On this rock I build My Church

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When it comes down to it, @setarcos, what you are going to have to deal with is that your view of the Christian Faith is very different from the early Church. This is expressed well by the existence of the four ancient Christian communions that have retained continuity with the apostolic Church. See the chart again:

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That’s the Catholic Church, The Assyrian Church of the East, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Oriental Orthodox communion.

Despite slight differences, and even despite different understandings of Petrine/Roman primacy, all agree there is a visible structure to the Church, based in the Apostles and centered on the Eucharist. Do you believe in Apostolic Succession? Do you believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist? These are universally agreed upon by all these ancient communions.

It’s something to think about!
 
Political maneuvering in order to consolidate a power base is all it was.
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This is an absolutely ridiculous theory. Even the most vehemently anti-Roman Orthodox believe Peter was martyred in Rome!!!

What, do you think Ignatius of Antioch in AD 110 had something political to gain (on his way to his own martyrdom!) when he mentioned Peter’s residency in Rome?

Goodness. Fanciful history indeed!
 
A kingdom divided against itself will not stand. We are all one in christ if the church now does not teach that I do not agree with it. But we can all be saved despite our different beliefs
 
I think the extra-biblical evidence for Peter in Rome is clear enough, and I think you have to be very ideologically biased to try to dismiss it.

That said, there very well could be a biblical allusion to Peter in Rome, when, in his epistle, he says he is writing from “Babylon”:
“The Church here in Babylon, united with you by God’s election, sends you her greeting, and so does my son, Mark” (1 Pet. 5:13)
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Babylon was a code word for Rome in other ancient writings, like 4 Esdras 3:1. Besides, this goes along well with the testimony quoted above (Clement’s fragment regarding Mark’s gospel), which notes both being in Rome together (as 1 Peter also indicates).
 
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I didn’t know Peter wrote that I thought Paul did. I bet babylon does refer to rome.
 
Some think it could refer to Jerusalem, which is why I’m not placing a bet on this verse alone. But taken with the other evidence, Peter was most probably in Rome — even if this verse itself is not referring to Rome. However, like I noted, this verse parallels other extra-biblical evidence that explicitly talk about Peter and Mark together in Rome. So there’s a good case for it!
 
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truthlovingorthodox said:
So I believe all churches can know the full truth and find life but I am willing to convert to prove that and/or to be proven wrong.
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I think that part of the problem you have, as many, is that you view Christ’s Founded Church as a franchise where anyone can erect a “church of Christ.”

Here’s how Jesus stated it:
15 When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep… 22 Jesus saith to him: …follow thou me. (St. John 21)
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Jesus is not the Rock on which He Will Build His Church; if this were so it would have been redundant for Jesus to change Simon’s name to Rock/Cephas/Kephas only to say: ‘Simon, you are Peter/Rock/Cephas/Kephas and on Me, the Real Rock, I Will Build My Church.’

I would also be redundant (severe, vindictive, and debasing) to demand more responsibility from Peter because he denied Jesus three times before the rooster crowed.
truthlovingorthodox said:
If I convert to the Catholic Church would people be offended if I train as a monk in the Coptic church
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That’s confusing; it’s like thinking: ‘I’ll believe, just in case there is a God.’

If you want to serve God in the Catholic Church then you must learn what being Catholic means; if you want to serve God in the Coptic church, you must learn what it means to serve as a Coptic monk.

So slow down and search yourself (the reason/s why you are on a quest to Christ) and learn all you can about the Church; then put yourself into prayer–as the Holy Spirit to Guide you to the Truth (Jesus) that you seek; yet, be ready to accept His Guidance!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Thankyou friend 🙂

Even if I am convinced of the teachings I stumble now because I think I can stumble other christians. Pray for me. And I should pray more about it
 
😂 It is funny if you are trying to paint a humourous image. But it is true you are supported by scripture and the trust of Jesus to preserve the church if you are true
 
Jesus said not to try to correct others but take the plank out first to be able to help… therefore He wouldn’t like mere arguing … if we can’t help we should not judge
Paul said he did not come in wisdom of men but demonstration of the Spirit
 
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truthlovingorthodox said:
😂 It is funny if you are trying to paint a humourous image. But it is true you are supported by scripture and the trust of Jesus to preserve the church if you are true
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Our Authority, that we follow is often described as a 3 legged stool

3 legs of authority
  • Scripture (Gods word)
  • Tradition (sacred)
  • the consistent ongoing teaching of the Magisterium
 
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We should pray for the work of the Spirit as Jesus said if you say to this mountain move it will move. If we are really of the truth. To open people eye
 
truthlovingorthodox said:
You see I am asking God to reveal the truth and yet I have no absolute proof that the catholic church is true and if I do believe I doubt it because I can not yet know vatican 2 is true and my conscience will not let me accept it but I have absolute proof Jesus is God and my conscience does not reprove me.
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The issue of “conscience” and “true” and “exploring” is that these are just topics that are applied to a quest/s and are subject to well… subjectivity. Which means that you only get out what you put into it.

God will not Reveal the Truth past the Revelation of the Truth.

Jesus Founded one Church; He attested that He would remain with her till the end of times and He attested that He would Send the other Paraclete to Abide with and in the Church.

Apostolic Succession is necessary to be part of Christ’s Founded Church; but Succession means Abiding in and with Christ’s Body: the Church. When any Bishop/Priest/Believer separates from the Body of Christ, the Church is not fully represented as Christ is not Divided.

Accepting only certain Apostolic Teaching while rejecting others also limits the reality of being/belonging to Christ’s Church.

So your search should include not just what you perceive/conceive is the sign/s of the Truth but what Apostolic Teaching demonstrates as Truth:
25 That there might be no schism in the body; but the members might be mutually careful one for another. 26 And if one member suffer any thing, all the members suffer with it; or if one member glory, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members of member. 28 And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors; after that miracles; then the graces of healing, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all doctors? 30 Are all workers of miracles? Have all the grace of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? (1 Corinthians 12)
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Freedom to believe as we will is nothing new; Eve decided to believe the serpent rather than God, and, as St. James, tells us, ‘you believe in God, good–however, demons also believe and tremble!’ (paraphrased)

So the challenge is not that God Reveals Himself to us; the challenge is that we seek Him as He Has Revealed Himself!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
and christ has revealed His commandment not to put a stumbling block before others but refrain from judging unless you can help. I guess I am forced to concede that
 
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truthlovingorthodox said:
We are not perfect but I believe we doing a good job
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As I suggested,

given no one is perfect, agreed,

to test one’s beliefs with scripture and sacred Tradition,

On those points, Scripture, & sacred Tradition, are Coptics in communion with Peter and all those in complete communion with Peter?
 
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