OK, I Am Confused. Do Mormons Believe In The Trinity?

[mormonboy]

That you believe all those things and still believe that being separated from God is a degree of “heaven”.

“Hell = Spiritual Death + Physical Death”

This describes terrestrial, telestial and outer darkness.

Rebecca, this is confusing doctrines. If you are really interested in this doctrine, you will be confused by what you hear. I can be overwhelmed with new profound doctrines. The best thing to do is to ask God if the things you hear are true.

Something about the Mormon church makes it undeniably true. The things I felt as a youth when I heard church leaders, parents, and friends bear their testimonies of the Church of Jesus Christ and the restored gospel make it impossible to deny. Joseph Smith said, " For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it." -JS History I had many experiences that pointed me to the church and recieved countless on my full-time mission.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca, this is confusing doctrines. If you are really interested in this doctrine, you will be confused by what you hear. I can be overwhelmed with new profound doctrines. The best thing to do is to ask God if the things you hear are true.

I don’t think they are profound. They have no sense to them.

Something about the Mormon church makes it undeniably true. The things I felt as a youth when I heard church leaders, parents, and friends bear their testimonies of the Church of Jesus Christ and the restored gospel make it impossible to deny. Joseph Smith said, " For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it." -JS History I had many experiences that pointed me to the church and recieved countless on my full-time mission.

Yes I know, it’s all about how you feel. I felt really good the day I stopped believing in your god and became an atheist. It was one of the happiest days of my life.

The undeniable truth of mormonism is that it is false.

 

[mormonboy]

I don’t think they are profound. They have no sense to them.

Yes I know, it’s all about how you feel. I felt really good the day I stopped believing in your god and became an atheist. It was one of the happiest days of my life.

The undeniable truth of mormonism is that it is false.

If you are atheist why are you on a religion website? Have you ever successfully pulled people’s beliefs from them?

 

[RebeccaJ]

If you are atheist why are you on a religion website? Have you ever successfully pulled people’s beliefs from them?

I am no longer atheist. God led me to His Church.

I have never tried to “pull belief”. As a missionary, were you successful at pulling people’s beliefs from them? Replacing it with lies?

 

[mormonboy]

I am no longer atheist. God led me to His Church.

I have never tried to “pull belief”. As a missionary, were you successful at pulling people’s beliefs from them? Replacing it with lies?

As a missionary that was not my intention at all. In fact, I avoided arguments because contention is not of God. I found teaching people about Jesus Christ brought much more joy than I can describe. I can see you have some hatred or bitter feelings towards the church. It seems as if you are targeting the Mormon church. All of the attacks on the church just makes me believe in it more and cements my conviction. I know many of the prophets of biblical times endured much more than I did, but I like to try to relate to them.

If it isn’t uncomfortable for you, can you share how God led you to your beliefs now? I am happy for your decision and commend you on your faith. I am sorry your experience with the LDS church didn’t work out but we try to be the best we can. We try to do Christ-like deeds to all mankind.

 

[RebeccaJ]

As a missionary that was not my intention at all. In fact, I avoided arguments because contention is not of God. I found teaching people about Jesus Christ brought much more joy than I can describe. I can see you have some hatred or bitter feelings towards the church. It seems as if you are targeting the Mormon church. All of the attacks on the church just makes me believe in it more and cements my conviction. I know many of the prophets of biblical times endured much more than I did, but I like to try to relate to them.

Mormonboy, just because someone leaves your religion and speaks the truth about it does not mean they are bitter. This is something you have been taught. It is not the truth. You have also been taught that those who speak the truth about your church are only telling you that your church is true. This is also a lie.

Jesus Christ as Savior, who lived, died and rose again, is about the only truth that Mormonism has. I understand the joy you get from this Truth.

If it isn’t uncomfortable for you, can you share how God led you to your beliefs now? I am happy for your decision and commend you on your faith. I am sorry your experience with the LDS church didn’t work out but we try to be the best we can. We try to do Christ-like deeds to all mankind.

It isn’t like it was a field trip that didn’t work out so I left. There is very much about your church that is false. This is not an attack. It is the truth.

conversion story

 

[mormonboy]

Mormonboy, just because someone leaves your religion and speaks the truth about it does not mean they are bitter. This is something you have been taught. It is not the truth. You have also been taught that those who speak the truth about your church are only telling you that your church is true. This is also a lie.

