On this rock I build My Church

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and christ has revealed His commandment not to put a stumbling block before others but refrain from judging unless you can help. I guess I am forced to concede that I don’t know if salvation is out of the church but that does not mean it is not. You should join the church if it is right but we should not judge and hinder it and we can not say whether God judges for not converting
 
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But if communion is only given in 1 or more true churches how do you say people who are invincibly ignorant can be saved or that invincibly ignorant unbaptised people are saved when the Lord said unless you are born of water and the Spirit you can not enter the kingdom of God Assuredly.
What the Church is saying is that if people are ignorant of God’s Will through the plagues Satan uses to tie and bind them and if they seek wholeheartedly Jesus Christ as their Savior, the Holy Spirit, being able to search their innermost being, can touch their spirit and Guide them to Salvation.

Yet, once a person comes to Know God and willfully rejects His Revelation, that person is rejecting God’s Salvific Plan:
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. (St. Matthew 7)
Maran atha!

Angel
 
No I mean for those who heard I thought the church still considers some invincibly ignorant even if they have heard
Here’s a picture of what the Church means:
24 For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for? 25 But if we hope for that which we see not, we wait for it with patience. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity. For we know not what we should pray for as we ought; but the Spirit himself asketh for us with unspeakable groanings. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts, knoweth what the Spirit desireth; because he asketh for the saints according to God. 28 And we know that to them that love God, all things work together unto good, to such as, according to his purpose, are called to be saints.
29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son; that he might be the firstborn amongst many brethren. 30 And whom he predestinated, them he also called. And whom he called, them he also justified. And whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who is against us?
(Romans 8)
While it is true that Jesus Delegated His Authority to the Church, the Church remains the Body of Christ, not the Head–she accepts that it is God Alone Who Saves or Rejects man.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
True if one knows and is convinced of the truth. But if they have some doubt because they think they are causing division and stumbling block we do not excuse or judge. We pray for them to be converted and to be convinced because they should maybe or have to do so
 
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All creation witnesses to a God. Its sound has gone through all the earth. He has a spirit he is not an animal. All know God. Romans says “Although they knew God they did not glorify Him as God”.
Do you realize that you are saying that the Incarnation of the Word was superfluous?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I will no longer preach protestantism as a certainty though I believe it may very well be unless I am fully convinced. I guess I am still strictly orthodox.
 
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I will answer you perhaps another day I have to have time and energy to think about it. I may open a new thread another day
 
Matthew 16:16-18 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.

18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any of the beasts of the earth which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman: Why hath God commanded you, that you should not eat of every tree of paradise?

2 And the woman answered him, saying: Of the fruit of the trees that are in paradise we do eat:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of paradise, God hath commanded us that we should not eat; and that we should not touch it, lest perhaps we die.

4 And the serpent said to the woman: No, you shall not die the death.

Acts 13:10 Said: O full of all guile, and of all deceit, child of the devil, enemy of all justice, thou ceasest not to pervert the right ways of the Lord.

satan always does his duty how the very words of Jesus has been twisted, Jesus is very clear to call Peter the Rock,
 
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I am sure that greatest sin is causing division.
These six things the Lord hates one who causes discord among brethren
That is if he wants to and I believe it is satan.
I am convinced Jesus
 
Can I be certain I can find the truth of the church without asking and going on forums?
The Holy Spirit can use these forums to Guide you; Satan can use them to bring more confusion into your life/mind.

How you search for God is what will make the difference… remember the Greatest Commandment, and the second?

If you seek God, He will Reveal Himself to you; however, you must put ego/self aside (this includes all preconceptions) and as St. Paul admonished:
17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In all things give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you all. 19 Extinguish not the spirit. 20 Despise not prophecies. 21 But prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 From all appearance of evil refrain yourselves. 23 And may the God of peace himself sanctify you in all things; that your whole spirit, and soul, and body, may be preserved blameless in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5)
Apostolic Teaching is the bar for our test.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I change my mind.
I am sure that greatest sin is causing division.
These six things the Lord hates one who causes discord among brethren
That is if he wants to and I believe it is satan.
I am convinced Jesus accepts them all. It is not for us to judge. If He judges them He can bring them to His church.
 
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The problem is unity vs. disunity; obedience vs. complacency.

Which Church has been following Apostolic Teaching?

Which Church has been content with local functions and serving a special “people?”

Which Church has embraced Christ’s Great Commission: 'go to the whole world Preaching, Teaching, and Baptizing in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

Those are clues to aide you in your quest.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
sure your right,but who allow satan to do so it is people

Jeremiah 3:15 “‘And I will give you shepherds (Popes) after my own heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.

The Catholic Church follows and GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT and JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF THROUGH HIS TRUE CHURCH AND THE POPE who stands in the person of Christ. Matthew 16:16-18 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. A solid promise of Jesus. Psalm 12:6 The promises of the Lord are promises that are pure, silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times.
 
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We can’t judge them because we may be responsible for making them not join the church sooner and others may have died already or harder to win because we are not strong witness. So God may absolve even all them for our sake. But non christians protestants orthodox and catholic have all witnessed to them so they have an option. We would be stronger witness if we do not fight one another and as I said they may all be saved because we are not strong witness now for our sake.
 
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I know that verse francis. They are a blessing but they are not infallible
 
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The apostles today are certainly not as qualified as the ancient apostles
I fully concur with this thought.

However, even from Scriptures we find the Unfolding of the Church (Teaching, Succession, Doctrine, Dogma, Practice). Simply referring to Scriptures as the sole source of God’s Revelation is a principle that not even Scriptures have Taught.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
god is the only judge, Ep 6:12 For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places

.we cannot judge but discern what the protestants are doing unit or division 1 John 2:22-23 They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us; but that they may be manifest, that they are not all of us.

1 Corinthians 11:19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognize
 
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Only God knows if they have been witnessed to with power and know the truth absolutely so we should not judge
 
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