A
AlNg
Guest
Well then, why were NATO tanks parading in Moldova?
And generally Ukrainians will speak Russian in Moldova, not Ukrainian.
Last edited:
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
P
Profete
Guest
Yee lets hate Putin and like Obama who almost forbade Americans to wish each others Marry Christmas.
Second, Almost every Orthodox Patriarchate has Churches around the world, because the Church of Rome left the void in the west, so when Orthodox Peoples immigrated to the Americans and Australia, they brought their Churches with them. But Jurisdiction is known in the “Old Lands”. Moscow Patriarchate cant do anything in Turkey or Northen Greece without the blessing from the Constantinople and the other way around, because canonical order does exist in most of the Old Lands. In the western lands (Europe, America) Everyone has Churches because the Church of Rome has left Orthodox Communion and has created a jurisdiction’s vacum.
What both Constantinople and Moscow and all other Orthodox Patriarchates teach is that in case of reunification, Byzantine Catholics must return to their Orthodox Patriarchates, and in the “Latin Lands” Orthodox bishops there would have to answer to the Latin Church. But Latin Church wants universal jurisdiction and has made it’s push in Ukraine but it got stuck there, evil Russia stopped them, do you forget that pope actually launched a Crusade in 13th century against Russians for being Orthodox?
Second, Almost every Orthodox Patriarchate has Churches around the world, because the Church of Rome left the void in the west, so when Orthodox Peoples immigrated to the Americans and Australia, they brought their Churches with them. But Jurisdiction is known in the “Old Lands”. Moscow Patriarchate cant do anything in Turkey or Northen Greece without the blessing from the Constantinople and the other way around, because canonical order does exist in most of the Old Lands. In the western lands (Europe, America) Everyone has Churches because the Church of Rome has left Orthodox Communion and has created a jurisdiction’s vacum.
What both Constantinople and Moscow and all other Orthodox Patriarchates teach is that in case of reunification, Byzantine Catholics must return to their Orthodox Patriarchates, and in the “Latin Lands” Orthodox bishops there would have to answer to the Latin Church. But Latin Church wants universal jurisdiction and has made it’s push in Ukraine but it got stuck there, evil Russia stopped them, do you forget that pope actually launched a Crusade in 13th century against Russians for being Orthodox?
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
By golly, you’re right. Each student must take two languages. Their choices are French, English, Italian and German. English is the most popular and most Romanians under age 30 speak it.Every student in Romania is REQUIRED to take English in school by the government.
Oh yeah? I thought you could take French or German? What is your reference for this?
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Romanians-speak-foreign-languages-so-well
Romanian, of course, is almost entirely a Romance language, most akin to Italian. But English is about half Latin-based and half Anglo-Saxon, a language most akin to the Frisian dialect of Dutch. I understand Italian is the easiest for a Romanian to learn, but English is more popular because it’s the language of business almost worldwide.
A
AlNg
Guest
Are you also willing to admit that there were NATO tanks parading in Moldova and that there were demonstrations against this? And that this is not propaganda?By golly, you’re right.
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
I didn’t like Obama either. But at least he wasn’t a former KGB gangland overlord like Putin.Yee lets hate Putin and like Obama who almost forbade Americans to wish each others Marry Christmas.
Second, Almost every Orthodox Patriarchate has Churches around the world, because the Church of Rome left the void in the west, so when Orthodox Peoples immigrated to the Americans and Australia, they brought their Churches with them. But Jurisdiction is known in the “Old Lands”. Moscow Patriarchate cant do anything in Turkey or Northen Greece without the blessing from the Constantinople and the other way around, because canonical order does exist in most of the Old Lands. In the western lands (Europe, America) Everyone has Churches because the Church of Rome has left Orthodox Communion and has created a jurisdiction’s vacum.
What both Constantinople and Moscow and all other Orthodox Patriarchates teach is that in case of reunification, Byzantine Catholics must return to their Orthodox Patriarchates, and in the “Latin Lands” Orthodox bishops there would have to answer to the Latin Church. But Latin Church wants universal jurisdiction and has made it’s push in Ukraine but it got stuck there, evil Russia stopped them, do you forget that pope actually launched a Crusade in 13th century against Russians for being Orthodox?
Put it any way you like about the Moscow Patriarchate’s claims, but many E.O. on here have admitted that Moscow claims the Latin Church should not be anywhere other than in the City of Rome and some countryside around it. All the rest of the world is Moscow’s alone, and the Latin Church (and the Greek E.O.) should not be there at all except that Moscow will allow Constantinople to be in Turkey and Greece.
But basically you have, in this post, admitted what other E.O. here have said. You may call it “canonical order” all you like, but to us Latin Catholics it’s tyranny of a church that is an arm of the Russian state.
As one of the few “state churches” left on earth, Moscow can pride itself over its ethnicity if it wants. But there is absolutely no possibility the Latin Church, which massively outnumbers it, will ever submit to the Patriarch of Moscow.
The Catholic Church believes all churches should have freedom to move worldwide. It’s not an “ethnic church” of a single people.
