OK, I Am Confused. Do Mormons Believe In The Trinity?

[appaloosablue]

Really? Again, wishful thinking.

I think in order to even begin such a discussion, you would have to actually read the book. I cannot even begin to explain all of the things that the Book of Mormon gets right. Every page, every verse, every phrase leads a man to believe on Jesus Christ. You must read the book to know that anything that leads a man to Christ is good.

No, but I can explain 1400 years and an extensive period of darkness in world history and a sad amount of Church-sponsored violence and war and false doctrine as well as the splintering of Christianity into a million pieces.

If the Catholic Church was truly the steward of Christianity over the past two millennia, what a pathetic and slothful steward she has been. In fact, it is only in the last couple of centuries that Catholicism has even cared to try to fully align themselves with the scriptures.

As an ex-Mormon can you please explain the bigotry perpetrated by the Mormons against Black and Indian peoples. Don’t cast stones and have us believe that the history of the Mormon religion is unblemished.

 

[PaulDupre]

“That they may be one, even as we are one.” Profound.

I find it far less difficult to imagine perfect unity than to come up with a reason Jesus would be praying so fervently to himself.

Jesus never prayed to Himself; He prayed to God The Father. Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit are one being who exists as three distinct persons.

The constant Mormon/Muslim refrain that Jesus prayed to Himself simply betrays the fact that neither Mormons nor Muslims are able to distinguish between persons and beings. It makes you look stupid; you should stop it.

 

[RebeccaJ]

That’s not what you said, Rebecca. You said that you received a testimony the book wasn’t true. That has never happened before to my knowledge. Will you describe the experience or were you just being facetious?

I know why you said it. But tongue in cheek lying, is still lying.

I know the mormon church is not true, and that JS was not a prophet of God. Yes, I really do know this.

You see God led me to His Church, the one He founded on the Apostles. I pray with them, all the angels and saints, the prophets and the Blessed Virgin. I know I can do this because the Church Triumphant, in heaven, is the same Church here on earth. The Kingdom of God has been established.

This isn’t a lie.

 

[cothrige]

Hi Cothrige – For us, the Trinity is what’s refered to as a Mystery. We may not ever be able to fully understand it or unpack it in this lifetime. But it’s still the truth. Jesus proceeds from the Father and the Holy Spirit is the love shared between them.

In searching for some material that would be good resoures, I happened upon some terrific interviews, etc with Dr. Scott Hahn. One of his best books, and according to Dr. Hahn his most important, is FIRST COMES LOVE. He is one of the most recent, best people I know of who can help anyone better understand the Trinity as Catholic’s (and most other Christians for that matter) understand the Father, Son and Holy Spirt.

excerptsofinri.com/scotthahn-ewtn.html#First_Comes_Love

Thanks for the link, and the information. However, I do hope I didn’t lead you to believe that I was doubting the Trinity? I too am a Catholic and believe fully in the Trinitarian God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And I do very much appreciate the info. I don’t think one can ever fully plumb the depths of that subject.

 

[Irish_Kathy]

Thanks for the link, and the information. However, I do hope I didn’t lead you to believe that I was doubting the Trinity? I too am a Catholic and believe fully in the Trinitarian God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And I do very much appreciate the info. I don’t think one can ever fully plumb the depths of that subject.

Hi Cothrige I’m glad you appreciate the link. I just found it myself. Maybe someone else here will find it useful too. I’m sorry I misinterpreted what you had to say.

Kathy

 

[ParkerD]

Rebecca and Jerusha,
I noticed the dialogue about the Book of Mormon and how you each prayed about it. Why would God answer your prayers in a way you didn’t want? He wouldn’t do that. You have each said how satisfied you are with Catholicism, how you feel it is true, and brings you all the happiness you want in your lives. The Book of Mormon is for people who are searching for more truth in their life, not for people who have exactly all of the truth that they want.

God will never dissuade you from believing in something that you want and that draws you closer to Christ than you were before. I’m glad you have what you have, and are content with it. (Personally, I wouldn’t be, having read the Bible ten times or more. I would be dissatisfied with the differences.) May you each continue to be blessed by the truths that you incorporate into your lives, sincerely.

 

[cothrige]

Sorry, I guess I should have considered that I may be talking to a perfect individual.

Well, now you know.

Maybe this scripture would help, although you may have seen it before:

“That they may be one, even as we are one.” Profound.

I find it far less difficult to imagine perfect unity than to come up with a reason Jesus would be praying so fervently to himself.

I am not suggesting that perfect unity, as you are presenting it, is impossible to imagine, or that such cannot exist or does not exist. I actually believe that God is perfectly united just as you say, only more so. What I am saying is that this unity as you present it, regardless of how perfect, cannot explain how one can use the singular term God when referring collectively to the LDS Godhead. And, though of course I disagree with you about whether Jesus was praying to himself, this being a basic misunderstanding of Trinitarian dogma, I don’t think it addresses this issue. If the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three entirely distinct beings, united even perfectly in purpose and will, one simply cannot call them collectively God.

