Hello One Sheep.
On your first point - of me having the “proof” you require before you’ll believe in persons be possessed by the devil - have you never read your Bible? Jesus cast out demons. They still exist. I could say prove they don’t, but I won’t.
Thanks for responding! It is obvious that much more was attributed to demons in Jesus’ day. That was their way of explaining phenomena. The gospels were not written in modern language with modern thinking, they made sense, in these instances, to the people of the day.
If you read through my posts, you’d know I’ve already cited a documented case of possession that occurred in the middle of the last century. Modern enough for you? His case was studied by several doctors and they concurred that it was in fact, demonic in origin. Then there is a recent case of a young boy in a hospital seating in Indiana being found in need of exorcism by the hospital staff. Modern enough for you?
All medicine should take place in the context of the individual. If a person perceives that he is possessed, then exorcism has its place. If that is the perception, the environment that he grew up in, that is, that the devil has power and can be in control of people, then exorcism addresses the perception.
All power comes from God, and God is beneficent.
No, it isn’t the Church’s position that things demonic in nature have been wholesalely “exorcised” by the Modernists denial that such things exist and are archaic or Medieval or unscientific. Their position is acknowledged as heresy and to hold such views or praise such views is heretical.
Accusations of heresy are not to be taken lightly. Canon law is very specific about what is heretical, and as lay people we are not to use the word, nor insinuate. Please, drop the word, it is disrespectful. I will not respond again if you use it against me. Please, Glenda, be civil.
The Church hasn’t got to “prove” anything to a heretic. If you think that it is a good thing that Modernism came along then by gosh by golly you may want to take a look at whatever else it is you don’t believe that the Church holds true and tell it to your confessor before you next receive Communion.
I only stated that this particular aspect of Modernism is good. Not all of Modernism is to be praised. It sounds to me that you are feeling a bit resentful toward my views. Glenda, please, forgive, do not condemn. Try to understand that all Catholics do not see things exactly the same way you do. Is that diet affecting your mood?
I cannot compare a resentment someone might have with actual possession. A resentment is one thing but a foreign entity bent on the destruction body and soul of an individual and invading their poor bodies in an attempt to do just that, well, there is no comparison. Read that Catechism again and look up possession and the devil and the real answers the Church provides for those afflicted.
Please feel free to quote the catechism, and we can address it.
One other thing One Sheep - what do you suppose Jesus did when He cast devils out of folks and healed those who were afflicted by devils? Was it a game of charades hiding the “real” diagnosis of epilepsy? Were those people simply mentally ill or filled with other things a you suggest and Jesus was “treating” them the best way He knew how? Was Jesus unaware of the “real” problems afflicting these people? If it wasn’t demons what exactly would you say it was? BTW it all happened long before 1633.
What Jesus did was explained and recorded in the vernacular and scientific understanding of 2 millennia ago. We have learned a bit since then, have we not? Did Jesus cure and heal people? Yes!
Please explain from your modern point of view. Enlighten me please. You are free to believe anything you want or disbelieve anything you want to. However you sign in here as a Catholic and that puts some limits on that. You are not free to receive Communion if you don’t believe what your supposed to as a Catholic.
Glenda, please try to be courteous. How can we discuss anything if you do not try to forgive what you resent? I tell you what, I am in communion with you. Are you, with me? I understand and accept your point of view. Do you really want to be enlightened?
We can start here:
“Through the Spirit we see that whatsoever exists in any way is good”
“It was made manifest to me that you have made all things good. All things, taken one by one, are good and all things taken together, are very good. For our God has made all things very good.”
I will grant you that St. Augustine would find ways to contest these very statements when he was reminded of behaviors of his own that he resented, but the above quotes reflect God as I know in my prayer life, the God I know through relationship.
In the mean time, check out this website about modern exorcisms. It would have been much better for these people to have been brought up on the above words from St. Augustine.
whatstheharm.net/exorcisms.html
There is a place for exorcism. The place is for those who are full of fear and misperception (as those on the website), where counseling can only occur after the person perceives that such possession has subsided. What I am saying is that every person so “exorcised” should receive counseling afterwards, the individual has some kind of cognitive or medical issue, and the healing should continue. And when that healing comes from a qualified counseling or medical professional, it just as miraculous as a priest doing an exorcism, just as much a sign from a loving, beneficent God.
God be with you, Glenda, please forgive me.
