On Demonic Posession

[glendab]

P.S. OneSheep - I did go to the website you linked to and it seems at first glance place one that would do away with all the Ministries to those afflicted with demons. Do you agree with them or did you share the site here for shock value alone?

 

[Starrsmother]

I am not aware of anyone who appears possessed, but is actually suffering mental illness. Neither do I know of anyone from the new testament who was actually mentally ill but appeared possessed. Who are you referring to?

As far as looking for trouble, we don’t have to look for it. Satan prowls about the earth like a lion seeking the ruin of souls. The war is on and has been on since the beginning.

As someone in the medical profession, I can absolutely GUARANTEE you that many schizophrenics who are untreated (not on their meds) will make you think they are possessed. As to looking for trouble, anyone who toys with the occult, tarot cards, ouija boards, table-talking etc are asking for trouble–plain and simple—and they sometimes get it and in a BIG way. I would agree with you that there is plenty of evil in the world without deliberately seeking it out.

 

[MtnDwellar]

As someone in the medical profession, I can absolutely GUARANTEE you that many schizophrenics who are untreated (not on their meds) will make you think they are possessed. As to looking for trouble, anyone who toys with the occult, tarot cards, ouija boards, table-talking etc are asking for trouble–plain and simple—and they sometimes get it and in a BIG way. I would agree with you that there is plenty of evil in the world without deliberately seeking it out.

Thank you for the GUARANTEE.

Have you seen anyone suspected of schizophrenia who was diagnosed as possessed? How many diagnosis of possession does the medical profession give? Since they do not get paid for exorcisms, I suspect zero, or a very low number, How many schizophrenics are cured? I know almost all are medicated for life.

My suspicion is that our doctors are reluctant to consider possession as a possible diagnosis and many poor people suffer needlessly.

 

[OneSheep]

Hello Onesheep.

I took out some of your comments. First off I don’t resent you at all. But if I was a person from the 1st Century an you explained away things demonic via a condescending attitude that all but claim those brothers and sisters of mine, the early Christians were a bunch of ignoramuses and inferior in their education and understanding and so God dealt with them at their level. well, need I say more? But that is how your words come across. They were stupid and blamed the devil for everything and Jesus dumbed down His superior knowledge to help the poor stupid ignorant folks of the past who haven’t the wisdom of the ages that we have in the Nuclear Age! Right? Is that it?

Yes, minus all the condescension. My catechesis informed me that Jesus spoke in the vernacular and the science of the day, he was not there to educate them about mental disorders or what have you. It is ridiculous to blame people 2000 years ago for not knowing what we know about the mind, psychology, and pathologies. Jesus’ words and actions are not diminished by modern science, period.

As for the insinuation the Canon laws forbids laypersons from using the word heretic or heretical or heresy, please find it and quote it here so we can all be corrected.

I got that straight from the mouth of a canon lawyer. “Heresy” is very strictly and specifically defined, it is not a word for lay people to throw around. I do not have the references at hand, you will just have to take my word for it.

Modernism is a heresy and there used to be an Oath against it that all who were to serve the Church had to sign. A Pope took the errors of the Modernists very, very seriously. I kinda agree with him. To me, there isn’t any part of the Modern errors that are acceptable or as you say, to be praised.

Any revelation that shows people the presence of God is to be praised. Any revelation that shows the goodness of God, in all that is, comes from the Spirit. Again, I am sticking with St. Augustine’s words I quoted on this. If there is another power other than God, we are talking about dualism. That is the Star wars theology, Manichaeism.

I am not promoting Modernism, I am saying that science has revealed much about the human mind, and those revelations are extremely helpful in curing individuals.

Yes, it is true that not all Catholics see things the same way as I do. Bit to tell me to stop seeing things that way isn’t polite of you. I appreciate your contrary opinions but I do not resent you. I simply have a different way of seeing things. If you can respect my opinions they shouldn’t offend. Polite conversations can be had even if person agree to disagree, don’t you think?