In the Trinity there are three persons, but they are united not just in purpose or will but in being, and therefore they are one God. There are not three beings, but only one being. While the Trinitarian Dogma itself may be open to dispute, as you would do with your interpretation of that particular verse, it does still answer the question of how we can speak of God, in the singular, while referring to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit collectively. The LDS position, as I understand it, is very different. It rejects any unity in being, which is the only thing making that terminology possible, and yet somehow LDS still speak of the Godhead collectively using the singular word God. I believe this is a self-contradicting position. Either there is one being, God, or more than one being, Gods. Taken as it stands, and given the usage of the term God for the LDS Godhead, there is only one possible understanding of your position. That would be that, while there is no unity in being in the Godhead, the unity in purpose and will among the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is so perfect that it means they have unity in being. I just don’t think that approach is tenable.

 

[cothrige]

Hi Cothrige I’m glad you appreciate the link. I just found it myself. Maybe someone else here will find it useful too. I’m sorry I misinterpreted what you had to say.

Kathy

Please Kathy, don’t apologise. I am sure that any misunderstanding was entirely my own doing. I just wanted you to know that I am in fact a Trinitarian like yourself.

And thanks again for the info.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca and Jerusha,
I noticed the dialogue about the Book of Mormon and how you each prayed about it. Why would God answer your prayers in a way you didn’t want? He wouldn’t do that. You have each said how satisfied you are with Catholicism, how you feel it is true, and brings you all the happiness you want in your lives. The Book of Mormon is for people who are searching for more truth in their life, not for people who have exactly all of the truth that they want.

God will never dissuade you from believing in something that you want and that draws you closer to Christ than you were before. I’m glad you have what you have, and are content with it. (Personally, I wouldn’t be, having read the Bible ten times or more. I would be dissatisfied with the differences.) May you each continue to be blessed by the truths that you incorporate into your lives, sincerely.

ParkerD, I appreciate the humor.

 

[appaloosablue]

If the Mormon Church is the true church and the Book of Mormon is true why does the Mormon Church continually revise and change the BOM. If you read a modern copy of the BOM and then compare it to a version say 75 years old there are significant differences. The LDS Church has changed its doctrine as they saw fit. The teachings of Jesus Christ have never changed.

When I was an LDS member I was taught that your goal in this life was follow the doctrine so that you could become a god after you passed on from this world. Of course this only related to men as women would just be the ‘spiritual bearer’ of the children that would populate this ‘god’s’ world. The Mormon view on God differs significantly from that of Catholic. Catholics believe that God always was and ever shall be, that he was not created. Mormon believe that the god of this world in which they live was a man that has been raised to godhood from living a perfect Mormon life on another world.

 

[why_me]

You see God led me to His Church,

This isn’t a lie.

I agree. I do believe that god led you to the catholic church because he wants what is best for you. He knew that you could not accept the lds church and so, he led you to the catholic church. However, I would be very surprised if he wants you to attack the lds church. I think that he would want you to find peace with the lds church and have peace in your soul. But yes, he did lead you to the catholic church not because the lds church is not true but because the catholic church is what works for you.

 

[why_me]

I also have read the BOM, studied it, even to the point of translating it into plain Englaish. I have prayed over it. The Holy Spirit has also told me that it is not true. I could even go so far as to say that parts of it come from a very unholy spirit.

I am sorry, but when that crashes, everything else crashes. And your endless speculations about the nature, and the Mystery of the Trinity are pointless.

When I was 18 I prayed about the book of mormon and received a powerful witness of the book of mormon. I will never deny that witness. But that in itself would not make me a good mormon. I find comfort in the catholic church but I will deny my witness.

 

[mormonboy]

If the Mormon Church is the true church and the Book of Mormon is true why does the Mormon Church continually revise and change the BOM. If you read a modern copy of the BOM and then compare it to a version say 75 years old there are significant differences. The LDS Church has changed its doctrine as they saw fit. The teachings of Jesus Christ have never changed.

The teachings and principles of the Book are what makes it perfect. The doctrines of the church are eternal. It was translated by Joseph Smith with no prior knowledge, leaving Joseph to rely solely on the power of God. The errors were Joseph’s errors not Gods.

When I was an LDS member I was taught that your goal in this life was follow the doctrine so that you could become a god after you passed on from this world. Of course this only related to men as women would just be the ‘spiritual bearer’ of the children that would populate this ‘god’s’ world. The Mormon view on God differs significantly from that of Catholic. Catholics believe that God always was and ever shall be, that he was not created. Mormon believe that the god of this world in which they live was a man that has been raised to godhood from living a perfect Mormon life on another world.

Do you think that heaven shouldn’t have something more to do? I understand your viewpoint but we can progress in this life by obedience, why couldn’t we in the next?

 

[Scriptorian]

Jesus never prayed to Himself; He prayed to God The Father. Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit are one being who exists as three distinct persons.

