Oldest monastery in Iraq destroyed [CWN]

[worldcitizen]

Isis are a ‘perverse’ criminal organisation according to the Quran, which claim to follow Islam but are not recognised as anything but perverse by their Holy Book.

Isis interpret the Day of Resurrection which is an allegorical text in the Quran and interpretation of allegorical texts is forbidden and the Quran says those who do that are not Muslims but ‘perverse’.

Here are two translations of this verse. One condemns them as perverse the other as ‘infected with disbelief’. The Quran clearly washes its hands of evil like this.

[3: 7] It is He who has revealed to you the Book. Some of its verses are precise in meaning –they are the foundation of the Book –and others ambiguous. Those whose hearts are infected with disbelief observe the ambiguous part, so as to create dissension by seeking to explain it. But no one knows its meaning except God. Those who are well-grounded in knowledge.

3:7 there is no GOD but he, the mighty, the wise. It is he who hath sent down unto thee the book, wherein are some verses clear to be understood, they are the foundation of the book; and others are parabolical. But they whose hearts are perverse will follow that which is parabolical therein, out of love of schism,

Caiphas claimed to follow the Jewish religion but sentenced Christ to death. That is a religious person? No matter how much he pretended to be godly when face to face with the Lord he couldn’t recognise Jesus because he was spiritually dead so he was not truly religious. Like with Isis. They wear the garb and flag but are evil as Caiphas…

The mafia claimed to be catholics. I reject them as religious. Will we condemn Catholicism as evil because the mafia went to church?? I respect and love the church but I would be quick to clearly maintain they were not representative of the Catholic Church because they were only Catholic in name like Isis are Muslims in name only.

Outwardly people can claim a lot of things but it’s what’s in their hearts and deeds that betrays them. I’ve seen Isis mandate and no Muslim who reads the Quran with his own mind is fooled by their twisted distortions and sick interpretations used only to further their ambition for wealth and power under the guise of the name Caliphate which were not the true successors of Muhammad anyway.

Yes they could be a real threat if Sunni Islam joined with them but they are Muslim in name only and the Quran condemns them.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Isis are a ‘perverse’ criminal organisation according to the Quran, which claim to follow Islam but are not recognised as anything but perverse by their Holy Book.

Isis interpret the Day of Resurrection which is an allegorical text in the Quran and interpretation of allegorical texts is forbidden and the Quran says those who do that are not Muslims but ‘perverse’.

Here are two translations of this verse. One condemns them as perverse the other as ‘infected with disbelief’. The Quran clearly washes its hands of evil like this.

[3: 7] It is He who has revealed to you the Book. Some of its verses are precise in meaning –they are the foundation of the Book –and others ambiguous. Those whose hearts are infected with disbelief observe the ambiguous part, so as to create dissension by seeking to explain it. But no one knows its meaning except God. Those who are well-grounded in knowledge.

3:7 there is no GOD but he, the mighty, the wise. It is he who hath sent down unto thee the book, wherein are some verses clear to be understood, they are the foundation of the book; and others are parabolical. But they whose hearts are perverse will follow that which is parabolical therein, out of love of schism,

Caiphas claimed to follow the Jewish religion but sentenced Christ to death. That is a religious person? No matter how much he pretended to be godly when face to face with the Lord he couldn’t recognise Jesus because he was spiritually dead so he was not truly religious. Like with Isis. They wear the garb and flag but are evil as Caiphas…

The mafia claimed to be catholics. I reject them as religious. Will we condemn Catholicism as evil because the mafia went to church?? I respect and love the church but I would be quick to clearly maintain they were not representative of the Catholic Church because they were only Catholic in name like Isis are Muslims in name only.

Outwardly people can claim a lot of things but it’s what’s in their hearts and deeds that betrays them. I’ve seen Isis mandate and no Muslim who reads the Quran with his own mind is fooled by their twisted distortions and sick interpretations used only to further their ambition for wealth and power under the guise of the name Caliphate which were not the true successors of Muhammad anyway.

Yes they could be a real threat if Sunni Islam joined with them but they are Muslim in name only and the Quran condemns them.

The leader of ISIS has a PhD in islamic theology from the University of Baghdad. Many who promote Hamas, the muslim Brotherhood and similar radical groups have similar qualifications. Several leading islamic clerics have been banned recently from European countries and Great Britain for giving incendiary sermons, including Muhamad al-Arefe a university professor from Kind Saud University in Saudi Arabia who also happens to be the imam in the academy mosque of the Saudi navy.