If you check my post, not once did I tell you to stop seeing things the way you do. Your seeing is normal and human. And yes, we can have polite conversations. And I apologize for the gaff about your diet, I meant to throw a smiley face after it. I also noticed that my post had a frown on it, which I must have hit accidentally. Sheesh, I was trying to set a different mood, and failed miserably!

So, lets prove that we can discuss politely by continuing, shall we? How does one distinguish the idea that satan has the “power to possess” from ordinary dualism? If the perception is there that there is such a power, and that power’s extent is unknown, then in the mind the power is an infinite power, an infinite unknown. Oh, we may say, “well, the devil has power, but nothing is greater than the power of God”, but this does not erase the perception of an infinite unknown. Manichaeism is a very real developmental phenomenon. Arguably, Manichaeism is the “status quo” of secular society, it is a natural manifestation of a normal conscience. To take a step further, in order to see the unconditionally loving God beneath the conscience takes a deeper look, such a deeper look manifests itself with statements like those I quoted from St. Augustine. (BTW, Cardinal Ratzinger writes of our unconditionally loving God in Introduction to Christianity which I am now almost finished reading.)

What I don’t share with St. Augustine is condemnation of Manichaeism. I think M. has its place in normal spiritual development!

 

[OneSheep]

P.S. OneSheep - I did go to the website you linked to and it seems at first glance place one that would do away with all the Ministries to those afflicted with demons. Do you agree with them or did you share the site here for shock value alone?

I agree, the site does not list all the times where exorcisms were of some help to individuals. As I stated before, there is a place for exorcisms. However, doing exorcisms without diligently following up with counseling and/or medical attention for the individual is a huge disservice.

As far as the website goes, which can be found on my post #56, I think it is very valuable to see what happens when people have the perception that someone is evil or that part of someone is evil. Have you read of the witch trials and so forth in the U.S.? The whole of it stems from a Manichaeistic dualism. This is not just a matter of people taking things too far, it is a matter of misperception, it goes to the core of people’s thinking, to the core of the workings of the conscience.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

My suspicion is that our doctors are reluctant to consider possession as a possible diagnosis and many poor people suffer needlessly.

That’s a good suspicion.

Doctors are not trained to spot or treat demonic possession. The Christian doctors would have enough humility to know that only God through his holy ones can cast out demons.

Where I think the psychiatrist can be useful is in identifying mental illness that is treatable.

 

[Aloysium]

As someone in the medical profession, I can absolutely GUARANTEE you that many schizophrenics who are untreated (not on their meds) will make you think they are possessed. . . .

I don’t know, but perhaps their illness leaves them vulnerable to possession.
On occasion one will encounter someone on the street SCREAMING! at persons not there. It appears to be a sort of common pattern. “Voices” seem too frequently to be attacking the unfortunate individual.
There was a Youtube video of a young man who was said to be possessed. To me it looked likely that he had “burned out” important parts of his brain with Cocaine or similar substance. He seemed a good candidate to be possessed.
This is all very interesting. I’m not sure the current world-view held by Psychiatry, which has as its mandate the treatment of mental (not spiritual) illness, will permit it to help clarify the matter.

 

[Starrsmother]

Thank you for the GUARANTEE.

Have you seen anyone suspected of schizophrenia who was diagnosed as possessed? How many diagnosis of possession does the medical profession give? Since they do not get paid for exorcisms, I suspect zero, or a very low number, How many schizophrenics are cured? I know almost all are medicated for life.

My suspicion is that our doctors are reluctant to consider possession as a possible diagnosis and many poor people suffer needlessly.

