OK, I Am Confused. Do Mormons Believe In The Trinity?

[Scriptorian]

Yes, one-ness as you say is not foreign to English. However, even married couples who are one flesh are still a couple in English. They always are. If you see a married couple, regardless of how perfect their unity in purpose, you could not say “Look at that human over there…” meaning both of them. They are two beings, and therefore you must say humans. Multiple beings equals plural words.

You don’t refer to a married couple usually as humans. You usually refer to them as “a family.” One family. Similarly, when you unify the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost together they are “one God.”

And you are still left with the problem of your objection to the alleged unity in the Trinity. You have objected to that, even though the Trinity is defined as one being, and yet you seem comfortable referring to three separate beings as if they were one. I have no problem with levels of unity, or the purported perfect unity of purpose and will in the LDS Godhead. However, I really don’t see why LDS don’t use the term Gods when referring to that Godhead, rather than God. It seems an inconsistency.

Though technically correct, it is probably not proper to refer to them as “gods.” To do so, minimizes their perfect unity and presupposes that they might use their authority independent of one another. They are one God, as the Book of Mormon teaches constantly.

I will admit that I may have misunderstood your point regarding Hebrew. But, it did seem to me that you were using the plurality of the word Elohim as the keystone to your view, and given that we were discussing the use of the word God to refer collectively to the entirety of the LDS Godhead, not just Elohim who would be one third of that party, I just don’t see how it really applies. Then there is the fact that Hebrew would seem somewhat less than germane. God, as a word, is not somehow drawn directly from the Hebrew at all, much less Elohim. I would think if you meant to speak of Elohim you would perhaps just say Elohim, or perhaps just Father or some such. I really cannot see how the etymology of the word Elohim has any real impact on the meaning or usage of the English word God at this point, and if it did, I can’t see how it does in the case of the entire LDS Godhead.

At this point I will admit to you that I am far less versed in Hebrew than I would like to be. However, I know this: Elohim is a title. It is both a plural word and a singular depending on the context. In the singular, it may refer to God the Father alone due to the fact that he is accurately described as “God” and “Head of the Gods.” It may also appropriately refer, though less often, to the “Godhead” or the plurality of beings known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

This is one of those words that Hebrew scholars could spend years studying, but we don’t have that much time.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

mormons believe in the concept of a Godhead. The Godhead is God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost one in purpose, but separate beings. Everything they do they are unified as one. Each took on individual roles in order to make God’s eternal plan work.

That is were the the Mormons error on the nature of God, as the Trinity is one in substance and being, not 3 desperate acting in accord.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

The lds have solved part of the mystery by claiming distinct beings. They are one in purpose.

NO they have excepted a heresy. The mystery is not one to be solved it is one that can only be understood when we stand before the throne in Glory.

 

[why_me]

NO they have excepted a heresy. The mystery is not one to be solved it is one that can only be understood when we stand before the throne in Glory.

Personally, I don’t consider it to be that important. Whether one believes in this or that about the trinity is a non-issue for me. However, mormons and catholics honor the Jesus, Heavenly Father, and the holy ghost/spirit. This is what is important in the long run. I cannot see god, sweating over this issue. There are more pressing issues to sweat over in this world.

 

[why_me]

That is understandable. I also have received a strong witness, not only manifest in prayer, but in everything the church has to offer. Some points of doctrine cannot be understood by man only because God reveals truths on his timetable, not on ours’.

One major fear I have is knowing the church is true can bring us down if we do not follow it’s teachings. There is no denial of a witness once received verbally, if you did that would be denying the Holy Ghost, which is the biggest sin… Once someone doesn’t follow their witness and do righteous acts, they are denying the H.G. in a sense. You aren’t saying you deny him straight up per say, but we deny his promptings in such a case. Something like that just makes me want to obey God’s precepts even more…

When members leave the lds church they begin to rationalize that feeling by calling it a warm fuzzy. I suppose that it is their way to rationalize their decision. For me, I will never call it a warm fuzzy. It was much too powerful for that.

I do believe that god dwells in holy places with the holy spirit. The two churches where I felt the spirit dwell have been the catholic church and the lds church. We can call the holy ghost the great comforter and in both churches I have been comforted.

However, that being said, I must wonder if the catholic posters here who mock the lds church feel the holy spirit when they attend mass. I sense that they have too much hostility for such a feeling to exist. But I also believe that on these boards people are letting off life steam. In real life, they are as nice as pie to Mormons and to other relgious groupings.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Personally, I don’t consider it to be that important. Whether one believes in this or that about the trinity is a non-issue for me. However, mormons and catholics honor the Jesus, Heavenly Father, and the holy ghost/spirit. This is what is important in the long run. I cannot see god, sweating over this issue. There are more pressing issues to sweat over in this world.

