On this rock I build My Church

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Only God knows if they have been witnessed to with power and know the truth absolutely so we should not judge and God knows if He accepts them. Why should we hinder their journey of following Jesus and His commandments
 
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but he is not infallible.
I think that you misunderstand the term.

When St. Peter stood up and demanded that they must no obey men but God, was he not making an infallible pronouncement?

When the issue of the Gentiles entering the Body, did He not command that they be accepted and Baptized into the Body? That was infallible.

When St. Paul’s Teachings became a source of contention and St. Peter stated that St. Paul’s Teachings (Writings) were Scriptures, were he not making an infallible pronouncement?

Yet, St. Peter as the others were still human and subject to failure and confusion… at first the Church Taught the immediacy of Christ’s Parousia… later, as the Truth was further Unfolded, they understood that they did not need to concern themselves with the day and time but how the Lord would find them!

Infallibility does not mean everything that is thought or said is an infallible statement; it means that that which is Taught, through the Holy Spirit’s Guidance, is infallible Teaching.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Infallibility does not mean everything that is thought or said is an infallible statement; it means that that which is Taught, through the Holy Spirit’s Guidance, is infallible Teaching.
 
Infallibility does not mean everything that is thought or said is an infallible statement; it means that that which is Taught, through the Holy Spirit’s Guidance, is infallible Teaching.
I suppose he could say something and then decide it was not from the Holy Spirit. That which is from the Holy Spirit I suppose he will not doubt and all the church will agree
 
Do you think if the Popes makes mistakes Jesus will leave the Catholic Church his Bride,

2 Timothy 2:13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful—

for he cannot deny himself.
 
No. He will make sure the pope is corrected or a new pope is given or people will teach the truth and the new pope will teach it too
 
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What made Peter a great apostle was that he is us.
I think that you’ve missed the boat!

Get it?

What made Simon a great apostle was what he gave Jesus. Even and in spite of his human failures, it was Simon Peter who sought Jesus out with all of his heart; it was he who step on it every single time; it was he whom Jesus chose to lead His Church.

We can neither enhance nor lower St. Peter’s status in God’s Salvific Plan. We can only accept that Jesus Selected him to guide and unite the rest of His Followers:
31 And the Lord said: Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren. (St. Luke 22)
15 When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep. (St. John 21)
Given that Jesus chose to separate him from the rest, it is reasonable that St. Peter’s relevancy does not depend upon twenty-first century analysis of what took place at the inception of the Church.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
No, more like within 50 years. But note we don’t even have a lot of 1st and 2nd century documents discussing Peter’s Roman residency precisely because we don’t have a lot of 1st and 2nd century Christian documents, to begin with!
Where did you get this estimate of 50 years? The earliest reference associated with Peter in Rome I have been able to find has been around 170 to 180 C.E. in a letter from a Christian deacon named Gaius.
On the contrary, the early Church was awash in early Christian writings, just not officially sanctioned. This was the period of the Church Fathers and nothing is offered from them as to evidential reasoning, simply tradition speculation.
Anyway, around AD 110, Ignatius of Antioch (who may have known Peter, or at least Peter’s successor in Antioch, since he succeeded him in Antioch) addresses the Romans: “Not as Peter and Paul did, do I command you. They were apostles, and I am a convict” (Letter to the Romans 4:3).
You must realize that both Peter and Paul, Paul especially, wrote many letters to various Church’s as a way of teaching them without being able to visit them. This was the custom of the New Testament Church. This is most likely what St. Ignatius was referencing, Pauls and Peters apostolic letters. St. Antioch is addressing the Roman church in a letter in the context of Peter and Pauls commands in letters. There is a direct correlation. Incidentally why would St. Antioch have to point out he was not commanding the Roman Church as Peter and Paul did? This would have been a curious thing to say if both he and the Roman Church were aware that the Roman Church was the seat and head of all the Christian Church’s in authority? And why address the Church in Rome as…“to the church that is in charge of affairs in Roman quarters…” if that Church was the agreed upon seat of authority in charge of all Christian quarters?
The historical testimony for Peter in Rome is re-emphasized by the fact there are no competing traditions.
There are no competing traditions by this time because there was no early traditions of Peter founding the Roman Church to begin with. This was new. This was probably considered at the time inconsequential speculation unimportant to more pressing matters until such time as some saw fit to use Peter for their own gain.
Not at all. Before Constantine, Christianity was largely underground. The primacy of Rome was hardly due to imperial meddling.
You really need to brush up on your early Christian history. The early Christian Church was in such turmoil amongst itself with competing factions that when Constantine got involved it was mainly to keep these contentious bickering’s from endangering the peace of his empire.
Its not why did Paul go to Rome and maybe Peter, its why make Rome the seat of all Christian Authority? Why not keep it in the place where Christianity was born?
 
very true,Judith 5:17 “As long as they did not sin against their God they prospered, for the God who hates iniquity is with them. 18 But when they departed from the way he had prescribed for them, they were utterly defeated in many battles and were led away captive to a foreign land. The temple of their God was razed to the ground, and their towns were occupied by their enemies. But we dont leave his true Church on Earth which Jesus established

we cannot judge but discern
what the protestants are doing unit or division 1 John 2:22-23 They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us; but that they may be manifest, that they are not all of us.