Maybe so, maybe not. I’ll guarantee you this as well though: before the Catholic church will permit an excorcism, they INSIST that the person be evaluated by qualified mental professionals and mental illness must be ruled out! Now that’s the CHURCH’S rule–not mine. If a person is diabetic he is put on insulin for life. So what? If a person has thyroid disease he will be put on thyroid meds for life. So what " AND if a person is schizophrenic and must be put on meds for life to maintain any degree of normal lifestyle, my question again is: SO WHAT? I suspect you haven’t seen many if any schizophrenics when they go off their meds–which is a genuine problem as they tend to decide sometimes that they feel so good, so normal, that they go off–deciding they no longer need their meds–that they are cured. Usually, they find out pretty quickly why they were put on those meds in the first place–if they don’t commit suicide or shoot up a school before they’re discovered. I’d say if whatever is wrong with a person’s mind, IF it responds to therapy and meds, that it isn’t a posession. I strongly doubt that you can medicate Satan right out of anyone! LOL!

 

[MtnDwellar]

I’d say if whatever is wrong with a person’s mind, IF it responds to therapy and meds, that it isn’t a posession. I strongly doubt that you can medicate Satan right out of anyone! LOL!

If a person’s cognitive faculties are desensitized, it may limit a devil’s ability to manifest.

You are correct. One cannot medicate Satan out of a person. Medication can limit or cause him to change his attack.

 

[glendab]

Hello Starrsmother.

Maybe so, maybe not. I’ll guarantee you this as well though: before the Catholic church will permit an excorcism, they INSIST that the person be evaluated by qualified mental professionals and mental illness must be ruled out! Now that’s the CHURCH’S rule–not mine. If a person is diabetic he is put on insulin for life. So what? If a person has thyroid disease he will be put on thyroid meds for life. So what " AND if a person is schizophrenic and must be put on meds for life to maintain any degree of normal lifestyle, my question again is: SO WHAT? I suspect you haven’t seen many if any schizophrenics when they go off their meds–which is a genuine problem as they tend to decide sometimes that they feel so good, so normal, that they go off–deciding they no longer need their meds–that they are cured. Usually, they find out pretty quickly why they were put on those meds in the first place–if they don’t commit suicide or shoot up a school before they’re discovered. I’d say if whatever is wrong with a person’s mind, IF it responds to therapy and meds, that it isn’t a posession. I strongly doubt that you can medicate Satan right out of anyone! LOL!

The Church has never said there aren’t cases of mental illness. The Church hasn’t said that there aren’t cases of possession. The Church wouldn’t invalidate anyone’s treatment for anything unless it was say a woman using the Pill to “regulate her period.” This tread isn’t about mental illness being dismissed wholesale by anyone at all. But I can only speak for myself. I wouldn’t tell someone who is suffering from depression and suicidal to go see a priest for exorcism. Nor would the Church.

However, suicide** is **one outcome of a person possessed and this is what the Church knows - Judas Iscariot the betrayer of Jesus was possessed by Satan and he hung himself. That is a fact of our Church’s history.

You are correct that person’s suffering from mental illness can seem like person’s possessed. That is why those who do exorcism’s usually call in doctors to examine the subject. I’ve said this several times in the thread already. Perhaps you missed that part. But to prolong the suffering of a person who actually is possessed in an attempt to “wait and see” if medication and therapy will work will do two things: fail and worsen the person afflicted.

Perhaps you think those trained, (as few as they are these days) who fill the Church’s Office of Exorcist are unqualified to determine that exorcism is necessary or that they will some how try to exorcise a mental illness? Is this a personal view of your? Do you not think they can tell the difference? That is a matter of personal nature regarding the confidence level you may experience in you own parish priests in your local parish. But trust me those trained have the knowledge and can tell the difference and do refer hysterics and depressives and all the other types of mental cases who may seek alternative “cures” for their sorrows in exorcism to those who can help them in the medical professions. In fact Catholic Social Services comes to mind a ministry of Catholic Charities and they do counsel folks all the time and they have a large network of mental health institutions to refer folks to. And they do.

Glenda

 

[glendab]

Hello OneSheep.