You really believe God does not care if people believe that there are other gods or not?

 

[appaloosablue]

I can see where you are coming from… I never said anything about becoming a God even though it is no secret I do have that in my belief system.

Just out of curiosity, what do you believe is our purpose in the this life and the next? I assume you believe in a heaven and a hell… What does that serve as?

Is the Bible from God? I know with a surety the Bible is inspired of God just as the Book of Mormon is… Has the Bible been altered? In fact, how many versions of the Bible are there currently? I can name a lot. Religions have twisted the meaning of phrases from the Bible to have the make it what they want it to be… Most of the edits of the B.O.M. have been in adding an index and cross-references for help.

Well the purpose in this life is to prepare ones self to enter the Kingdom of Heaven and then once there to just be with God. It would seem to me that you think that just being in the presence of God would not be enough–this is a human thought/desire.

Heaven and Hell are rewards and punishments in simple terms. To be eternally with God or eternally without God.

I will concede that the Bible has changed and different religions have altered it to fit their needs. But the simple fact is that doctrine within the BOM has changed not just simple additions of an index or cross references.

 

[appaloosablue]

Are you saying that the doctrine of the trinity is not supposed to be understood?

We can understand to a point but we cannot understand it fully in this life. Perhaps in Heaven once in the presence of God we will be able to fully understand it.

Do you understand where Heaven is, can you draw me a map to it? Do you full understand the location of Heaven?

 

[mormonboy]

Well the purpose in this life is to prepare ones self to enter the Kingdom of Heaven and then once there to just be with God. It would seem to me that you think that just being in the presence of God would not be enough–this is a human thought/desire.

Heaven and Hell are rewards and punishments in simple terms. To be eternally with God or eternally without God.

I will concede that the Bible has changed and different religions have altered it to fit their needs. But the simple fact is that doctrine within the BOM has changed not just simple additions of an index or cross references.

I can agree that heaven and hell are consequences. Think about it though, as parent, I assume you would want the best for your kids? I just don’t see God as a loving father would just want to send us directly to hell eternally. God has allowed us to obtain experience in this life by sending us here in order to achieve more. In my opinion, it just seems strange God wouldn’t want us to progress in the next life.

I disagree with your accusation the Book of Mormon has been changed. Have you read it? It has been edited but never has the teachings been revised.

 

[mormonboy]

We can understand to a point but we cannot understand it fully in this life. Perhaps in Heaven once in the presence of God we will be able to fully understand it.

Do you understand where Heaven is, can you draw me a map to it? Do you full understand the location of Heaven?

I agree, it is our responsibility to pursue God, but I do not think God would not want us to know who or what God is or to know his nature. How can we worship a God we don’t know?

 

[appaloosablue]

I can agree that heaven and hell are consequences. Think about it though, as parent, I assume you would want the best for your kids? I just don’t see God as a loving father would just want to send us directly to hell eternally. God has allowed us to obtain experience in this life by sending us here in order to achieve more. In my opinion, it just seems strange God wouldn’t want us to progress in the next life.

I disagree with your accusation the Book of Mormon has been changed. Have you read it? It has been edited but never has the teachings been revised.

You feel this way because the god you believe in was once a human. He is not God eternal. Maybe God does have additional plans for us once in Heaven but I do not presume to know this.

Yes I have read parts of the BOM, I was LDS for 18 years. I have come from a long line of LDS members. In fact Brigham Young is a direct relative. My grandparents have done 5 missions since retiring. Most of my relatives live in Utah and claim the LDS faith. I do not blindly discuss these matters. Frankly, I could never finish it–I always felt when reading that it was phony.

Since becoming Catholic I have been hounded by missionaries, ex-communicated, had my marriage sealed by proxy, told I am going to outer-darkness because I am making such poor decisions in this life by becoming Catholic, told that I would be sealed to another man and so would my children. It seems to me that the LDS have provisions to make sure in all situations you will end up in the “best place” to point that after a person’s death they can still be saved by those on earth. That indicates that the belief is that once LDS you are on par with God Himself.

 

[appaloosablue]

i agree, it is our responsibility to pursue god, but i do not think god would not want us to know who or what god is or to know his nature. How can we worship a god we don’t know?

faith

 

[LDSGuy]

You feel this way because the god you believe in was once a human. He is not God eternal. Maybe God does have additional plans for us once in Heaven but I do not presume to know this.

