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Beaver
Guest
Works are the graces of the Lord. Grace must not be hoarded, but given away. In that giving we perform works, so works are the grace of the Lord not ours.
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Exporter
Guest
The original questions was ,“Furthermore, since according to the “Once Saved, always saved” doctrine we cannot ever lose our salvation no matter what we do–then why would believers in OSAS care if people are Catholic? After all, if all it takes is accepting Jesus, and nothing at all can separate us from God once we have done that–then it really does not matter what we choose to follow–correct?”
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c0achmcguirk
Guest
I’m not a believer in OSAS, but in Perseverance of the Saints. However, since no OSAS adherant is answering your question, I will try to give the OSAS reply. I used to believe in OSAS, by the way.
The reason why you shouldn’t be Catholic, is because Rome has a false Gospel that is man-centered and focused on works and meriting salvation with deeds (along with faith, of course). Because this isn’t the true Gospel, and one with this mindset may boast in their works since it is their contribution to their salvation (Eph 2:8-10), this isn’t a true faith in Jesus and His Gospel. Putting your faith in a false Gospel jeopardizes your soul.
Now, that being said, I join you in attacking the false belief in OSAS. Hopefully my answer will help you understand what OSAS people believe.
God bless,
c0ach
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c0achmcguirk
Guest
Church Militant:
cin.org/users/james/files/loss.htm
Look at the Bible and how often predestination is mentioned:
biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=predestined&x=0&y=0
I don’t know if you understand the Catholic position on predestination yet, much less the Scriptural basis for it. Keep studying.
God bless,
c0ach
Tell that to Jimmy Akin, Augustine, and Aquinas, all believers and adamant defenders of predestination.
cin.org/users/james/files/loss.htm
Look at the Bible and how often predestination is mentioned:
biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=predestined&x=0&y=0
I don’t know if you understand the Catholic position on predestination yet, much less the Scriptural basis for it. Keep studying.
God bless,
c0ach
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Mickey
Guest
Oh way to go coach! Another lovely Catholic basher. Where do you people come from anyway? You said that with such class and style. Gimme a break! It must be lent— because the demons are prowling!!!
:banghead: :bigyikes:
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neophyte
Guest
Mickey,Oh way to go coach! Another lovely Catholic basher. Where do you people come from anyway? You said that with such class and style. Gimme a break! It must be lent— because the demons are prowling!!!
I think that c0ach posted that as an explanation of what someone else might say if he were here, not as a representation of his own thought.
c0ach, in return we’d tell that person that he didn’t understand Catholic teaching.
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Curious
Guest
living in fear of going to hell and not have any assurance of salvation = misery
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ISABUS
Guest
"It was a joy to me, Lord, in the midst of my struggles, to feel that in growing to my own fulfilment I was increasing your hold on me, to surrender myself to your providence. And now that I have discovered the joy of turning every increase into a way of making–or allowing–your presence to grow within me, I beg of you: bring me to a serene acceptance of that final phase of communion with you in which I shall attain to possession of you by diminishing within you.
“Now that I have learnt to see you as he who is ‘more me than myself’, grant that when my hour has come I may recognize you under the appearances of every alien or hostile power that seems bent on destroying or dispossessing me. When the erosions of age begin to leave their mark on my body, and still more on my mind; when the ills that must diminish my life or put an end to it strike me down from without or grow up from within me; when I reach that painful moment at which I suddenly realize that I am a sick man or that I am growing old; above all at that final moment when I feel I am losing hold on myself and becoming wholly passive in the hand of those great unknown forces which first formed me: at all these sombre moments grant me, Lord, to understand that it is you (provided my faith is strong enough) who are painfully separating the fibres of my being so as to penetrate to the very marrow of my substance and draw me into yourself.”
Hymn of the Universe by Father Teilhard de Chardin, Harper and Row Publishers, New York, 1965, Pensees, p.g. 103-104.