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
I am aware there was, some time ago, a U.S. training mission in Moldova. I’m not sure if it’s still there. As part of that, the defense minister of Moldova invited a show of U.S. military equipment in the town where the mission was located or to be located, in celebration of a Moldovan holiday which I think honored victory over German forces in WWII. A socialist party attempted to block the U.S. equipment’s entry into the country, but was dispersed by personnel of the Ministry of Defense of Moldova and the police. Apparently, the Americans were then escorted by Moldovan military vehicles to the place of exhibition.Are you also willing to admit that there were NATO tanks parading in Moldova and that there were demonstrations against this? And that this is not propaganda?
Is that what you’re talking about? If so, it was a long way from being some kind of NATO invasion of Moldova. But I don’t doubt Putin has another version somewhere. I couldn’t find it though.
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/05/us-military-arrives-at-training-ground.html
Last edited:
P
Profete
Guest
The Church of Rome caused the Schism by demanding Universal Jurisdiction, and now you want to accuse the Church of Moscow of that. That is pathetic.
Second, the Church of Moscow or any other Orthodox Church will never submit to the Church of Rome. And the Latin Church is only growing in Africa thanks to the high Fertility Rate, in it’s Cradle Lands of Europe it is long dead, in South America you are losing it to the Protestants. So your numbers wont last for too long. You will need a lot more then a populist style pope to fix that. While the Church of Moscow is building three Churches per day and has declared that in next 20 years it will have more Churches than before the Communist Revolution.
You are probably destroying or selling 3 churches per day in Europe. So don’t be proud about your shrinking numbers.
Second, the Church of Moscow or any other Orthodox Church will never submit to the Church of Rome. And the Latin Church is only growing in Africa thanks to the high Fertility Rate, in it’s Cradle Lands of Europe it is long dead, in South America you are losing it to the Protestants. So your numbers wont last for too long. You will need a lot more then a populist style pope to fix that. While the Church of Moscow is building three Churches per day and has declared that in next 20 years it will have more Churches than before the Communist Revolution.
You are probably destroying or selling 3 churches per day in Europe. So don’t be proud about your shrinking numbers.
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
We on CAF were told long ago by E.O. that there’s no possibility of reunion with the Moscow Patriarchate, so we understand that. Given the demands of Moscow, no church would anyway. Actually, there is much greater likelihood that protestants in places like America will convert. My own parish welcomes about a 5% annual increase from converts from Protestantism.
And the schism predated the foundation of the Moscow Patriarchate. You inherited the schism from the Greeks, just as you inherited Orthodoxy itself from them.
It does have to be admitted that Latin numbers are not good in some parts of Europe, better in others, but not what they should be when actual attendance is counted.
88% of Frenchmen claim to be Catholic, but the percentage who actually attend is about 11%, lower than just about any country except Russia where both claimed membership and actual attendance are lower still, but not by much.
But the numbers are over 50% in some European countries, like Ireland. Still not good.
Attendance is far higher than it is in either France or Russia in the U.S. and in most Latin American countries.
And once again, the Latin Church does not claim territory as the Russian church does. As far as the Latin Church is concerned, Orthodoxy is free to be wherever it wants to be. But it asserts the same right for itself.
Probably it would be helpful to the digestion of E.O. if nothing else to realize that the CAtholic Church does not bear any ill will toward orthodoxy or the orthodox members. The ill will is totally one-sided.
And the schism predated the foundation of the Moscow Patriarchate. You inherited the schism from the Greeks, just as you inherited Orthodoxy itself from them.
It does have to be admitted that Latin numbers are not good in some parts of Europe, better in others, but not what they should be when actual attendance is counted.
88% of Frenchmen claim to be Catholic, but the percentage who actually attend is about 11%, lower than just about any country except Russia where both claimed membership and actual attendance are lower still, but not by much.
But the numbers are over 50% in some European countries, like Ireland. Still not good.
Attendance is far higher than it is in either France or Russia in the U.S. and in most Latin American countries.
And once again, the Latin Church does not claim territory as the Russian church does. As far as the Latin Church is concerned, Orthodoxy is free to be wherever it wants to be. But it asserts the same right for itself.
Probably it would be helpful to the digestion of E.O. if nothing else to realize that the CAtholic Church does not bear any ill will toward orthodoxy or the orthodox members. The ill will is totally one-sided.
Last edited:
N
niceatheist
Guest
It doesn’t sound so much like ill-will as it sounds like paranoia. Whatever Russian Orthodox attendance rates in Russia itself, from where does this paranoia stem? Are some Russians that paranoid of the West that they imagine the RCC is part of some vast conspiracy to undermine Russia?
I’d say this paranoia is at the root of everything; the need to try to punish Ukraine for moving more westward, the use of ethnic Russian minorities as cover for invasions and annexations. I can understand that many Russians look at post-Soviet Russia in the 1990s and remember a horrible time, and yes, they’ve had to accept that many of their traditional satellite states have joined NATO, but there seems a total unwillingness to admit that Russia itself, whether under the Czars or under the Communists, created a great deal of distrust towards Russia, if not outright fear. All this talk of invading all of Ukraine doesn’t sound like a superpower flexing its new muscles, but rather a greatly shrunken state that is desperately trying to build some sort of pathetic facsimile of the Warsaw Pact.