The constant Mormon/Muslim refrain that Jesus prayed to Himself simply betrays the fact that neither Mormons nor Muslims are able to distinguish between persons and beings. It makes you look stupid; you should stop it.

We can’t distinguish between persons and beings? That doesn’t sound like a problem to me. Somehow that makes me stupid?

You just said that Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit are one being who exists as three distinct persons. That, my friend, makes no sense. Are you are saying they are different persons at different times? If you are saying they can be different persons at the same time and still remain as “one being” you’ve got logic problems.

 

[Ross09]

We can’t distinguish between persons and beings? That doesn’t sound like a problem to me. Somehow that makes me stupid?

You just said that Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit are one being who exists as three distinct persons. That, my friend, makes no sense. Are you are saying they are different persons at different times? If you are saying they can be different persons at the same time and still remain as “one being” you’ve got logic problems.

The Trinity is not different persons at different times…that’s Modalism and a heresy not accepted by Christianity.

The Triune God of Christianity is One Being with Three persons. One way to understand this “mystery” is to consider how an animal, say a cat is one Being with no “person”; a man is one Being and one Person. God is One Being, Three Persons at all times: Father, Son, Holy Ghost.

 

[mormonboy]

When I was 18 I prayed about the book of mormon and received a powerful witness of the book of mormon. I will never deny that witness. But that in itself would not make me a good mormon. I find comfort in the catholic church but I will deny my witness.

So you received a witness but don’t act upon that it?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

We can’t distinguish between persons and beings? That doesn’t sound like a problem to me. Somehow that makes me stupid?

You just said that Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit are one being who exists as three distinct persons. That, my friend, makes no sense. Are you are saying they are different persons at different times? If you are saying they can be different persons at the same time and still remain as “one being” you’ve got logic problems.

This is how Catholics comprehend the trinity:

The deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty.

What the Father is, the Son is, and so is the Holy Spirit.

The Father is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite. Eternal is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit: And yet there are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal; as there are not three uncreated and unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated and unlimited.

Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the Spirit: And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is almighty.

Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God: And yet there are not three gods, but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord: And yet there are not three lords, but one Lord.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten; the Son was neither made nor created, but was alone begotten of the Father; the Spirit was neither made nor created, but is proceeding from the Father and the Son.

And in this Trinity, no one is before or after, greater or less than the other; but all three persons are in themselves, coeternal and coequal; and so we must worship the Trinity in unity and the one God in three persons.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

The Trinity is a mystery that we as human beings can not completely understand. All we know is that there is One God, We know that there is a Father, Son, And Holy Ghost. That they are one in being and substance,Yet each are also separate. How this is possible we do not know. That is why it is a mystery.

The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Ghost is God. but the Father is not the Son nor is the Son the Father, but the Father and Son are one.

The Father was never a man he has been the Father and God since eternity past, the Son has always been as well. for was scriptuer says it was through the word of God that creation was made. and the Gospel of St John tells us that Jesus is the Word.

The problem is that we are using finite word and understanding to describe a infinite Being God ( the Trinity)

 

[mormonboy]

The Trinity is a mystery that we as human beings can not completely understand. All we know is that there is One God, We know that there is a Father, Son, And Holy Ghost. That they are one in being and substance,Yet each are also separate. How this is possible we do not know. That is why it is a mystery.

The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Ghost is God. but the Father is not the Son nor is the Son the Father, but the Father and Son are one.

The Father was never a man he has been the Father and God since eternity past, the Son has always been as well. for was scriptuer says it was through the word of God that creation was made. and the Gospel of St John tells us that Jesus is the Word.

The problem is that we are using finite word and understanding to describe a infinite Being God ( the Trinity)

mormons believe in the concept of a Godhead. The Godhead is God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost one in purpose, but separate beings. Everything they do they are unified as one. Each took on individual roles in order to make God’s eternal plan work.

 

[PaulDupre]

Rebecca and Jerusha,
I noticed the dialogue about the Book of Mormon and how you each prayed about it. Why would God answer your prayers in a way you didn’t want? He wouldn’t do that. You have each said how satisfied you are with Catholicism, how you feel it is true, and brings you all the happiness you want in your lives. The Book of Mormon is for people who are searching for more truth in their life, not for people who have exactly all of the truth that they want.

God will never dissuade you from believing in something that you want and that draws you closer to Christ than you were before. I’m glad you have what you have, and are content with it. (Personally, I wouldn’t be, having read the Bible ten times or more. I would be dissatisfied with the differences.) May you each continue to be blessed by the truths that you incorporate into your lives, sincerely.

I get really tired of this arrogant prideful refrain of “if you have all the truth you want, then that’s fine even though we have more truth”.

Listen bud, just because you Mormons believe in weirder, more exotic things than we believe, that doesn’t mean you have more truth. The Scientologists also believe far more exotic things than Catholics do, but they don’t have more truth either - just more beliefs.