ON TAPE: MINNEAPOLIS Priest Blasts Vatican Cardinal and Archbishop over Homosexuality During Homily

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New Ulm,

It is clear that we are approaching our understanding of God and His Church from different perspectives. I try very hard to pay heed to God’s Word (The Scriptures) and the historical teachings and practices (Tradition) of His Church.

It appears to me that you believe that one is open to changing personal interpretation depending on the public concensus of the time and the other is prone to error. In other words, there is no authority except the general public concensus. The Bible and the historical Tradition of the Church mean nothing.

If in fact, homosexual acts (not the inclination, but the acts) are inherently sinful, the Church would be derelict in her responsibility to teach were she not to point this out. If a man is happily rowing down stream towards the waterfall, is it compassionate to allow him to enjoy his “happiness” and continue towards the waterfall or is it compassionate to tell him that he is approaching the waterfall and help him get out of the river before he goes over?

Now, you may disagree that homosexual acts are intrinsically sinful, in which case the Church is wrong on this and if she is wrong on this she can be wrong on anything else, so there is no point in having a church at all. I mean, if the Church can be wrong, maybe there is no God, maybe Jesus is a myth. If the Church is subject to teaching error, nothing that is taught by the Church can be trusted, not even the scriptures, because it is the Church that established the Canon of the Scriptures.

For my part, I tend to accept that Christ established His Church on Peter and the Apostles and that they taught what they learned from him and the Holy Spirit and that those teachings have been faithfully handed down through the ages.

In addition to this errant priest and his flock, I will also pray for you, that you will humbly submit not to the Church established by our Lord, Jesus Christ.
 
Hae you ever heard of the unicorn in the sanctuary. Well, he/she/it is here.
Deacon Ed B
 
All too often in the past, Catholics have allowed their compassion to be invoked without asking the right questions in return. During the abortion debate before Roe v. Wade passed in 1973, voters were told: “This is likely the most difficult decision a woman could ever make and is between her and her God.” Now we have abortion on demand and the killing of babies inches away from life.

A priest, any priest, that speaks against established Church teaching needs to be thoughtfully brought to the attention of the proper authorities within the Church. Individuals, after careful consideration and prayerful guidance, should also speak up in a manner that is appropriate.

Then, in the spirit of understanding, something should be done. And yes, every “small” message helps. The errors that have crept into the Church come from diverse sources. Sometimes, such people even think they are doing God’s work. As the leader and teacher of his flock, the priest must be reminded of his duty and responsibility. Whatever has changed in the world has not changed the Word of God. And remember, there is no future, truly, for any of us, without forgiveness. So this is not about anger but about standing up for the truth held by the Catholic Church.

And those who wish to disrupt services to make their personal statements and to violate the peace and sanctity of God’s house need to be spoken to as well.

God bless,
Ed
 
To Ed West - I love your response, but I must correct you on one point. You make the statement that babies are killed inches away from life. I presume you are speaking about partial birth abortion, which is indeed horrible. BUT, life begins at conception. It is fully human and a human baby at the moment of conception and is alive. Life does not begin at birth. Life outside the womb does, but that life started at conception. I am sure you did not intend this mistake, but I corrected it in case someone is misled.
Deacon Ed B
 
Thank you. You are correct. It, however, should shock people that a baby inches away from the outside world is still not considered legally defendable as a person. Very sad.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Thank you. You are correct. It, however, should shock people that a baby inches away from the outside world is still not considered legally defendable as a person. Very sad.

God bless,
Ed
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What infuriates me is that on some point the courts get that a human fetus is a living person. If a criminal kills a mother and her infant in her womb, he can be held liable for 2 counts of homicide. Why can’t an abortionist be held liable for one and the mother an accomplice?
 
You know what they say. Even a busted clock is correct twice a day.
Deacon Ed B
 
alessandro said:
“The smoke of Satan has found its way into the Church through the fissures.” – Pope Paul VI.
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I think part of the problem is the lack of discipline in the Church. We are all children of God and children need discipline and direction. We have seen recently what happens when their is no dicsipline, no parenting, case in point, today’s children.
 
