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JimmyDFG
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No worries at all worldcitizen!!
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JimmyDFG
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Thank you Servant
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JimmyDFG
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Volume 4, Book 52, Number 186:The Nonsense is rejection of sound argument for the purpose of making bad of one religion, it has been Gods way from the Beginning
It is the Same as with a Christian and a Jew, there is and can not be any forced conversion. God has left us to Our Free Will.
Among the many decisive pieces of evidence in this regard are the following. God says:
“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)
God says:
“If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” (Quran 10:99)
God says:
**“So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted my whole self to God, and so have those who follow me.’ And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message. And in God’s sight are all of His servants.” **(Quran 3:20)
God says:
“The Messenger’s duty is but to proclaim the Message.” (Quran 5:99)
The Prophet, said in his letter to the Roman governor Heraclius:
**“I invite you to accept Islam. If you accept Islam, you will find safety. If you accept Islam, God will give you a double reward. However, if you turn away, upon you will be the sin of your subjects.” **(Saheeh Al-Bukhari, Saheeh Muslim)
So much evidence that the Word in the Koran does not Teach the practice of Violence against others to convert, but it does allow oneself to defend against receiving it.
To me the destruction of Monastery’s and other disasters are in direct consequence of our blindness against the religions of God, God has allowed certain events to transpire to wake us from our slumber of superiority. It is Gods world we play our little religious games in and who is the best of players!
Regards Tony
Narrated 'Aisha:
Once the Jews came to the Prophet and said, “Death be upon you.” So I cursed them. The Prophet said, “What is the matter?” I said, “Have you not heard what they said?” The Prophet said, “Have you not heard what I replied (to them)? (I said), (‘The same is upon you.’)”
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 187:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abbas:
Allah’s Apostle wrote a letter to Caesar saying, “If you reject Islam, you will be responsible for the sins of the peasants (i.e. your people).”
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 188:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Tufail bin 'Amr Ad-Dausi and his companions came to the Prophet and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! The people of the tribe of Daus disobeyed and refused to follow you; so invoke Allah against them.” The people said, “The tribe of Daus is ruined.” The Prophet said, “O Allah! Give guidance to the people of Daus, and let them embrace Islam.”
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JimmyDFG
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Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 8 :: Hadith 387
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’ And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.” Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, “O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?” He replied, “Whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’, faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have.”
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Servant19
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This Hadith goes against the authentic teachings of the Wuran and so should be rejected Jimmy.
Why would you do the opposite?
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JimmyDFG
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Then why didn’t you tell this to TonyBS ?This Hadith goes against the authentic teachings of the Wuran and so should be rejected Jimmy.
Why would you do the opposite?
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Servant19
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The Hadith he quoted agrees with the Quran…and the Bible really.
All are in sin save those who do not reject the Manifestation of God.
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JimmyDFG
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So one only chooses on hadiths which he or she thinks is “good”?
They’re both hadiths nonetheless. But
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Servant19
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Hi Jimmy,
Its not the Hadiths that we reckon are ok for our own means and arguments, it has to concur and align with the Quran to be accurate:
6:114 “Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this book sufficiently detailed?”
and also the best Hadith is the Quran, no need or anything else:
39:23 Allahu nazzala ahsana alhadeethikitaban. Allah has sent you the best Hadith: a consistent Book wherein is reiteration.
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TonyBS
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Is this Hadith #387/quoted above?This Hadith goes against the authentic teachings of the Quran and so should be rejected Jimmy.
Why would you do the opposite?
I have read that a few Times over and over. When I break it down to what is being said in each part, does it not say if they continue in their Old Ways, it is as they are sacred and we will not interfere with them except legally as per the Koran and leave them to the judgement of Allah?
Read it a few times and look at “And if THEY say so” …be like us?
What do you think?
Regard Tony
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JimmyDFG
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Is this a belief of the Baha’i or muslims as well? Because what I’ve read supports this hadith
“Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī, is one of the Kutub al-Sittah (six major hadith collections) of Sunni Islam. These prophetic traditions, or hadith, were collected by the Persian Muslim scholar Muhammad al-Bukhari, after being transmitted orally for generations. Sunni Muslims view this as one of the three most trusted collections of hadith along with Sahih Muslim and Muwatta Imam Malik. It is also used as an authentic hadith collection by Zaidi Shia Muslims. In some circles, it is considered the most authentic book after the Quran.Arabic word sahih translates as authentic or correct.”
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Servant19
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Yes Jimmy, it is Muslim belief by the majority (there are always some minorities who need to be guided), but the answer is partly in the quotation you provided (I’ve highlighted it)
Here’s other sources:
quranic.org/82/
quran-islam.org/articles/hadith_not_from_prophet_%28P1177%29.html
Hope that helps
Islam is a beautiful, and inspiring religion Jimmy, but it must be read with Muhammad and God in mind (what would He want me to read? What would He want me to understand? God is love, God is just, how can I understand justice and love in what I am reading?)
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JimmyDFG
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And how do you know this?
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Servant19
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By talking to Muslims Jimmy
The websites I posted simply confirm what they have told me. The Quran is number one, everything else either adds richness to it or should be dismissed.
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JimmyDFG
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"The mainstream Sunni sect has generally accepts Bukhari’s collection as sacred. Ibn al-Salah said: “The first to author a Sahih was Bukhari, Abu ‘Abdillah Muhammad ibn Ismaa’eel al-Ju’fee, followed by Aboo al-Husain Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj al-Naisaabooree al-Qushairee, who was his student, sharing many of the same teachers. These two books are the most authentic books after the Quran. As for the statement of Al-Shafi‘i, who said “I do not know of a book containing knowledge more correct than Malik’s book,” – others mentioned it with a different wording – he said this before the books of Bukhari and Muslim. The book of Bukhari is the more authentic of the two and more useful.”By talking to Muslims Jimmy
The websites I posted simply confirm what they have told me. The Quran is number one, everything else either adds richness to it or should be dismissed.
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worldcitizen
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Thanks Jimmy (mummy)!!No worries at all worldcitizen!!
:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes::grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
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Servant19
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It is clear that there is no authority in Islam.
You will get some Sunnis (who I’ve talked to, and website links I’ve given above) that say the opposite to the Sunnis that you are quoting. It’s not too dissimilar to other religions around the world
Seriously, a new authoritative Revelation is needed to clear this mess up
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worldcitizen
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Yes servant. What a mess we have!! Everyone says they are right and everybody else is wrong and going to hell.By talking to Muslims Jimmy
The websites I posted simply confirm what they have told me. The Quran is number one, everything else either adds richness to it or should be dismissed.
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When I tried to say to people ‘what if they’re’ all right the verdict and decree came forth issued that ‘hey, this guy is clinically insane’.
So folks meet a clinically insane person!!
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JimmyDFG
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So muslims are left to interrupt islam on their own accord?
Islam does not have a formal hierarchy or clergy. Leaders are informal, and gain influence through study to become a scholar of Islamic law, called sharia. According to the Islamic Center of Columbia, South Carolina, anyone with the intelligence and will can become an Islamic scholar. During Midday Mosque services on Fridays, the congregation will choose a well educated person to lead the service, known as an imam (one who leads)
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JimmyDFG
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No new authoritative revelation needed. One only needs to follow Jesus and the New Testament …along with his Commandments.Seriously, a new authoritative Revelation is needed to clear this mess up
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John 14:6
Jesus said: I am the Way; I am Truth and Life. No one can come to the Father except through me
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