
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Try visiting Greece to get a feel for all the wealth generated by government.
 
seekerz said:
You could vote yourself a big raise - just get elected governor or get onto a governor’s team.

I also beg to differ that the government creates no wealth. Wealth is not just dollars and cents. Wealth is education of a young generation. Wealth is health of the workforce and their spouses/children. Wealth is the services necessary for business to be able to operate and make a profit. Wealth is security for those businesses and their workers. Wealth is the legal system which allows for an orderly society. Wealth is the systems of licensing and regulation that protect society from the whims of individuals. Wealth is the social services, integral to the moral health and stability of any society. Wealth is so much more than profit margins, it doesn’t even begin to be funny. The government DOES create wealth, mainly by maintaining the structures and institutions that make it possible for individuals and businesses to earn money. Try visiting Somalia to get a feel for what wealth generation looks like without government.
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:confused:

Uhhhh… there is wealth in Somalia missed that in the National Geo.

Oh, I love remedial education. There is a huge difference between well-being, which one can have with some rags, a plastic tent, a campfire, and some roasted vermin as victuals and ….wealth. Wealth is things like tasty food, dry goods, houses, fuel, transportation, entertainment, et cetera. It is grown, mined, built, and transported all the other things associated with wealth are really service oriented.

Governments are for providing security and justice like locking up bad guys<= had to be specific for the ecconomic justice crowd because there ain’t none of that.
 
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