 

[worldcitizen]

The leader of Isis didn’t write the Quran and he’s not Muhammad so he’s a nobody.

I follow Christ, the bible and Muhammad and the Quran and all the Holy Books and their prophets and belive in the zone God but I don’t give any credibility to imposters who form criminal organisations and try to call thrm religious.

The mafia were Catholic. So what? It didn’t mean Catholicism sanctioned what they did??

This imposter claims to speak for Islam yet he’s just like the mafia and Islam and the Quran wash their hands of evil doers like him.

 

[JimmyDFG]

The mafia were Catholic. So what? It didn’t mean Catholicism sanctioned what they did??

The mafia in no way shape or form follow the teachings of Christ or the doctrine of the Church. No comparison at all

 

[worldcitizen]

The mafia in no way shape or form follow the teachings of Christ or the doctrine of the Church. No comparison at all

I know that and I’m just trying to draw a parallel, between Isis and Islam.

Just because Isis say they are Islamic doesn’t mean they truly follow the teachings of Islam just like you pointed out there is no comparison between the mafia and Catholicism although they claimed to be Catholics.

Claims don’t mean a thing.

What applies to the mafia about the church equally applies to Isis about Islam.

 

[dolphinlove]

I know that and I’m just trying to draw a parallel, between Isis and Islam.

Just because Isis say they are Islamic doesn’t mean they truly follow the teachings of Islam just like you pointed out there is no comparison between the mafia and Catholicism although they claimed to be Catholics.

Claims don’t mean a thing.

What applies to the mafia about the church equally applies to Isis about Islam.

This is the most silliest comparison Ive ever heard. The catholic church does not in any way shape or form endorse or give ideas to, out of all things, the mafia.
I want you to show me, how the mafia uses the bible to commit what they do. You cant because they dont.

However isis use the quran to justify what they do. They use it to destroy monasteries, ancient religious artifacts etc etc etc.

For example, the oldest monastery destroyed.

Sura 59:5 Whatever palm-trees you cut down or left them standing on their roots, was by the leave of Allah, so that He might humiliate the transgressors.

This is taken out of the quran to justify their reason to destroy things.

 

[Servant19]

This is the most silliest comparison Ive ever heard. The catholic church does not in any way shape or form endorse or give ideas to, out of all things, the mafia.
I want you to show me, how the mafia uses the bible to commit what they do. You cant because they dont.

However isis use the quran to justify what they do. They use it to destroy monasteries, ancient religious artifacts etc etc etc.

For example, the oldest monastery destroyed.

Sura 59:5 Whatever palm-trees you cut down or left them standing on their roots, was by the leave of Allah, so that He might humiliate the transgressors.

This is taken out of the quran to justify their reason to destroy things.

Personally I wouldn’t have chosen the mafia, but maybe worldcitizen has heard the Bible being quoted in Sicily.

However, to be naive enough to think that Biblical verses haven’t been quoted for heinous acts is typical of those who are only wanting to judge others unfairly.

angelfire.com/realm/misssandy/rant/select.html

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[dolphinlove]

Personally I wouldn’t have chosen the mafia, but maybe worldcitizen has heard the Bible being quoted in Sicily.

However, to be naive enough to think that Biblical verses haven’t been quoted for heinous acts is typical of those who are only wanting to judge others unfairly.

angelfire.com/realm/misssandy/rant/select.html

.

Where did I say that biblical verses havent been used for heinous acts? I was talking about his comparison to the mafia. Not the fact they never have been used.

 

[Servant19]

Where did I say that biblical verses havent been used for heinous acts? I was talking about his comparison to the mafia. Not the fact they never have been used.

So did you ask worldcitizen if he’s heard bible verses being quoted by the mafia?

I also think this sentence is worthy of questioning you:
"However isis use the quran to justify what they do. They use it to destroy monasteries, ancient religious artifacts etc etc etc. "

.

 

[dolphinlove]

So did you ask worldcitizen if he’s heard bible verses being quoted by the mafia?

I also think this sentence is worthy of questioning you:
"However isis use the quran to justify what they do. They use it to destroy monasteries, ancient religious artifacts etc etc etc. "

.

Exactly that, I ask to prove the mafia using the bible to justify what they did. Where did I say the bible has never been used in history to justify evil acts? These are 2 different questions

However, isis DO use the quran to justify what they do.

 

[Servant19]

Exactly that, I ask to prove the mafia using the bible to justify what they did. Where did I say the bible has never been used in history to justify evil acts? These are 2 different questions

However, isis DO use the quran to justify what they do.