Yes, minus all the condescension. My catechesis informed me that Jesus spoke in the vernacular and the science of the day, he was not there to educate them about mental disorders or what have you. It is ridiculous to blame people 2000 years ago for not knowing what we know about the mind, psychology, and pathologies. Jesus’ words and actions are not diminished by modern science, period… How does one distinguish the idea that satan has the “power to possess” from ordinary dualism? If the perception is there that there is such a power, and that power’s extent is unknown, then in the mind the power is an infinite power, an infinite unknown. Oh, we may say, “well, the devil has power, but nothing is greater than the power of God”, but this does not erase the perception of an infinite unknown. !

You are correct in stating that God’s power is infinite and the human mind cannot grasp it. But to say it is an unknowable thing is incorrect. We can know that God knows all things.

As for your understanding of how Jesus spoke when He spoke that is yours and it may be in agreement with several persons *in the Church *but it isn’t the Church’s position. The Church has always believed and taught that Jesus actually did cast out demons, heal those suffering from the afflictions caused by demons and cured all sorts of illness, made the blind see, the lame walk the deaf and mute speak, and even brought back to life those who had did. The Church has always known that the cases of things demonic cited in the Bible are true accounts of things that happened long ago. The Church has always had the ability to discern the difference between persons possessed and persons who are in fact, ill. As did God Himself when He ministered to them.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts though.

Glenda

 

[glendab]

Hello again OneSheep.

Hi Glenda, I have read through your posts on this thread and gleaned a few examples. To me, it behooves us to return to the question. “Why do people do what they do?”

So here the question is "why do people watch bad movies without being able to see how bad they are? Well, I think you said it. Some people cannot see how bad a movie is, and some people make some pretty lousy movies for those people to watch. Where does satan enter into the equation?

This time, the question is, “why did the boy have amnesia?”

A fact, is it? Well, it depends on the definition of demonic possession. Let us take, for example, addiction. Do people ever want to become addicted to something, in the sense that they would suffer without experiencing the item to which addicted? No, probably not at the deeper level, from the level of desire for freedom and autonomy. Is the addict “possessed”? Arguably, yes, that can be seen as factual.

What else “possesses” people? All of the appetites can possess us, in a way. We can be slaves to them all, and we can be slaves to our own hatred and righteousness, unwilling to forgive and let go.

1st question: concupiscence.
2nd question: some people have no taste.
3rd question: I think the devil laughs when people watch porn and the like.
4th question: I have no clinical idea why the boy had amnesia during periods in his affliction. It is a feature that spares folks I think. The child actually permanently injured a priest who could barely serve Mass for the rest of his life because of a physical attack on him during a botched attempt to exorcise the child. They said that Priest was never the same afterwards and would never attend another exorcism again. It isn’t for everyone. Only those called to the ministry. I think, and this is just my opinion, that the mind blanks it out as a self-protective measure as it does for other traumas. You’d have to consult with those who actually minister as exorcists for deeper knowledge.
5th question: Yes it is a fact - not everyone who has had a problem for a demon wanted it and come to think of it, most don’t. It seems ludicrous to me that someone would think that those who become possessed asked for it somehow.
aside to 5th question - no I don’t think we can change the definition of demonic possession. One is or one isn’t. To extend it into the realm of addictions or those who demon is rum is that - an exaggeration which hinders their understanding and treatment. I don’t think people *intend *to become slaves to a substance at the beginning of addiction, but it happens. They lose the ability to choose slowly how they will live their lives and a substance takes all choices from them eventually and then it takes their lives.
6th question: NO, I don’t think folks want to be addicted at all.
7th question: based upon a faulty premise that you’ve chosen to extend the definition of possession to those addicted. This doesn’t make it so though. An addict is addicted not possessed.
8th question: No folks cannot be possessed by food, sports, gambling, drugs or any other thing or person. Possession refers in this case to the demon only and that is what the thread is about - demonic possession.

You doubt it is real but that is you. I can respect your opinions, but I don’t agree.