I’d say this paranoia is at the root of everything; the need to try to punish Ukraine for moving more westward, the use of ethnic Russian minorities as cover for invasions and annexations. I can understand that many Russians look at post-Soviet Russia in the 1990s and remember a horrible time, and yes, they’ve had to accept that many of their traditional satellite states have joined NATO, but there seems a total unwillingness to admit that Russia itself, whether under the Czars or under the Communists, created a great deal of distrust towards Russia, if not outright fear. All this talk of invading all of Ukraine doesn’t sound like a superpower flexing its new muscles, but rather a greatly shrunken state that is desperately trying to build some sort of pathetic facsimile of the Warsaw Pact.
A
AlNg
Guest
That’s not what I said. I said that there was a parade of NATO tanks in Moldova and that there were people demonstrating against it.it was a long way from being some kind of NATO invasion of Moldova.
A
AlNg
Guest
Exactly right. Putin is supporting the Russian Orthodox Church and the rebuilding of hundreds of Russian Orthodox Churches. And now we see posters here claiming that he is a fascist.the Church of Moscow is building three Churches per day
You see, some of the Catholic posters here are upset that while Putin is supporting the rebuilding and restoration of the Russian Orthodox Church, and hundreds of new Russian Orthodox churches are being built in Russia, what is happening to the Roman Catholic churches in Europe and the USA? Many are being torn down, some are even being converted into mosques. Catholic church attendance is lower now than it was 60 years ago. In the 1950’s weekly church attendance for American Catholics was at about 75%. Today, it is about 23%.there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between the Putin fascist regime and any other fascist regime on the planet.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/catholics_approve_of_pope_benedict_but_dont_attend_mass
A
AlNg
Guest
Reunion of EO and RC might be nearly impossible, but not completely so, as Father Thomas Hopko has pointed out.We on CAF were told long ago by E.O. that there’s no possibility of reunion with the Moscow Patriarchate
D
dvdjs
Guest
I am not sure how you manages to get a comment on the matter from the “Orthodox Church” let alone what it means that it says that “there is no use for” some Church or another.It is the official attitude of the Orthodox Church that there is no use for the “Byzantine Catholics”,
The MP did at long last agree with a key phrase n the Balamand statment signed some decades ago regarding Greek Catholics’s right to exist. I do not attach any value to the word of the MP - he will do as the Russian state tells him. But it is nice to hear even disingenuous words regarding my right my religious practice. It was odd to know that there were people, in our time, who were unclear on that concept and would would even act on such views with violence.
Do you support the right to exist of Byzantine Catholic Churches?
D
dvdjs
Guest
Nice to put your cards on the table.First of all, Russia was found in Ukraine and has right to seize it,
The Russian state is handicapped, not empowered, by its officially allowed version of its own history. It is not at all clear that the world woudl lift a finger to defend Ukraine from massive Russian aggression - it did no move against USSR in hungary, Czechoslovakia, etc. - but does any nation outside of Russia share the view that Russia has a right to seize Ukraine?
D
dvdjs
Guest
You do realize what the numbers are in Russia don’t you?Catholic church attendance is lower now than it was 60 years ago. In the 1950’s weekly church attendance for American Catholics was at about 75%. Today, it is about 23%.
D
dvdjs
Guest
LOL. Thanks for playing.… Obama who almost forbade Americans to wish each others Marry Christmas.
A
AlNg
Guest
Yes. In Russia, hundreds of churches are being rebuilt and restored. And contrary to the US public school system, in Russia, religious education is taught in the public schools.You do realize what the numbers are in Russia don’t you?
D
dvdjs
Guest
If you know what the church attendance rates are in Russia, why do you not admit to them, rather than deflecting with numbers about church buildings?Yes. In Russia, …
Last edited:
D
dvdjs
Guest
The Pope sent legates to Constantinople to protest the EP sanctioned desecration of the Blessed Sacrament in Latin churches with the territory of the EP. No over-reaching there.The Church of Rome caused the Schism by demanding Universal Jurisdiction
A
AlNg
Guest
It is not just church buildings, it is the whole education system. Do you really think that the US public schools are superior where you cannot sing any Christmas carols. You can’t have a Christmas tree in a public school. You can’t say Merry Christmas. And in American schools children are being brainwashed into thinking that SS marriage is normal. Children have to read books where little Johnny and little Mary are brought up by two SS married men or two SS married women. Contrast that with Russia, where religious education is taught in public schools. Why is that so bad. I don’t understand why some American Catholics hate Russia and call it a fascist country as we have seen on this thread. There was a Christmas tree lighting in the local community here in California, but guess what. They couldn’t call it a Christmas tree. It was a holiday tree. And during the whole celebration with music, lights and all, they could not mention once the word Christmas. OK, if that is the way you want it to be in the USA, then good luck to you and have a Happy Holiday.If you know what the church attendance rates are in Russia, why do you not admit to them, rather than deflecting with numbers about church buildings?
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.