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Servant19
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I forgot to answer the first question, my apologies
Here, please read the part entitled “Race Mixing”
wckkkk.org/nature.html
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Here, please read the part entitled “Race Mixing”
wckkkk.org/nature.html
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Servant19
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Indeed it is sad dear Martin“Our Christian history in Mosul is being barbarically leveled," said Father Paul Thabit Habib. “We see it as an attempt to expel us from Iraq, eliminating and finishing our existence in this land.”
That is really very sad. Feel for those who to abide by Jesus and love Him with all their hearts. Fr. Habib knows what he’s talking about and we should pray for the community there and that they never forget that God cares for them even if they suffer like this.
MJ
All persecuted peoples in that region are in my prayers.
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MartinJordan
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Servant19
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Not for not want of trying Jimmy.
Put the KKK in South Africa and you have something akin to ISIS in magnitude…
people.ucalgary.ca/~nurelweb/papers/irving/apart.html
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TonyBS
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JimmyDFG
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Servant, The title of the tread is “Oldest monastery in Iraq destroyed” but yet you try to bring Christianity into some how. Is there something about Christianity that you might find bothersome?
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JimmyDFG
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So you’re giving a… what if?
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worldcitizen
Guest
Jimmy, the whole exercise here is to try and prove Islam is not from God yet the Quran only permits self defense.
First let’s widen he net a bit. All religions are guilty of massacres, atrocities and war crimes. We don’t need to go through history to show that but some examples will help.
The Inquisition. Beheading, burning at the stake? No different to Isis. The Crusades and the massacre of men, women and children and infants at Jerusalem in 1099 by a faith which believes in ‘thou shat not kill’.
Let’s now go to modern times and Christian counties. Where did the holocaust come from that killed 6 million Jews - a Christian country. Not a Muslim country who are supposed to hate Jews.
Then we have Horoshima and Nagasaki the worst and most vile crime against humanity committed again by a CHRISTIAN country. Again not committed by Muslims.
The Killing fields - 2 million dead again nothing to do with Islam
The Tutsi war - one million dead - not Islamic
The Vietnam and Korean wars again not Muslim
My point is, even though Muslims are permitted to fight in self defense their atrocities are not nearly as matched as those that have been committed by Christian countries.
So if your point, which it is, is to say Islam is a violent religion thrn so is Christianity and it’s Christian God fearing leaders who go to church every week drop bombs on innocent Muslim hospitals and families eating dinner. But God bless them because they are western and their religion is clean.
Isis are as Islamic as Hitler was Catholic. He was born a catholic. Those that were responsible for nuking Japan were Christians and 1099 massacre in Jerusalem and we could very well point to this verse of Christ…
‘I come not to bring peace, I come with a sword’ but is that at all fair and just??
And all those other verses in the Bible about destroying and killing women, men and infants and ripping open the bellies of pregnant women. They’re there.
So is the Bible evil because it tells someone to rip open the bellies of pregnant women and kill infants??? Is the Bible evil because of 1099 in Jerusalem??
Hosea 13:16 Samaria will bear her guilt because she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.
That’s aggressive war whereas the Quran 2:190 only permits defensive war.
It all comes down to man disobeying God. It’s not the Prophets or Holy Books that are evil but men with evil intent. Isis are a group of criminals using religion for wealth and power. They don’t represent God at all for God is good.
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Servant19
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Not at all Jimmy.
I’m simply answering the questions posed to me.
I can’t be rude and not present the perspective I’m being questioned about
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JimmyDFG
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I’ll comment on this when I have more time… its late here
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Servant19
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I think it’s worth considering a new thread guys
I would suggest a follow on to the “Study the Quran” thread.
Eric had been clear, and we are deviating somewhat.
How about we all agree that the destruction of the monastery is tragic and sad and indeed does disappoint God, and we can resume comparisons of how Holy Books have impacted the human race over the centuries…
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worldcitizen
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Very good.I think it’s worth considering a new thread guys
I would suggest a follow on to the “Study the Quran” thread.