“Now that I have learnt to see you as he who is ‘more me than myself’, grant that when my hour has come I may recognize you under the appearances of every alien or hostile power that seems bent on destroying or dispossessing me. When the erosions of age begin to leave their mark on my body, and still more on my mind; when the ills that must diminish my life or put an end to it strike me down from without or grow up from within me; when I reach that painful moment at which I suddenly realize that I am a sick man or that I am growing old; above all at that final moment when I feel I am losing hold on myself and becoming wholly passive in the hand of those great unknown forces which first formed me: at all these sombre moments grant me, Lord, to understand that it is you (provided my faith is strong enough) who are painfully separating the fibres of my being so as to penetrate to the very marrow of my substance and draw me into yourself.”
Hymn of the Universe by Father Teilhard de Chardin, Harper and Row Publishers, New York, 1965, Pensees, p.g. 103-104.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Thanks Mp. You too! I’ve kept an eye on some of your posts over time and read them with interest.
Pax vobiscum,
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Church_Militant
Guest
Just because someone else believes something doesn’t mean that I have to. If man is predestined then he has no free will and that makes it impossible for man to actually love God. That whole idea is contrary to the very nature of God, who calls us to choose to take up our cross daily and follow Him.Tell that to Jimmy Akin, Augustine, and Aquinas, all believers and adamant defenders of predestination.
cin.org/users/james/files/loss.htm
Look at the Bible and how often predestination is mentioned:
biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=predestined&x=0&y=0
I don’t know if you understand the Catholic position on predestination yet, much less the Scriptural basis for it. Keep studying.
God bless,
c0ach
All men are predestined to be CALLED to God…
Pax vobiscum, :twocents:
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Church_Militant
Guest
False Gospel? Who says? You? Lemme just hand you a few NT passages that will refute your false allegation.
We are saved by grace that shows itself by our love in action whan we
do those things that Jesus said would let our light so shine before men
that they may see our good works and glorify the Father in heaven. (Oh
SNAP! You forgot about that passage of the NT didn’t you? Poor
preacher-man…) Here: Look at this and a couple more verses that you
apparently haven’t noticed in that Bible of yours…
Matthew 5:16 So let your light shine before men, that they may see your
good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
2nd Peter 1:10-11 Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good
works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these
things, you shall not sin at any time. 11 For so an entrance shall be
ministered to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord
and Saviour Jesus Christ
1st Peter 2:12 Having your conversation good among the Gentiles: that
whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by the good
works, which they shall behold in you, glorify God in the day of
visitation.
Pax vobiscum,
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Lorarose
Guest
Adopting personal desire as truth = blissful ignorance
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mtr01
Guest
While it is true, c0ach, the the Catholic Church teaches predestination, it is definitely at odds with Calvin’s views. Correct me if I’m wrong (Calvinist theology is not a strong suit of mine), but the Calvinist view is that predistination is accomplished by God alone. If this is correct, then it is considered a heretical doctrine by the Catholic Church.Tell that to Jimmy Akin, Augustine, and Aquinas, all believers and adamant defenders of predestination.
cin.org/users/james/files/loss.htm
Look at the Bible and how often predestination is mentioned:
biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=predestined&x=0&y=0
I don’t know if you understand the Catholic position on predestination yet, much less the Scriptural basis for it. Keep studying.
God bless,
c0ach
Sorry if this post is too off-topic, if necessary a new thread could be started.
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Curious
Guest
The gift of salvation + never being sure if you’re going to heaven = no peace at all
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mtr01
Guest
I wanna play!
Curious:
The gift of salvation + a false assurance = a false sense of security
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Curious
Guest
The gift of salvation + fear you can lose it at any time = no security at all
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st_felicity
Guest
Romans 5:
Justified by faith (given by grace) + suffering afflictions (mulitplys endurance) x proven character = HOPE (not assurance)
But HOPE “does not disappoint” Therefore, don’t boast of assured salvation, but be confident in the Lord and His mercy.
Justified by faith (given by grace) + suffering afflictions (mulitplys endurance) x proven character = HOPE (not assurance)
But HOPE “does not disappoint” Therefore, don’t boast of assured salvation, but be confident in the Lord and His mercy.
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st_felicity
Guest
As you can see–I don’t “do” math…but I know THAT formula works…
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geezerbob
Guest
Jesus = Judge of all men.
To say “I am saved” = I am judging myself = I am Jesus = BLASPHEMY!
To say “I am saved” = I am judging myself = I am Jesus = BLASPHEMY!
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TPJCatholic
Guest
Very few response to my actual questions.
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