Yes, when I was LDS (in the 70’s and 80’s) I was taught that Elohim (Heavenly Father) was the Christ of another world. That would necessarily mean that Elohim led a sinless life as Jesus did.
Imagine then my surprise when just a few years ago I read in the Gospel Principles manual:
This last part of the quote makes it sound like Elohim was a sinner who “succeeded” in gaining salvation and exaltation. With Jesus, at least from the Christian POV, there was never a possibility that Jesus could not have succeeded because Jesus is fully God as well as fully man. Jesus was God before, during and after his earthly life. From the Mormon POV, Elohim was not God (or a god) until after he “succeeded” in his earth life. After that, according to Joseph Smith, Elohim became God.
Paul,
I’m glad you brought that up. I teach Gospel Essentials in my ward, and I agree that that particular statement is misleading. I didn’t like it the first time I read, because of the very thing that it implies and that is not consistent with Joseph Smith’s full King Follett Sermon. You will probably be aware that manuals in the LDS church are usually done by committee, who seek inspiration but who may not get everything perfectly right. God is perfect, but man is not; therefore, what I have said on these threads about doctrine needing to have come from either the scriptures or the united written words of the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles is a true principle in terms of phrases such as that one.
Here are some pertinent quotes from the King Follett Sermon from TJPJS, pp. 346-347:
“He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.
…What did Jesus say? …Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again.”
A footnote (by Joseph Fielding Smith) notes the scripture in John 5:19. There is also a related passage in John 10:18. They say:
5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth:
10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Back to the King Follett Sermon:
“…What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do, when worlds came rolling into existence. My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same;”
From these quotes, Paul, I think it is clear that Joseph Smith was saying that Jesus did what the Father did when the Father was a “man”–which would be consistent with saying that the Father lived a perfect, sinless life when he “dwelt on an earth.” Whether the Father was also a Savior to a prior “universe”, could be inferred but I don’t think the sermon necessarily infers that.
So I think that the Gospel Principles manual should be modified slightly to either take out the sentence you highlighted, or to explain better what Joseph Smith said.
It is so important to understand that what the Savior did in the pre-mortal world was unimaginably selfless. He understood that (1) He himself could go to an earth, live a sinless life, return to His Father in Heaven spotless and thus “glorify” His Father by having gone through the temptations of mortality and the sicknesses and frustrations of mortality yet living perfectly every second of His life. He also understood that (2) not one of us, His much younger spirit brothers and sisters, could have any possibility of going to an earth and living a sinless life, so we could not return and live in the Father’s presence, because God the Father’s nature is that nothing imperfect can be in His presence without “burning” or being “cast out” of His presence.
So Jesus offered His own life on earth, knowing He would have to suffer incredible pain in the atonement and the crucifixion, yet He was willing to do so because of His perfect love for us and His faith in His own transcendent capability to suffer that infinite amount of suffering. He knew that the eternal law of equity or justice dictated that sins must have an offsetting punishment. Even every little mistake of anger or misjudging people (like I did with you some time back) must weigh in a balance and receive a punishment for that mistake–something we could never do for ourselves and still return to the Father’s presence clean and pure.
I hope you have been able to follow this. Have a wonderful day, sincerely. We of course are enjoying General Conference, the best one I ever remember in my life as far as every talk being superb.