Eric had been clear, and we are deviating somewhat.
How about we all agree that the destruction of the monastery is tragic and sad and indeed does disappoint God, and we can resume comparisons of how Holy Books have impacted the human race over the centuries…
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JimmyDFG
Guest
Inquisition - Documents from Vatican archives relating to the trials of Jews, Muslims, Cathars, witches, scientists and other non-Catholics in Europe between the 13th and the 19th centuries, the number actually killed or tortured into confession during the Inquisition was far fewer than previously thought.
Estimates of the number killed by the Spanish Inquisition, which Sixtus IV authorised in a papal bull in 1478, have ranged from 30,000 to 300,000. Some historians are convinced that millions died.
But according to Professor Agostino Borromeo, a historian of Catholicism at the Sapienza University in Rome and curator released a 783-page volume saying only 1% of the 125,000 people tried by church tribunals as suspected heretics in Spain were executed.
Other experts at the Vatican said that that many of the thousands of executions conventionally attributed to the church were in fact carried out by non-church tribunals.
As for the Inquisition The church does not deny its responsibility for atrocities committed by Catholics in its name. In 2000 the Pope publicly apologised for the unnecessary “violence” used.
Is there any equivalent responsibility from the islamic faith on the islamic conquest?
As for the Holocaust and Hitler The Roman Catholic Church suffered persecution in Nazi Germany. As a totalitarian ideology, the Nazis claimed jurisdiction over all collective and social activity, interfering with Catholic schooling, youth groups, workers’ clubs and cultural societies.Nazi ideology could not accept an autonomous establishment, whose legitimacy did not spring from the government. It desired the subordination of the church to the state.The Nazi leadership hoped to dechristianise Germany in the long term Aggressive anti-Church radicals like Propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels, Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler and Hitler’s “deputy” Martin Bormann saw the kirchenkampf campaign against the Churches as a priority concern, and anti-church and anticlerical sentiments were strong among grassroots party activists.Hitler himself also held radical instincts on the Church Question, but was prepared to restrain his anticlericalism out of political considerations, seeing dangers in strengthening the church through persecution.
But we see some islamic countries denying the holocaust. Also what side was Ottoman Empire on during World War 1?
The Killing Fields - not Christian
The Vietnam and Korean - not due from Christian beliefs …nor were the mayor factors in the wars Christians
You mentioned the verses from the Bible but I’m guessing you don’t understand why Jesus spoke in parables and the difference between the Old and New Testaments
Estimates of the number killed by the Spanish Inquisition, which Sixtus IV authorised in a papal bull in 1478, have ranged from 30,000 to 300,000. Some historians are convinced that millions died.
But according to Professor Agostino Borromeo, a historian of Catholicism at the Sapienza University in Rome and curator released a 783-page volume saying only 1% of the 125,000 people tried by church tribunals as suspected heretics in Spain were executed.
Other experts at the Vatican said that that many of the thousands of executions conventionally attributed to the church were in fact carried out by non-church tribunals.
theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/16/artsandhumanities.internationaleducationnews
You mentioned the Crusades but you failed to say anything about the muslim conquest or the islamic conquest, why?. As a result of the muslim conquest we had the Crusades from 400 years of islamic oppression. One can not mention the Crusades without bring up the islamic conquest.As for the Inquisition The church does not deny its responsibility for atrocities committed by Catholics in its name. In 2000 the Pope publicly apologised for the unnecessary “violence” used.
Is there any equivalent responsibility from the islamic faith on the islamic conquest?