On another sidebar to the addiction notion - I have heard in law enforcement circles of those who actually witnessed the use of Witchdoctors who stood and cast spells over the wrapped parcels of Cocaine before it was shipped here to this country so it would completely destroy those who use it. It was their hopes that the demon would invade all those who used the coke from those parcels and when they ingested it, they would become possessed. Yeah, the strange but true dept. from the annals of the DEA. As if the power of the drugs weren’t enough for the poor folks who are inclined to seek relief for their troubles in powder form. They get to battle the witchdoctor’s spells as well.

Glenda

 

[OneSheep]

Hello OneSheep.

You are correct in stating that God’s power is infinite and the human mind cannot grasp it. But to say it is an unknowable thing is incorrect. We can know that God knows all things.

Yes, we can know that God is omniscient.

However, the idea that there is another power in the world is still a dualistic view. And if that power is so great that it “possesses” someone, this only underscores Manichaeism.

So, there is a contradiction in our whole theology, and I welcome the contradiction. As I stated before, perception of an “evil power”, the Star Wars theology, is both normal and natural. I will go so far to say that it is a necessary part of spiritual development. However, when forgiveness is applied to all, the perception ends.

We can forgive others, ourselves, our appetites, our capacities. We can forgive every aspect of ourselves and others that we resent. When we do this, the cloud of perceiving such a separate power simply disappears.

So, no, I no longer believe in demonic possessions, and to me it does not diminish in the least Jesus’ ministry where he did miracles that people of the day described as “casting out demons”.

As for your understanding of how Jesus spoke when He spoke that is yours and it may be in agreement with several persons *in the Church *but it isn’t the Church’s position. The Church has always believed and taught that Jesus actually did cast out demons, heal those suffering from the afflictions caused by demons and cured all sorts of illness, made the blind see, the lame walk the deaf and mute speak, and even brought back to life those who had did. The Church has always known that the cases of things demonic cited in the Bible are true accounts of things that happened long ago. The Church has always had the ability to discern the difference between persons possessed and persons who are in fact, ill. As did God Himself when He ministered to them.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts though.

Glenda

I thank you for sharing yours, and I respect yours.

It is with love and respect that I encourage you to apply forgiveness in the broadest sense, to forgive everything you resent, and just see what happens. I am talking about a forgiveness in terms of understanding why people do what they do, digging a bit deeper. Our minds default mode is to block such inquiry with words like “evil”, “pride”, “concupiscence”, “insanity”, “ego” and a plethora of other negative terms, but when we refuse to use a condemning word as an explanation, and dig deeper in understanding until such condemnation goes away, then forgiveness has truly happened. The application of those terms used with negativity, of course, depends on the individual.

That is my journey, and it is a Catholic journey. There is plenty of room for both of our views. In fact, I see it as a huge error to throw out as “unCatholic” either one of our positions.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . There is plenty of room for both of our views. In fact, I see it as a huge error to throw out as “unCatholic” either one of our positions.

There’s room for all views, but one truth.

"We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all that is, seen and unseen. . . "

I have a guardian angel.
It makes sense that, as there is existence in the form of animal and plant life and simple matter below, there are creatures above us in spiritual realms.
As we have free will and have chosen badly, some angels did likewise.
Angels help us, and demons thwart us in our efforts to reach God.

I think it makes a difference how this is conceptualized as it clarifies our position (which is central given the reality of Jesus) within the totality of creation.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . It is with love and respect that I encourage you to apply forgiveness in the broadest sense, to forgive everything you resent, and just see what happens. I am talking about a forgiveness in terms of understanding why people do what they do, digging a bit deeper. **Our minds default mode is to block such inquiry with words like “evil”, “pride”, “concupiscence”, “insanity”, “ego” and a plethora of other negative terms, but when we refuse to use a condemning word as an explanation, and dig deeper in understanding until such condemnation goes away, then forgiveness has truly happened. ** The application of those terms used with negativity, of course, depends on the individual. . . .

Those words that you would ignore are very important in understanding the truth of what is good and what is not.