Still not convinced dolphin, sorry

The use of the word “however” is utilized to mean that something is implied in one case, but not in another case.
For example, the bible is not used to justify terrorist acts, however the quran is used to justify terrorist acts.
The summer orange is very sour, however, the winter orange is not very sour.

I would suggest you consider equating ISIS to the KKK for future dialogue.

.

 

[worldcitizen]

This is the most silliest comparison Ive ever heard. The catholic church does not in any way shape or form endorse or give ideas to, out of all things, the mafia.
I want you to show me, how the mafia uses the bible to commit what they do. You cant because they dont.

However isis use the quran to justify what they do. They use it to destroy monasteries, ancient religious artifacts etc etc etc.

For example, the oldest monastery destroyed.

Sura 59:5 Whatever palm-trees you cut down or left them standing on their roots, was by the leave of Allah, so that He might humiliate the transgressors.

This is taken out of the quran to justify their reason to destroy things.

The Quran doesn’t support evil just like the Bible doesn’t. The Quran is the Word of God and God doesn’t commit evil man does. God punishes transgressors who kill, murder and rape and that’s what the Quraysh did back then.

Isis may twist the Quran to suit them but that doesn’t mean it supports them. As I said the Quran is the Word of God so it is just not evil. Many people have tried to use Holy Books to justify atrocities but the majority of religious people are good.

It’s interesting you use a tiny minority rather than the 1.6 billion peaceful Muslims who are peaceful and virtuous because of the Quran. 1.6 billion peaceful Muslims prove the Quran is a peaceful Book. The minority in no wise represent Islam.

 

[Reuben_J]

The Quran doesn’t support evil just like the Bible doesn’t. The Quran is the Word of God and God doesn’t commit evil man does. God punishes transgressors who kill, murder and rape and that’s what the Quraysh did back then.

Isis may twist the Quran to suit them but that doesn’t mean it supports them. As I said the Quran is the Word of God so it is just not evil. Many people have tried to use Holy Books to justify atrocities but the majority of religious people are good.

It’s interesting you use a tiny minority rather than the 1.6 billion peaceful Muslims who are peaceful and virtuous because of the Quran. 1.6 billion peaceful Muslims prove the Quran is a peaceful Book. The minority in no wise represent Islam.

My dear friend, this is your weakness in your argument. You started by saying that the Quran being the word of God and therefore cannot advocate evil. Then you defined evil as transgression committed by men. By doing so you have fallen into a pit of your own trap.

You forget that what Muslims do need not necessarily be transgression. The caveat here is if it is for the cause of Allah, then it will not be transgression no matter how hard it is to stomach.

Islam allows for violence, like killing, destruction, etc., means to achieve the end. It allows to commit the extreme, just like the Old Testament of the Bible, where God ordered the entire tribe to be destroyed for a reason. The only difference for us was that such word of God in OT was for specific event in time while the command in the Quran is an open-ended one.

I know you want to defend Islam for whatever reason, and you may be sincere about your interpretation, but being a Bahai you have no credibility speaking for Islam. I mean, Muslims will disagree with you, and that’s matters.

You stated without any evidence that what ISIS believe and do is the belief of very small percentage of Muslims. That statement weaken your argument as it is merely your personal assertion without knowing the real feeling of Muslims themselves on this issue.

What ISIS do cannot be argued with emotion and assumption but rather with theology.

 

[Servant19]

My dear friend, this is your weakness in your argument. You started by saying that the Quran being the word of God and therefore cannot advocate evil. Then you defined evil as transgression committed by men. By doing so you have fallen into a pit of your own trap.

You forget that what Muslims do need not necessarily be transgression. The caveat here is if it is for the cause of Allah, then it will not be transgression no matter how hard it is to stomach.

Islam allows for violence, like killing, destruction, etc., means to achieve the end. It allows to commit the extreme, just like the Old Testament of the Bible, where God ordered the entire tribe to be destroyed for a reason. The only difference for us was that such word of God in OT was for specific event in time while the command in the Quran is an open-ended one.

I know you want to defend Islam for whatever reason, and you may be sincere about your interpretation, but being a Bahai you have no credibility speaking for Islam. I mean, Muslims will disagree with you, and that’s matters.

You stated without any evidence that what ISIS believe and do is the belief of very small percentage of Muslims. That statement weaken your argument as it is merely your personal assertion without knowing the real feeling of Muslims themselves on this issue.

What ISIS do cannot be argued with emotion and assumption but rather with theology.

Can you show us please Reuben, which Quranic verse is intended to be taken out of context for the purposes of violence and destruction, with the intention that it should be applicable today?