Exactly right. Each one of us needs to pick up a Catechism. Each one of us needs to rededicate ourselves This time of Lent is the perfect time.

God bless,
Ed
 
Semper_Fi said:
What infuriates me is that on some point the courts get that a human fetus is a living person. If a criminal kills a mother and her infant in her womb, he can be held liable for 2 counts of homicide. Why can’t an abortionist be held liable for one and the mother an accomplice?
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It makes perfect sense when you understand the worldview of the culture we live in. This a culture of “morality by feeling.” If it FEELS right, then it is right. If it feels wrong, then it is wrong. Naturally, there are still exceptions, but most of them are based on the fact that the majority FEELS that those things are wrong, regardless of how the perpetrator feels.

Thus, homosexual sex can’t be wrong because it doesn’t feel like it to those inclined to it. Abortion can’t be wrong because the woman in crisis feels like it is the only alternative that she can live with. When morality is determined on this basis, there is no incongruity with laws that allow a man who deliberately kills an unborn child against his mother’s will (say punching her repeatedly in the stomach) to be punished as a murderer, while another man kills unwanted unborn children routinely at the behest of the mother and is protected by law. Since only us lunatic religous zealots FEEL otherwise, its all good. 😦
 
manualman said:
It makes perfect sense when you understand the worldview of the culture we live in. This a culture of “morality by feeling.” If it FEELS right, then it is right. If it feels wrong, then it is wrong. Naturally, there are still exceptions, but most of them are based on the fact that the majority FEELS that those things are wrong, regardless of how the perpetrator feels.

Thus, homosexual sex can’t be wrong because it doesn’t feel like it to those inclined to it. Abortion can’t be wrong because the woman in crisis feels like it is the only alternative that she can live with. When morality is determined on this basis, there is no incongruity with laws that allow a man who deliberately kills an unborn child against his mother’s will (say punching her repeatedly in the stomach) to be punished as a murderer, while another man kills unwanted unborn children routinely at the behest of the mother and is protected by law. Since only us lunatic religous zealots FEEL otherwise, its all good. 😦
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Oh for the days when the Church would stand up and proclaim, “ANATHEMA”!
 
This is a very hard topic to speak on. there are those that have said we need to show compassion, love, understanding and acceptance to those who are homosexual. I agree with all but the acceptance. The line has been drawn and those that are homosexual must make a decision.

!) Do I live in a state of sin and pray that God forgives me.
  1. Do I live in a state of sin and thumb my nose at God.
  2. Do I live a life of celibacy, avoid the sin of homosexual acts and pray for Gods grace.
The Church can not condone the option # 1.
From the very first couple on earth we see man in opposition to Gods will and trying to justify Acts against Gods laws. The homosexual has a fight on their hands, they must fight the nature of their human desire for compliance with the Will of God. For them it is a fight that is not only about the need for sexual contact, as most all have that fight to fight, it come to be a fight that the only way to win is coming to the point that they can not have that intimacy. That a marriage to one of the opposite sex is not a option for them, so they fight against the only other option ( celibacy). This priest and those like him need to be offering prayers for them not trying to create an acceptance of a sin.
 
Many years ago, as a young man, I remember reading one of St. Paul’s epistles. It spoke of those who were created to be celibate. I wondered what it meant. I now know. Those who are homosexual do not need our condemnation, they need our prayers. What really gets me is the “in your face” demonstrations, parades, desecrations of churches and interruptions of masses. This does not help them one iota. If they only knew what they were doing to themselves when they do that. We can never accept same sex marriage.

I remember before I retired, the company I worked for was into “celebrate diversity”. We even had training meetings, (I called them indoctrination sessions) which were mandatory. I spoke up at one and said I would not celebrate diversity, if that diversity was against the moral teachings of my Church. Would I discriminate against those in the work place? No I would not, but I would not celebrate that which I believed was morally wrong. Others in the meeting spoke up and started echoing the same thing. The company still went though their program, but did nothing to those who spoke up as we did in that meeting.