I am a sinner, so forgiveness is always a work in progress. It is only through the power of Jesus, forgiving us that we are able to forgive others. I cannot forgive myself: “Forgive us our trespasses”

CCC: Mercy and Sin

1846 The Gospel is the revelation in Jesus Christ of God’s mercy to sinners. The angel announced to Joseph: “You shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” The same is true of the Eucharist, the sacrament of redemption: “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”
1847 “God created us without us: but he did not will to save us without us.” To receive his mercy, we must admit our faults. “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
1848 As St. Paul affirms, “Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more.” But to do its work grace must uncover sin so as to convert our hearts and bestow on us “righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ ourLord.” Like a physician who probes the wound before treating it, God, by his Word and by his Spirit, casts a living light on sin:

Conversion requires convincing of sin; it includes the interior judgment of conscience, and this, being a proof of the action of the Spirit of truth in man’s inmost being, becomes at the same time the start of a new grant of grace and love: “Receive the Holy Spirit.” Thus in this “convincing concerning sin” we discover a double gift: the gift of the truth of conscience and the gift of the certainty of redemption. the Spirit of truth is the Consoler.

 

[glendab]

Hello Again OneSheep.

Yes, we can know that God is omniscient.

However, the idea that there is another power in the world is still a dualistic view. And if that power is so great that it “possesses” someone, this only underscores Manichaeism.

So, there is a contradiction in our whole theology, and I welcome the contradiction. As I stated before, perception of an “evil power”, the Star Wars theology, is both normal and natural. I will go so far to say that it is a necessary part of spiritual development. However, when forgiveness is applied to all, the perception ends.

We can forgive others, ourselves, our appetites, our capacities. We can forgive every aspect of ourselves and others that we resent. When we do this, the cloud of perceiving such a separate power simply disappears.

So, no, I no longer believe in demonic possessions, and to me it does not diminish in the least Jesus’ ministry where he did miracles that people of the day described as “casting out demons”.

I thank you for sharing yours, and I respect yours.

It is with love and respect that I encourage you to apply forgiveness in the broadest sense, to forgive everything you resent, and just see what happens. I am talking about a forgiveness in terms of understanding why people do what they do, digging a bit deeper. Our minds default mode is to block such inquiry with words like “evil”, “pride”, “concupiscence”, “insanity”, “ego” and a plethora of other negative terms, but when we refuse to use a condemning word as an explanation, and dig deeper in understanding until such condemnation goes away, then forgiveness has truly happened. The application of those terms used with negativity, of course, depends on the individual.

That is my journey, and it is a Catholic journey. There is plenty of room for both of our views. In fact, I see it as a huge error to throw out as “unCatholic” either one of our positions.

Thank you for the reply and while I can respect your opinions there are several levels on which I cannot agree with you. Please don’t be insulted by the term I’m about to use, but it seems to fit - yours is a kind of Cafeteria Catholicism, pick what you like and leave the rest. And it really does describe the eclectic viewpoint you seem to have. Am I correct? You don’t see anything wrong with some of the things some of us Catholics call heresy - Manichaeism, Modernism, etc. and think the demon can be wholesalely exorcised by thinking differently and that God did what He did only in a figurative sense? Correct? You see things that the rest of us would call demonic in origin as only a matter of attitude semantics and mind over matters, sort of. Have I got the picture accurately? If not, correct me. Flesh it out for us.

As fro my own personal “spiritual development” I’m a convert to the faith and didn’t really have another religion before I bean my search for God and the meaning of life in general, so some of us take a different turn in the spiritual life than you have perhaps. I’m guessing your a Cradle Catholic as well. I really don’t like using stereo types but for the sake of time and polite conversation, they eliminate some of the guess work. Please don’t be offended.

Glenda

 

[MtnDwellar]

So, no, I no longer believe in demonic possessions, and to me it does not diminish in the least Jesus’ ministry where he did miracles that people of the day described as “casting out demons”.

Demonic possession is not something to believe or disblieve. For those who have seen the diabolic manifest and witnessed the violations of conventional laws of physics, these things are factual.

