C
cothrige
Guest
Hardheaded!?! Me?
- Status
S
Scriptorian
Guest
Interesting comparison between light/goodness and darkness/evil. I like it.
The absence of light, heat, or goodness does in fact cause death. You are right on point with that. But the way you describe darkness/evil is too passive for my taste. The devil/evil is much more aggressive and his kingdom is much more pernicious than just filling in the gaps that God/goodness leaves behind.
Notice the exchange between God and the Devil in the Book of Job. Satan actively pursues Job in order to destroy his soul. You’ll notice, however, that God must give Satan permission to attack Job. It is impossible for darkness to chase away light. But Light always chases away darkness.
So, for some reason, God has allowed Satan to have some power over mankind. I believe it is because God refuses to destroy free will. Free will is the only means for man to prove his worthiness to be an heir of salvation.
We also see that it is impossible for evil to chase away goodness. Evil must be allowed in through the exercise of a man’s free will. This, of course, is the condemnation of man. Evil only exists among us because mankind continues to choose evil rather than good.
S
Scriptorian
Guest
I agree with your definition, but would add:
Spiritual Death = Separation from God
Physical death = Separation of Body and Spirit
Hell = Spiritual Death + Physical Death
The atonement of Jesus Christ, then, overcomes physical and spiritual death, and allows us to be “at one” both spiritually and physically with God. Oh, boy, there I go again talking about being “one.”
C
cothrige
Guest
I think I understand what you are saying about passivity, but in the end I don’t think evil as the absence of good is really any more passive than otherwise. Just as liquid nitrogen can destroy your flesh evil as a choice can be quite actively destructive. But, it does not have to be a positive created reality in order to be so. I also have to say that I don’t really see the devil as the personification of evil that some do, but rather as one of God’s angels who fell and so chose evil. His moral choice is a powerful one, but in rejecting God he rejected everything God is, which is good, and as such he is evil.
I am not sure about proving his worthiness (haven’t given that much thought really) but I certainly agree about free will.
Yes, I would basically agree here. We certainly shouldn’t underestimate the power of evil. In my view it is like a vacuum pulling by its negative pressure and threatening to drag us in.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
If by paying you mean punishment, then we are in agreement.
The primary punishment of hell is separation from God.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
This makes no sense whatsoever.
S
Scriptorian
Guest
Finally!!
S
Scriptorian
Guest
Really? I don’t think I could have simplified it any more than I did. Which part doesn’t make sense? Don’t you agree that you have to be dead before you can go to hell?
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
That you believe all those things and still believe that being separated from God is a degree of “heaven”.
“Hell = Spiritual Death + Physical Death”
This describes terrestrial, telestial and outer darkness.
P
ParkerD
Guest
Just for the record,
The telestial kingdom (which is where those rescued from hell go) has the presence of the Holy Ghost, a member of the Godhead with love, light, and truth to bring to those who are resurrected to this glory which is a place of peace beyond our comprehension.
The terrestrial kingdom (which is where those go who lived by the commandments but didn’t seem to want the responsibility and covenant-making and truth-seeking to find the “hidden truths” talked about by Paul) has the presence of both the Holy Ghost and of Jesus Christ. This is a glory far beyond our comprehension, with love, light, and truth, and eternal peace.
The degrees of glory were taught in early Christianity, as Paul attests. Christ will be far more triumphant in His victory over Satan than general Christianity gives Him credit for.
The telestial kingdom (which is where those rescued from hell go) has the presence of the Holy Ghost, a member of the Godhead with love, light, and truth to bring to those who are resurrected to this glory which is a place of peace beyond our comprehension.
The terrestrial kingdom (which is where those go who lived by the commandments but didn’t seem to want the responsibility and covenant-making and truth-seeking to find the “hidden truths” talked about by Paul) has the presence of both the Holy Ghost and of Jesus Christ. This is a glory far beyond our comprehension, with love, light, and truth, and eternal peace.
The degrees of glory were taught in early Christianity, as Paul attests. Christ will be far more triumphant in His victory over Satan than general Christianity gives Him credit for.
S
Scriptorian
Guest
I have been reluctant to mention this because it is such a common misunderstanding among Mormons, but “Outer Darkness” is the same thing as Hell before the final judgment.
There is actually not a scriptural name for where Sons of Perdition go who are not allowed into the Telestial, Terrestrial, or Celestial. All it says is that no one knows their fate.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
God cannot be divided, split, to rule over different “kingdoms”. This is not a Christian belief. It is polytheist.
I think it is Mormons who have a problem with the greatness and glory of God. You diminish Him, severely.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
Z
zaffiroborant
Guest
How can God be more triumphant when he is divided into ruling his own little fiefdoms?? Catholicism has One God who triumphs over all, you have minor gods triumphing over little bits. How is that a bigger victory?
P
ParkerD
Guest
Zaffiroborant,
First, if you believe in the Trinity then if I understand correctly, you believe in a Spirit who can dwell everywhere in the universe. Christ could be baptized in the flesh, God’s voice could be heard from Heaven proclaiming His Beloved Son, and the Holy Ghost could be present also, yet there was “one presence” in that moment of time. So by your definition, God is present in all three kingdoms of glory.
In the celestial kingdom, Christ will be enthroned with God the Father, but Christ will also visit the resurrected souls in the terrestrial kingdom–not dwell there. The Holy Spirit’s presence will be in all three kingdoms of glory. The Father will be extending His love and of course the resurrected souls in the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms will feel that love, only they cannot dwell in His presence because they would feel uncomfortable being there.
Christ will triumph over Satan by delivering as many as will “bow the knee” and “confess” and repent of their sins, from hell (if they had to suffer there) or by restoring those who obeyed the gospel into their resurrected bodies and into a kingdom of glory which “eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor entered into the heart of man.” He also delivers all babies and young children who died young into the celestial heavenly kingdom. By the vastness of the numbers who go to a degree of heaven, and by the vastness of the eternal progression made available through Christ, it is a triumph far greater than Christianity generally acknowledges. It encompasses all people who have ever lived on this earth. He has been mindful of each and every person, and His plan has included each one from the Beginning. Hell will eventually only hold a few handfuls of people who rebelled against the pure witness of the Holy Ghost and thus rejected Christ with full knowledge of what they were doing.
Would not God the Father and Christ rejoice to have as many souls as possible delivered from hell and eternal torment? Is that not a triumph?
D
diggerdomer
Guest
according to the Catholic Church, no.When I was about 14, a couple of young, Mormon missionaries showed up at our door. They were very sweet young men, ate dinner with us several times and, of course, tried to convince us to be Mormon.
One of them explained that there was no Trinity.
I read part of another thread that seems to say that Mormons do believe in the Trinity.
So do Mormons believe in the Trintity like Catholics?
Can I get a straight forward answer, please?
That’s the simple, straightforward answer.
O
ojohn
Guest
And someone tell what say Gospel of John CH 8 v 54-58 and what says Ch 3 v-5-8 of Johns Gospel and also CH 20 v30-31 , and I must confess one of my favorite veres is found in Acts CH 3 v 6-7 and also I like Acts CH 4 v-12-13 and everyone have a blessed GOOD FRIDAY F_S_HS Amen
J
Jerusha
Guest
Mormonism is a religion of confusion. Confusion is not of God.
M
mormonboy
Guest
I figured you were from Utah… I would think you should already know the questions you asked me. But we will gladly try to answer your questions.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
I ask in relationship, and comparison, to Truth.
- Status