Jesus Christ as Savior, who lived, died and rose again, is about the only truth that Mormonism has. I understand the joy you get from this Truth.

It isn’t like it was a field trip that didn’t work out so I left. There is very much about your church that is false. This is not an attack. It is the truth.

conversion story

So do you ever think about some positives the LDS church has or is it all the falsehoods and how we are wrong…

I think we may have a little more in common than you think Rebecca. I’ll list some and you agree or disagree, ok?

-Families can be eternal
-We can live with God in heaven
-there is a hell
-We lived premortally with God
-We believe in Jesus Christ
-Obedience pleases God
-The Bible
-Christ was resurrected
-By God’s grace we can reach heaven
-Free will

And it can go on if you want.

 

[Scriptorian]

God cannot be divided, split, to rule over different “kingdoms”. This is not a Christian belief. It is polytheist.

I think it is Mormons who have a problem with the greatness and glory of God. You diminish Him, severely.

Greatness and glory is not the same and the mysterious and the nonsensical.

There is plenty about God that falls into the incomprehensibility category that we don’t need to make up stuff to fill that void. Human beings have no concept of the infinite and so much about God is infinite. We cannot comprehend that. God is perfection. We can’t comprehend that. God is omniscient. We can’t comprehend that either. But just because we don’t buy into the hooplah that God is one substance but three persons, doesn’t mean we diminish God.

It is not a matter of underestimating God on our part. It is underestimating his children on your part that’s the problem.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

So do you ever think about some positives the LDS church has or is it all the falsehoods and how we are wrong…

I think we may have a little more in common than you think Rebecca. I’ll list some and you agree or disagree, ok?

-Families can be eternal ** By the grace of God all members of our family may make it to live eternally in in heaven, but none are married in heaven as stated Mat 22:23-30: Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven**

-We can live with God in heaven **agree
**
-there is a hell agree
-We lived premortally with God nope, God knew us before we were born because God is out side of time
-We believe in Jesus Christ agree
-Obedience pleases God agree
-The Bible agree
-Christ was resurrected agree
-By God’s grace we can reach heaven agree
-Free will agree

And it can go on if you want.

 

[Scriptorian]

Mormonboy, just because someone leaves your religion and speaks the truth about it does not mean they are bitter. This is something you have been taught. It is not the truth. You have also been taught that those who speak the truth about your church are only telling you that your church is true. This is also a lie.

Jesus Christ as Savior, who lived, died and rose again, is about the only truth that Mormonism has. I understand the joy you get from this Truth.

It isn’t like it was a field trip that didn’t work out so I left. There is very much about your church that is false. This is not an attack. It is the truth.

conversion story

Your bitterness is evident in your posts. Not because you are a former Mormon, but because of what you say. Learning after the fact that you are a former Mormon from Utah also makes sense to me, because a “normal” Catholic would not usually be so antagonistic against a Church that has partnered with Catholics numerous times to make the world a better place.

Also, such passionate distaste for Mormonism is only this prevalent among non-Mormons in Utah and among Protestant ministers.

No offense, but it sounds like you are still trying to convince yourself that the Mormon Church is false in some sort of effort to set your mind at ease on the matter.

 

[Scriptorian]

By the grace of God all members of our family may make it to live eternally in in heaven, but none are married in heaven as stated Mat 22:23-30: Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven

You are correct that “in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.” You must be married on earth and by the proper authority for a marriage to be eternal. Marriages are not performed after one is resurrected. If you are not married by the time you are resurrected, you will be a “single” angel in heaven. I am not sure why, but that is how it is.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

You are correct that “in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.” You must be married on earth and by the proper authority for a marriage to be eternal. Marriages are not performed after one is resurrected. If you are not married by the time you are resurrected, you will be a “single” angel in heaven. I am not sure why, but that is how it is.

but if we look at the previous verse Jesus was asked about the women who had been widowed by three or four husbands and asked who’s wife she would be. that is when Jesus said this. there is no marriage in heaven and at death the marriage ends.

 

[mormonboy]

oneGODoneCHURCH:
See Rebecca, we have more in common than just a simple belief in Jesus Christ… Think thoroughly through what you post before you rant off on false things about anyother church.

 

[mormonboy]

but if we look at the previous verse Jesus was asked about the women who had been widowed by three or four husbands and asked who’s wife she would be. that is when Jesus said this. there is no marriage in heaven and at death the marriage ends.

sounds like marriage is a sin??