No mentally ill or mentally healthy person can cause physical objects to levitate, create disembodied voices, or make matter appear or dissapear. There is really only one conclusion available…it happens.

 

[Thorns]

Hello Thorns.

I need to remind you that this thread is about demonic possession not mental states that are annoying. While I have deep empathy for those troubled by their thought process and who partake of the resources available through our ever broadening knowledge of the physchology of abnormal behaviors and their treatments, it is NOT to be confused or compared to actual demonic possession.

These days the two services can work well together and part of the process whereby a Bishop will authorize an exorcism includes an evaluation by those persons familiar with the types of mental illnesses that* can *manifest themselves in either similar symptoms to demonic possession or it’s other states, (vexation, etc.) or actual feigned cases of possession as can be found among hysterics who crave odd attention. One prime example is among those who are afflicted with BPD, Borderline Personality Disorder, which used to be known as the “split personality.” One feature of that sad condition is for the person to all of a sudden speak a foreign language or total change in appearance and behaviors. Persons with BPD also self-injure. All three of these symptoms carry a similarity to symptoms of actual possession. It takes both a doctor and a priest to tell if medical intervention is necessary or the art of the exorcist. Either way, both conditions deserve our love and compassion and understanding.

But it does a grave disservice and can actually harm an individual who suffers from some forms of mental illness to within their earshot infer that they may be possessed or to accuse them by implying that there illness may be demonic in origin and they are somehow at fault for it. One other thing, for those among us who actually have had genuine experiences of thing not of this world and been relieved, the implication that it was a mental problem is unkind to say the least. Those persons are usually told to keep it to themselves and they do. Part of that reason is because folks compare mental illness to their affliction and blame them for it.

Exorcism is a valid and much needed ministry in the Church and the suppression of the Office that has been allowed to occur, well I tend to agree with a few folks who are distressed by this trend and are working to end it.

Glenda

I was referring to Diabolical Obsession, not like OCD or anything.

Being fixated on fear of the devil can probably manifest Diabolical Oppression, or like I was saying, Diabolical Obsession, since it controls you and bullies you.

 

[OneSheep]

My quote:
Our minds default mode is to block such inquiry with words like “evil”, “pride”, “concupiscence”, “insanity”, “ego” and a plethora of other negative terms, but when we refuse to use a condemning word as an explanation, and dig deeper in understanding until such condemnation goes away, then forgiveness has truly happened.

Those words that you would ignore are very important in understanding the truth of what is good and what is not.

I am a sinner, so forgiveness is always a work in progress. It is only through the power of Jesus, forgiving us that we are able to forgive others. I cannot forgive myself: “Forgive us our trespasses”

Okay, let’s do some truth seeking together, shall we? Think of an instance of sin, and let us investigate the cause. We can determine if one of those words provides an adequate explanation.

Yes, you can forgive yourself, if you hold something against yourself. Jesus said, “If you hold anything against anyone, forgive…” Do you think that does not apply to ourselves?

Many people who have gone to confession say, “okay, I know God forgives me, but I can’t forgive myself.” The common response on the forum is “you just have to know that God forgives you.”, but this does not resolve the conflict within the human. What resolves the conflict is a lot of prayer and understanding, which is the “work in progress” in my view. It involves a reconciliation within, forgiveness of ourselves.

 

[OneSheep]

Demonic possession is not something to believe or disblieve. For those who have seen the diabolic manifest and witnessed the violations of conventional laws of physics, these things are factual.

No mentally ill or mentally healthy person can cause physical objects to levitate, create disembodied voices, or make matter appear or dissapear. There is really only one conclusion available…it happens.

I am not witness to such occurrences. When I see it, or see a scientifically verifiable case study, I may believe it. In the mean time, it has no bearing on what I see as truth, and it certainly has no effect whatsoever on my faith in Jesus or commitment to Mother Church. Does it have a bearing on yours? Would you still be committed to Jesus if there were no such thing as demonic possessions?

I respect your observations, though. Have a blessed day!