Yes I have read parts of the BOM, I was LDS for 18 years. I have come from a long line of LDS members. In fact Brigham Young is a direct relative. My grandparents have done 5 missions since retiring. Most of my relatives live in Utah and claim the LDS faith. I do not blindly discuss these matters. Frankly, I could never finish it–I always felt when reading that it was phony.

Since becoming Catholic I have been hounded by missionaries, ex-communicated, had my marriage sealed by proxy, told I am going to outer-darkness because I am making such poor decisions in this life by becoming Catholic, told that I would be sealed to another man and so would my children. It seems to me that the LDS have provisions to make sure in all situations you will end up in the “best place” to point that after a person’s death they can still be saved by those on earth. That indicates that the belief is that once LDS you are on par with God Himself.

How did you have your marriage sealed by proxy if you’re not dead…? And if you were told you’re going to Outer Darkness, these “Mormons” don’t understand our eschatology.

 

[mormonboy]

That is were the the Mormons error on the nature of God, as the Trinity is one in substance and being, not 3 desperate acting in accord.

I think Jeffrey R. Holland, Quorum of the twelves says it best…

"Our first and foremost article of faith in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.”2 We believe these three divine persons constituting a single Godhead are united in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. We believe Them to be filled with the same godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience, forgiveness, and redemption. I think it is accurate to say we believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing Them to be three persons combined in one substance, a Trinitarian notion never set forth in the scriptures "

"We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His baptism at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four.

With these New Testament sources and more8 ringing in our ears, it may be redundant to ask what Jesus meant when He said, “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do.”9 On another occasion He said, “I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”10 Of His antagonists He said, “[They have] . . . seen and hated both me and my Father.”11 And there is, of course, that always deferential subordination to His Father that had Jesus say, “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”12 “My father is greater than I.”13

To whom was Jesus pleading so fervently all those years, including in such anguished cries as “O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me”14 and “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”?15 To acknowledge the scriptural evidence that otherwise perfectly united members of the Godhead are nevertheless separate and distinct beings is not to be guilty of polytheism; it is, rather, part of the great revelation Jesus came to deliver concerning the nature of divine beings. Perhaps the Apostle Paul said it best: “Christ Jesus . . . being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.”16"

 

[CHRISTINE77]

faith

Amen!:clapping:

 

[mormonboy]

faith

I have met many people of different beliefs who have faith… Because one has faith, it doesn’t make their beliefs right.

 

[appaloosablue]

How did you have your marriage sealed by proxy if you’re not dead…? And if you were told you’re going to Outer Darkness, these “Mormons” don’t understand our eschatology.

I was told that my marriage ‘would’ be sealed not that it was done. As the ‘these Mormons’ not understanding our eschatology–does it mean that it has changed since I was LDS? When I was going to the LDS Church in the late 80’s I was taught that there are 3 levels of heaven Celestial, Terestial and Telestial and for those unfortunate enough to not make it into one of the three there was Outer Darkness. As they who explained it since I was LDS and understand the true teachings and chose to turn from them then I would be cast into outer darkness.

Too many esoteric teachings in the LDS church.

 

[mormonboy]

You feel this way because the god you believe in was once a human. He is not God eternal. Maybe God does have additional plans for us once in Heaven but I do not presume to know this.

Yes I have read parts of the BOM, I was LDS for 18 years. I have come from a long line of LDS members. In fact Brigham Young is a direct relative. My grandparents have done 5 missions since retiring. Most of my relatives live in Utah and claim the LDS faith. I do not blindly discuss these matters. Frankly, I could never finish it–I always felt when reading that it was phony.

Since becoming Catholic I have been hounded by missionaries, ex-communicated, had my marriage sealed by proxy, told I am going to outer-darkness because I am making such poor decisions in this life by becoming Catholic, told that I would be sealed to another man and so would my children. It seems to me that the LDS have provisions to make sure in all situations you will end up in the “best place” to point that after a person’s death they can still be saved by those on earth. That indicates that the belief is that once LDS you are on par with God Himself.

Whatever Mormon declares that you are going to outer darkness does not understand our doctrines.

fyi… everyone is saved to some extent.

 

[appaloosablue]

I have met many people of different beliefs who have faith… Because one has faith, it doesn’t make their beliefs right.

Read what you wrote it does apply to you also.

 

[appaloosablue]

Whatever Mormon declares that you are going to outer darkness does not understand our doctrines.

fyi… everyone is saved to some extent.

So you can embrace evil truly and with your whole being and still be saved? HMMMM.
Then what is the point of trying to follow Christ in this world?