As for the Holocaust and Hitler The Roman Catholic Church suffered persecution in Nazi Germany. As a totalitarian ideology, the Nazis claimed jurisdiction over all collective and social activity, interfering with Catholic schooling, youth groups, workers’ clubs and cultural societies.Nazi ideology could not accept an autonomous establishment, whose legitimacy did not spring from the government. It desired the subordination of the church to the state.The Nazi leadership hoped to dechristianise Germany in the long term Aggressive anti-Church radicals like Propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels, Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler and Hitler’s “deputy” Martin Bormann saw the kirchenkampf campaign against the Churches as a priority concern, and anti-church and anticlerical sentiments were strong among grassroots party activists.Hitler himself also held radical instincts on the Church Question, but was prepared to restrain his anticlericalism out of political considerations, seeing dangers in strengthening the church through persecution.
But we see some islamic countries denying the holocaust. Also what side was Ottoman Empire on during World War 1?
The Killing Fields - not Christian
The Vietnam and Korean - not due from Christian beliefs …nor were the mayor factors in the wars Christians
You mentioned the verses from the Bible but I’m guessing you don’t understand why Jesus spoke in parables and the difference between the Old and New Testaments
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JimmyDFG
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Nazi persecution of the Catholic Church
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Germany
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worldcitizen
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Yes Jimmy. You made the case for violence iby Muslims and I was just trying to make the point that throughout history blood is on all hands not only Muslims. No one race or religion can say they didn’t commit atrocities down the ages.
All are blameworthy. No atrocities whoever committed them are acceptable.
But the division into camps itself is wrong. The ‘us and them’ mentality.
Humans killed humans over the past thousands of years and it’s shameful that humans even fought humans as nature doesn’t fight itself. That means we are lower than the animals as a human race.
Why can’t or won’t humanity come together? Why this ‘us and them’ mentality? It serves no purpose this attitude amongst humanity that my country or my beliefs or my race are superior to others.
It’s useless and destructive to think like this because we all come from the same God.
We need to let the security forces take care of ISIS but all of us humans should come together in love and unity as one and celebrate what we have in common as well as our diversity.
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JimmyDFG
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You made the case of bring up past events…so going back hundreds of years ago. But in this day and age we hear about islamic terrorist organizations such as ISIS
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JimmyDFG
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8:39
And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah .
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Reuben_J
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IS (Islamic State) is fighting for an Islamic cause and interest. These are Muslims who do not care to lose everything, even their lives, for their belief. Definitely they have less of political consideration and wealth to worry about unlike formal government.
Dismissing them as unbelievers is to do so at you own peril. They believe, alright. They have studied their Quran, Islamic history and practices. Their leaders are not ignorant or uneducated. In fact they are highly professional people. This is one of the reasons why they appear to have credibility with so many Muslims all over the world.
Closet Muslims may like to paint a milder picture of peaceful Islam but until and when they can rebut IS ideology, they are just that - whitewashing Islam much for public relation exercise. I have scoured the internet and tried to engage Muslims - there is no consensus among them that IS is wrong on Islam.
Many of them agree that Muslims have been exploited by foreign colonizers and ruled by corrupted Muslim rulers, that IS have to do the extreme to break this cycle to bring about a pure form of Islam to its former glory (rephrased).
Dismissing them as unbelievers is to do so at you own peril. They believe, alright. They have studied their Quran, Islamic history and practices. Their leaders are not ignorant or uneducated. In fact they are highly professional people. This is one of the reasons why they appear to have credibility with so many Muslims all over the world.
Closet Muslims may like to paint a milder picture of peaceful Islam but until and when they can rebut IS ideology, they are just that - whitewashing Islam much for public relation exercise. I have scoured the internet and tried to engage Muslims - there is no consensus among them that IS is wrong on Islam.
Many of them agree that Muslims have been exploited by foreign colonizers and ruled by corrupted Muslim rulers, that IS have to do the extreme to break this cycle to bring about a pure form of Islam to its former glory (rephrased).
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JimmyDFG
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ISIS believes that their beliefs are honest. What is the basic attraction that draws young men and women to Islamic movements? that the main motivation is the perception that the quran is true. Most jihadists wage jihad because they believe that is what allah wants them to do.
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worldcitizen
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That verse is referring to those who are slaughtering Muslims.
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