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

sounds like marriage is a sin??

why would you say that?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Your bitterness is evident in your posts. Not because you are a former Mormon, but because of what you say. Learning after the fact that you are a former Mormon from Utah also makes sense to me, because a “normal” Catholic would not usually be so antagonistic against a Church that has partnered with Catholics numerous times to make the world a better place.

Also, such passionate distaste for Mormonism is only this prevalent among non-Mormons in Utah and among Protestant ministers.

No offense, but it sounds like you are still trying to convince yourself that the Mormon Church is false in some sort of effort to set your mind at ease on the matter.

Armchair psychology, also predictable.

 

[RebeccaJ]

So do you ever think about some positives the LDS church has or is it all the falsehoods and how we are wrong…

I think we may have a little more in common than you think Rebecca. I’ll list some and you agree or disagree, ok?

-Families can be eternal
-We can live with God in heaven
-there is a hell
-We lived premortally with God
-We believe in Jesus Christ
-Obedience pleases God
-The Bible
-Christ was resurrected
-By God’s grace we can reach heaven
-Free will

And it can go on if you want.

mormonboy, LDS use many terms and phrases that have been redefined to mean
something other than their Christian origins.

• Families can be eternal - all who live with God live eternally. As one family with God. mormon “sealing” is not necessary, or valid
  -We can live with God in heaven - THE GOD IN THE HEAVEN, not a god in a heaven
  -there is a hell - I think Mormons are still out on this one.
  -We lived premortally with God - only a Mormon belief
  -We believe in Jesus Christ - WHO HE IS, can be discussed in light of mormon error in this matter
  -Obedience pleases God - agreed
  -The Bible - As the FINAL Revelation of GOD, also can discussed in light of mormon error
  -Christ was resurrected -agreed
  -By God’s grace we can reach heaven - Mormons do not understand “grace”.
  -Free will - agreed

 

[Scriptorian]

but if we look at the previous verse Jesus was asked about the women who had been widowed by three or four husbands and asked who’s wife she would be. that is when Jesus said this. there is no marriage in heaven and at death the marriage ends.

Tell you what, let’s take a look:

23 ¶ The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,
24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
27 And last of all the woman died also.
28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine. (Mathew 22:23-33)

First of all, the Sadducees who proposed the question did not believe in the resurrection. They were probably trying to trick Jesus into saying something about how the wife will belong to the first or the last husband “in the resurrection.” They weren’t asking about things “in heaven” by the way. Notice that the question was not “if any would have her” but “whose would she be.” Jesus astounded them by saying that “in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.” Then he basically closed the door on Sadducee beliefs altogether by saying that God is the God of the living and not the dead. In other words, there is a resurrection.

Mormons have a scripture that clarifies this issue:

15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever. (D&C 132:15-17)

Here is my theory. When you are resurrected, you are given a body. That body can never again be changed and will remain in that same state forever and ever. If the marriage question is not decided by that time, then you get a body that cannot procreate–which is one of the primary reasons for marriage in eternity.

 

[Scriptorian]

mormonboy, LDS use many terms and phrases that have been redefined to mean
something other than their Christian origins.

• Families can be eternal - all who live with God live eternally. As one family with God. mormon “sealing” is not necessary, or valid
  -We can live with God in heaven - THE GOD IN THE HEAVEN, not a god in a heaven
  -there is a hell - I think Mormons are still out on this one.
  -We lived premortally with God - only a Mormon belief
  -We believe in Jesus Christ - WHO HE IS, can be discussed in light of mormon error in this matter
  -Obedience pleases God - agreed
  -The Bible - As the FINAL Revelation of GOD, also can discussed in light of mormon error
  -Christ was resurrected -agreed
  -By God’s grace we can reach heaven - Mormons do not understand “grace”.
  -Free will - agreed

You are arguing against what you believed as a Mormon vs. what you believe now. We can’t help it that you misunderstood the doctrine when you belonged to our church.

God, Jesus, Hell, the Bible, Grace, etc.-- These concepts for us are much different than you seem to remember them.

Rebecca, I don’t mean to be harsh with you, but if we explain what we believe to this forum, it won’t do for you to say, “Actually you believe this…,” and then bash us for what you think we believe. You are going to have to take our word for it that we do actually believe what we say we believe.

 

[Scriptorian]

Armchair psychology, also predictable.

I thought armchairs were the norm among psychologists… or was it couches…?