.

 

[worldcitizen]

My dear friend, this is your weakness in your argument. You started by saying that the Quran being the word of God and therefore cannot advocate evil. Then you defined evil as transgression committed by men. By doing so you have fallen into a pit of your own trap.

You forget that what Muslims do need not necessarily be transgression. The caveat here is if it is for the cause of Allah, then it will not be transgression no matter how hard it is to stomach.

Islam allows for violence, like killing, destruction, etc., means to achieve the end. It allows to commit the extreme, just like the Old Testament of the Bible, where God ordered the entire tribe to be destroyed for a reason. The only difference for us was that such word of God in OT was for specific event in time while the command in the Quran is an open-ended one.

I know you want to defend Islam for whatever reason, and you may be sincere about your interpretation, but being a Bahai you have no credibility speaking for Islam. I mean, Muslims will disagree with you, and that’s matters.

You stated without any evidence that what ISIS believe and do is the belief of very small percentage of Muslims. That statement weaken your argument as it is merely your personal assertion without knowing the real feeling of Muslims themselves on this issue.

What ISIS do cannot be argued with emotion and assumption but rather with theology.

Muslims who read the Quran all know aggressive warfare is forbidden, absolutely forbidden.

I don’t speak for Muslims. The Quran speaks clearly on these matters. There is no ambiguity whatsoever and most of the 1.6 billion Muslims are peaceful because of the Quran. If they weren’t we’d all be speaking Arabic a long time ago.

Isis are copying the Umayyads and Abbasids who wanted to conquer for wealth and power and found using religion was a way to convince people to fight for them using Hadiths mainly.

There is no weakness in the argument that men not God commit evil and transgression. Killing iunless in self defense is forbidden in the Quran. The Quran states this very clearly. Man is always the weak link when it comes to religion not God or His Holy Books.

The Quran upholds only defensive warfare The perimeters for self defensive war were given in Medina sura 2:190. That sura delineates the terms for every battle in the Quran and it says 'not to attack unless attacked first, God loves NOT such injustice"

Also in medina was revealed the verse ‘to kill one person is to kill all mankind’

5:32 whoever killed a human being, except as punishment for murder or other villainy in the land, it shall be as if he has killed all mankind;

There isn’t a verse in the Quran that supports aggressive warfare. In light of 2:190 everytime you find a verse that says to kill it’s referring to those who are actively attacking Muslims.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Still not convinced dolphin, sorry

The use of the word “however” is utilized to mean that something is implied in one case, but not in another case.
For example, the bible is not used to justify terrorist acts, however the quran is used to justify terrorist acts.
The summer orange is very sour, however, the winter orange is not very sour.

I would suggest you consider equating ISIS to the KKK for future dialogue.

.

Comparing the crimes of the KKK to the sheer scale of atrocities of Radical Islam is beyond comparison.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Still not convinced dolphin, sorry

The use of the word “however” is utilized to mean that something is implied in one case, but not in another case.
For example, the bible is not used to justify terrorist acts, however the quran is used to justify terrorist acts.
The summer orange is very sour, however, the winter orange is not very sour.

I would suggest you consider equating ISIS to the KKK for future dialogue.

.

Please quote for us the relevant Christian doctrine that would condone and promote the murderous behaviour of the KKK of the Mafia. Is it in the teachings of Christ what the KKK and the Mafia have done? ISIS know their religious teachings exceedingly well.
The moderates and the radicals can quote scripture to defend their positions, but the islamic jihadists seem to be able to quote it much more extensively and convincingly.

 

[Servant19]

Please quote for us the relevant Christian doctrine that would condone and promote the murderous behaviour of the KKK of the Mafia. Is it in the teachings of Christ what the KKK and the Mafia have done? ISIS know their religious teachings exceedingly well.
The moderates and the radicals can quote scripture to defend their positions, but the islamic jihadists seem to be able to quote it much more extensively and convincingly.

Please quote for us where ISIS know Islamic teachings really well.

.

 

[TonyBS]

Please quote for us where ISIS know Islamic teachings really well.

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If they destroy monastery’s, then they have forgotten Islam teachings.

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

“Our Christian history in Mosul is being barbarically leveled," said Father Paul Thabit Habib. “We see it as an attempt to expel us from Iraq, eliminating and finishing our existence in this land.”

That is really very sad. Feel for those who to abide by Jesus and love Him with all their hearts. Fr. Habib knows what he’s talking about and we should pray for the community there and that they never forget that God cares for them even if they suffer like this.

MJ