1 Corinthians 11:19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognize


Philippians 1:9 And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment,

1 Corinthians12 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
 
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Do you not understand that if a tree falls in the forest it makes noise even if there’s none to write it down?

Jesus: Simon, you are Cephas/Kephas/Rock
Jesus: Simon on that rock I will build my Church.

Jesus: Simon, when you turn back to Me, gather the others around you.
Jesus: Simon, do you love Me more than these? Feed my Lamb; feed my Lamb; feed my Sheep!

Jesus Validates His Delegation!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Good one! Not only do I miss my boat often, I’m also a terrible fisherman.
it was Simon Peter who sought Jesus out with all of his heart
A good point and an example of who we are. Yes Simon Peter had his human failures and I’m sure Simon Peter sought Jesus out with what he thought was his whole heart, yet he didn’t in his denial of Jesus and Jesus uses Peter to speak to us about our own good intentions. We may tell ourselves we seek Jesus wholeheartedly, but do we? Its a constant battle…a never ending journey until his return. I suspect Jesus singled Peter out from the rest of the apostles in those verses you quoted because Jesus was speaking directly to all of us. Peter is everyman. Peter is singled out because Peter denied Jesus and is being used as hope and inspiration for us all. God is wise beyond measure!!
 
Yes, we all are subject to the fallibility of the flesh; how we respond to failure makes the difference: do we turn back to God and give up our ills or do we embrace the ill and reject God?

Prayer and humble obedience to the Holy Spirit is the key!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Your wrong…if God weren’t around to sustain the noise, none would be made. You always need a witness. Even when trees fall in a forest or the smallest virus perishes.
As far as building a Church upon Peter. I look at it this way. The solidity upon which Jesus Church is to be built must of necessity be infallible. Peter is fallible. Therefore Peter while being a foundation stone upon which the Church is built up, he is one among the other Pillars of the Church, all who firmly anchor their stones upon the revelatory truth which is what Jesus delivered to mankind.
 
Here’s the beauty of being a Christian: Christ has already set the bar: ‘if your justice is not greater than the Pharisees and masters of the Law, you cannot be My disciples.’ (paraphrased)

So yes, it is not about being a stumbling stone but about edifying the Body!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
It wasn’t the flesh that brought death into the world. It was the mind. The thinking being whose foundation isn’t found in flesh but in spirit. Yes flesh became corrupted but this corruption was a consequence not a source of corruption.
 
Except we are told most directly by Christ not to be a stumbling stone for anyone.
 
When we understand that the Church is the Body of Christ, we cannot but want to be part of the Body.

Yet, Salvation is not about legalism (the reason why the religious Jews rejected Jesus and were chastised by Jesus); God’s Mercy and Justice is way above our ways and understanding. Still, this does not mean that I can reject God’s Salvific Plan and somehow manage to “save” myself or compel God to Save me, outside of Christ!

So we must preach Christ to all, specially to our brethren Believers. But preaching is not just quoting Scriptures… it is mostly about sharing Christ!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Exactly!

But we are to give reason for our Hope through Love and patience.

The first step is to go back to the Greatest Commandment–which brings us to the second: Love God and Love neighbor as self!

When we are able to do this we can instruct and pray others into the Faith: Truth: Jesus!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
What I am trying to say is that we must take all of God’s Revelation (the Written and Oral Teachings) into account when we view/study Sacred Scriptures and specially when we make profession of Faith.

While it is true that God has made Himself Known through nature (Creation), we still need the Holy Spirit to Unfold God’s Revelation:
12 I have yet many things to say to you: but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you. 14 He shall glorify me; because he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it to you. 15 All things whatsoever the Father hath, are mine. Therefore I said, that he shall receive of mine, and shew it to you. (St. John 16)
So God has Revealed Himself through Creation but He has not limited His Revelation to only Creation; further, through His direct Divine intervention He Calls us to Salvation and even Sacrifices Himself (the Incarnate Word) to breach the gap between man and God!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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