OK, I Am Confused. Do Mormons Believe In The Trinity?

[deb1]

My question has been answered. Thank you all.

 

[PaulDupre]

Many people, when they call themselves Trinitarians, actually are "modalists.’ That is, they believe that God is One Being with three different masks that He wears at different times or for different reasons.

What are you talking about? No Christian religion teaches that. The Book of Mormon does (see Mosiah 15:2-7), but Christianity does not.

Christians believe that the one God exists as a family of three persons, one in being but distinct in their persons.

 

[zerinus]

As you’ve already seen on this thread, Mormons believe in a trinity, just not the Trinity

Not correct. We beleive in the the Trinity of the Bible.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Correction: as FORMALIZED in the Nicene Creed-please don’t play down the fact that the early Christians believed in the Trinity.

They beleived in the Trinity of the Bible, as we do. They did not believe in the Trinity as you understand it.

zerinus

 

[DLClark]

No they do not. Mormons are polythiests.

 

[zerinus]

It doesn’t matter which thread, your answer should be NO, plain and simple.

Not true. We believe in the Trinity of the Bible—the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. They are three distinct and separate personages. That is what the Bible teaches; what the early Christians and the Apostles believed; and it is also what we believe.

zerinus

 

[dianaiad]

What are you talking about? No Christian religion teaches that. The Book of Mormon does (see Mosiah 15:2-7), but Christianity does not.

Christians believe that the one God exists as a family of three persons, one in being but distinct in their persons.

Well, I’m quite certain that the Modalists involved think that they are Christians, whether you think they are or not.

 

[majick275]

Not true. We believe in the Trinity of the Bible—the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. They are three distinct and separate personages. That is what the Bible teaches; what the early Christians and the Apostles believed; and it is also what we believe.

zerinus

actually mormons are henotheistic as they believe infinite Gods exist but only worship Elohim.

 

[Erich]

So, to answer the original question of this thread: LDS do not believe in the Trinity. We do not believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one in substance. We believe that they are three separate persons/beings, one in purpose and goals.

Not true. We believe in the Trinity of the Bible—the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. They are three distinct and separate personages. That is what the Bible teaches; what the early Christians and the Apostles believed; and it is also what we believe.

Hmm, there is clearly a difference of opinion among LDS as to what LDS believe.

Since John 10:30 teaches “The Father and I are one” (not “The Father and I are of one purpose”) and since lds.org states “Among the most important differences with other Christian churches are those concerning the nature of God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Together, these form what is commonly referred to as the Holy Trinity in many churches and as the Godhead by Latter-day Saints” clearly LDSGuy, not zerinus, has it right.

In fact, the only change that needs to be made to the above quote from lds.org is to strike the word “other”

 

[LDSGuy]

Hmm, there is clearly a difference of opinion among LDS as to what LDS believe.

Since John 10:30 teaches “The Father and I are one” (not “The Father and I are of one purpose”) and since lds.org states “Among the most important differences with other Christian churches are those concerning the nature of God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Together, these form what is commonly referred to as the Holy Trinity in many churches and as the Godhead by Latter-day Saints” clearly LDSGuy, not zerinus, has it right.

In fact, the only change that needs to be made to the above quote from lds.org is to strike the word “other”

No there is no difference in opinion. Zerinus clearly makes a distinction between the Trinity of traditional Christianity and the Trinity of the Bible. As we both said, we believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate personages, united in purpose and goals as one Godhead. We believe that that belief is found in the Bible. I prefer not to use the word Trinity to describe this belief, as it confuses those of traditional Christianity. Zerinus says we believe in the “Trinity of the Bible”, which is, again, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, three separate personages, united in purpose (Tri (3 separate, distinct beings)-unity (united in purpose, not substance). That is what he means. No difference in opinion, save for using the word Trinity to refer to our beliefs is just confusing and misleading, in my opinion.

“Since John 10:30 teaches “The Father and I are one”…”-of course this doesn’t say “are one in being, or substance”, anymore than it says “one in purpose”, therefore we have to look at everything in context.

 

[RebeccaJ]

No there is no difference in opinion. Zerinus clearly makes a distinction between the Trinity of traditional Christianity and the Trinity of the Bible. As we both said, we believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate personages, united in purpose and goals as one Godhead. We believe that that belief is found in the Bible. I prefer not to use the word Trinity to describe this belief, as it confuses those of traditional Christianity. Zerinus says we believe in the “Trinity of the Bible”, which is, again, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, three separate personages, united in purpose (Tri (3 separate, distinct beings)-unity (united in purpose, not substance). That is what he means. No difference in opinion, save for using the word Trinity to refer to our beliefs is just confusing and misleading, in my opinion.

“Since John 10:30 teaches “The Father and I are one”…”-of course this doesn’t say “are one in being, or substance”, anymore than it says “one in purpose”, therefore we have to look at everything in context.

I’ll just say: told ya so.

Yeah, it would nice if Mormons looked at everything in context.

 

[DLClark]

sweetnay:
Mormons do not accept the Biblical view of the Trinity. hey say they do but the three member of their trinity are not the same one God as the Bible teaches. Their trinty are 3 separate Gods. They are created beings and eternal.

 

[Erich]

“Since John 10:30 teaches “The Father and I are one”…”-of course this doesn’t say “are one in being, or substance”, anymore than it says “one in purpose”, therefore we have to look at everything in context.

How 'bout looking at it in the Greek that John’s Gospel was written in?