Discrimination, hate, etc. are not called for. Prayer is. Remember, prayer can move mountains. This one we have to move is bigger than Everest. So lets all pray for them, and for God’s will to be done on earth, as it is in heaven.
Deacon Ed B
 
To interupt the Mass to express a social behavior and promotion of it is tantamount to breaking down the door which led to the Upper Room where Our Savior is instituting for all of us His Body and blood so to acquire eternal life.

Uninvited demonstrations is not any different…IT IS PATENTLY EVIL.
 
Fr. Tibesar needs our prayers. I know him personally and have learned that he does not live by the light of truth. I heard him say in the Prayers of the Faithful on January 22nd that thousands in this country had been aborted. When I confronted him with the facts (47 million plus abortions in this country since Roe v Wade) after Mass that day (in private), he accused me of exaggerating. I left that encounter extremely sad because I know Father to be very well-read and very intelligent. The only thing I could conclude was that he is refusing to live in the truth. If a person refuses to live in the truth, he is going down a path that is away from Jesus. (“I am the way and the truth and the life.” John 14:6) And, if a priest refuses to live in truth, he will take his congregation down with him. I heard once that Satan has it easy once he gets to the pastor. If the pastor falls, so will his congregation. Please pray with all your might for our priests.
 
brockmac said:
This is the same parish (and presumably priest) who wishes to “bless” homosexual couples in a ceremony similar to a wedding. This priest is in dire need of both discipline from his local Ordinary, and our prayers. I don’t know how someone can go through the formation process and allow himself to be ordained (promising fealty to his bishop and the pope) if he has these disagreements. If he cannot keep his vow of obidience he should probably turn in his collar.

I will be praying for him, his bishop and his congregation.
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I’d have to agree. If this ordained priest can’t come to grips with the Vatican’s teachings regarding homosexuality, then I think it’s time he step down.

Maybe he doesn’t fully understand why the Church is so against homosexuality. This doesn’t make him a bad person, but it does make him unfit to preach to others under the auspices of Catholicism.
 
ChristianWAB said:
I’d have to agree. If this ordained priest can’t come to grips with the Vatican’s teachings regarding homosexuality, then I think it’s time he step down.

Maybe he doesn’t fully understand why the Church is so against homosexuality. This doesn’t make him a bad person, but it does make him unfit to preach to others under the auspices of Catholicism.
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Vatican refirms its stance against gay seminarians

www.catholicnewsagency.com/news.php?n=12677

You will have to scroll down a few items.
 
pianoplayingmom said:
Fr. Tibesar needs our prayers. I know him personally and have learned that he does not live by the light of truth. I heard him say in the Prayers of the Faithful on January 22nd that thousands in this country had been aborted. When I confronted him with the facts (47 million plus abortions in this country since Roe v Wade) after Mass that day (in private), he accused me of exaggerating. I left that encounter extremely sad because I know Father to be very well-read and very intelligent. The only thing I could conclude was that he is refusing to live in the truth. If a person refuses to live in the truth, he is going down a path that is away from Jesus. (“I am the way and the truth and the life.” John 14:6) And, if a priest refuses to live in truth, he will take his congregation down with him. I heard once that Satan has it easy once he gets to the pastor. If the pastor falls, so will his congregation. Please pray with all your might for our priests.
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Using rigid language related to the “truth” unfairly closes off discussion on anything, as the discussion is over before it even starts. The priest has his views, you have yours, neither is incorrect, it just comes down to personal differences.
 
ChristianWAB said:
I’d have to agree. If this ordained priest can’t come to grips with the Vatican’s teachings regarding homosexuality, then I think it’s time he step down.

Maybe he doesn’t fully understand why the Church is so against homosexuality. This doesn’t make him a bad person, but it does make him unfit to preach to others under the auspices of Catholicism.
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You also have to relate this to the now Archbishop’s newspaper editorial from Nov 15, 07. The status of homosexuality in the St Paul Archdiocese varies wildly from the archbishop to the priests to the pews. This priest is still more than capable to preach to others, Catholicism is a broad tent, not a rigid, narrow belief system.
 
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