The meaning of Jesus is clear because the word for “one” in Greek is neuter. The Father and the Son are one in essence. Jesus’ claim to be one with God (and therefore God) was unmistakable; that is why the Jewish leaders of the day wanted to kill him (their laws said that anyone claiming to be God should die for blasphemy).

More context:

Deuteronomy 6:4

Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One

Deuteronomy 32:39

Learn then that I, I alone, am God, and there is no god besides me. It is I who bring both death and life, I who inflict wounds and heal them, and from my hand there is no rescue.

John 10:28-30

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand. The Father and I are one."

Jesus has just taken one of the most monotheistic statements from Deuteronomy and applied it to himself, including himself with the Father in its affirmation. Would the Jewish leaders of the day have wanted to kill Jesus if all He were claiming was that He and the Father are of one purpose?

 

[zerinus]

I prefer not to use the word Trinity to describe this belief, as it confuses those of traditional Christianity.

I am in favor of using it because using it is actually less confusing than not using it; and it is also historically more accurate. The anti-Mormons who like to say that Mormons do not believe in the Trinity want to create the false impression that we don’t believe in the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost, which of course we do. Historically it is also more accurate. Originally Trinity did not mean what they mean by it. The word Trinity literally means three. Its original use came about out of the scriptural contexts in which the three names are used or invoke together, such as in the baptismal formula for example: “in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost”. It simply referred to the three members of the Godhead. It referred to Three! Well, we also believe in the Three. So we believe in the true Trinity, and they believe in the false one.

zerinus

 

[dianaiad]

actually mormons are henotheistic as they believe infinite Gods exist but only worship Elohim.

That would be an accurate assessment, if we are going to get picky, yes. Of course, by the same picky token, I guess that Christians in general are polytheists…certainly in comparison to the true monotheists among us, like Judaism and Islam. :ehh:

 

[Bill_Pick]

They deny the Christian belief in the Trinity. For them there are three distinct persons, each a separate God, as their founder Joseph Smith taught.

“I will preach on the plurality of gods. Many men say there is one God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and they are truly one God. I say this is a strange God…three in one and one in three…”
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 1974 p. 372)
. Mormon doctrine again reveals how contradictory it is, for Smith’s teaching on the plurality of gods is not contained in the Book of Mormon. In fact the Book upholds the Christian belief in the Trinity.

“And now behold this is the doctrine of Christ and the only one true doctrine of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost WHICH IS ONE GOD without end.”
(II Nephi 31:21)
. Now either the Book of Mormon is in error, a book Smith claimed to be the most correct of any on this earth because it was translated by the direct power of God and contained the fullness of the everlasting gospel, or the so-called Prophet of God is in error. Such is the Mormon dilemma

 

[LDSGuy]

They deny the Christian belief in the Trinity. For them there are three distinct persons, each a separate God, as their founder Joseph Smith taught.

“I will preach on the plurality of gods. Many men say there is one God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and they are truly one God. I say this is a strange God…three in one and one in three…”
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 1974 p. 372)
. Mormon doctrine again reveals how contradictory it is, for Smith’s teaching on the plurality of gods is not contained in the Book of Mormon. In fact the Book upholds the Christian belief in the Trinity.

“And now behold this is the doctrine of Christ and the only one true doctrine of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost WHICH IS ONE GOD without end.”
(II Nephi 31:21)
. Now either the Book of Mormon is in error, a book Smith claimed to be the most correct of any on this earth because it was translated by the direct power of God and contained the fullness of the everlasting gospel, or the so-called Prophet of God is in error. Such is the Mormon dilemma

Yes we’ve established that we Latter-day Saints believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate beings. This is not contradictory to II Nephi, because we believe they are one God, united in purpose, intent, will, and love.

 

[dianaiad]

Hmm, there is clearly a difference of opinion among LDS as to what LDS believe.

Since John 10:30 teaches “The Father and I are one” (not “The Father and I are of one purpose”) and since lds.org states “Among the most important differences with other Christian churches are those concerning the nature of God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Together, these form what is commonly referred to as the Holy Trinity in many churches and as the Godhead by Latter-day Saints” clearly LDSGuy, not zerinus, has it right.

In fact, the only change that needs to be made to the above quote from lds.org is to strike the word “other”

Yes, that verse says “My Father and I are one.” But the verse immediately preceding that one says “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”

He obviously separated Himself from His Father there; after all, He did not say “I gave them to myself,” did He? Therefore if He and His Father are One, it’s obviously not in the way you are presenting. In fact, in that same book, John, chapter 17, He expands upon this: He says, in a prayer directed to His Father (and if they are one, why is He praying to Himself?)

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Well, nobody can argue that the followers of Jesus shared one ‘essence’ or that they are ‘one’ in the way that you describe the Trinity to be ‘one.’

Yet Christ is asking His father to make them one as He and His Father are. Seems to me that this is very telling. Having read this, I cannot accept the traditional view of the Trinity; but if the Three Members of the Godhead are one in purpose…that works with all the scriptures. It makes sense.

Call it an Occam’s razor sort of thing; the simplist description is usually the best one. I love it that William of Ockham was a Franciscan friar.

 

[LDSGuy]

the real question here is, what does “one” mean? Is it one in being/substance (Catholic, Orthodox, the rest of traditional Trinitarian Christianity), or one in purpose (LDS).

 

[DLClark]

LDSGuy
In John 10:27-35 you find both God the Father and Christ involed in the believers eternal security. The is how both are the same God. They both secure the believer forever. This how Christ is God. Only God can give eternal life forever to the bleiver and both God the Father and God the Son do this. This is why the Jews took up stones to stone Christ because He was claiming to be God. Read the complet text.