One brave women who said NO to Muhammed.

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Muslim_Woman said:
Salaam/peace

once Prophet (p) was angry with his wives ; he went to mosque & spent few nights there . He did not beat any of his wives . If all married men follow this example , world will become almost like heaven for all married women.

SHOCKING Facts about WOMEN’ ABUSE in the ‘civilized’ West

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN IN THE UNITED STATES

MURDER : :

Every day four women die in this country as a result of domestic violence, the euphemism for murders and assaults by husbands and boyfriends.

That’s approximately 1,400 women a year, according to the FBI. The number of women who have been murdered by their intimate partners is greater than the number of soldiers killed in the Vietnam War.

sciforums.com/SHOCKING-Facts-about-WOMEN-ABUSE-in-the-civilized-West-t-16365.html
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ok, muslim woman i have read this post as you have asked me to.

and so what is your point?

we are discussing religion not culture. there are muslims in the west so are you trying to make them look bad?

what?

there are people from all over the world on this forum. these debates have always been about religion, not which culture is the best.

i think you might be surprised by how many americans, canadians and europeans are disgusted by all the sex, greed and violence we see in the media. i suspect we both have that in common. i personally see how western media makes fun of anyone that believes in God. that is so offensive to me and i am sure to you as well. we have a lot more in common than you think.
 
Salaam/peace
Sister_Amy said:
… Sam … He’s not Christian, or a Muslim, but he pretends to be one (or the other.)
…And a munafiq is someone who will be punished in the deepest level of hell. .
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my advice / request to Sam : We have very limited time in this world --don’t waste it like you are doing now. If you are in a confusion which religion is the truth , then take your time to study , pray & ask God to help you in finding the truth .

To find out the truth , you don’t need to spread hatred against Islam & Prophet Muhammed (p) . If Jesus (p) is your God , then listen to him & try to love your enemies. Stop spreading lies & hatred , pl.

Take a short break from the forum & ask God sincerely to help you.
 
Muslim_Woman said:
Salaam/peace

Women In Islam Versus Women In The Judaeo-Christian

Tradition:

**The Myth & The Reality **

al-islam.org/women_islam_juchr/
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the author clearly does not have any understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches.

you will find that our discussions will be more fruitful if you take the time to learn what we TRULY believe.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

i have tried to do that with your faith, but it is difficult because you have numerous clerics with different views on the quran’s interpretations.

i read the bit about female education and had to laugh. ask anyone who has been to Catholic school and they will tell you how high we value education for both sexes.
 
Sam_777 said:
And she told him “I seek refuge with Allah from you”.
What a brave women she was 👍, it seems she let her brain works and avoided Muhammed’s polygamy.

I think Muslims women nowadays should follow her steps and say no to their husbands:takethat: when they want to take another wives.

**Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 63, Number 182: **
“We went out with the Prophet to a garden called Ash-Shaut till we reached two walls between which we sat down. The Prophet said, “Sit here,” and went in (the garden). The Jauniyya (a lady from Bani Jaun) had been brought and lodged in a house in a date-palm garden in the home of Umaima bint An-Nu’man bin Sharahil, and her wet nurse was with her. When the Prophet entered upon her, he said to her, “Give me yourself (in marriage) as a gift.” She said, “Can a princess give herself in marriage to an ordinary man?” The Prophet raised his hand to pat her so that she might become tranquil. She said, “I seek refuge with Allah from you.” He said, "You have sought refuge with One Who gives refuge. Then the Prophet came out to us and said, "O Abu Usaid! Give her two white linen dresses to wear and let her go back to her family.”

صحيح البخاري
خرجنا مع النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏حتى انطلقنا إلى ‏ ‏حائط ‏ ‏يقال له الشوط حتى انتهينا إلى ‏ ‏حائطين ‏ ‏فجلسنا بينهما فقال النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏اجلسوا ها هنا ودخل وقد أتي ‏ ‏بالجونية ‏ ‏فأنزلت في بيت في نخل في بيت ‏ ‏أميمة بنت النعمان بن شراحيل ‏ ‏ومعها دايتها حاضنة لها فلما دخل عليها النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏قال هبي نفسك لي قالت وهل تهب الملكة نفسها للسوقة قال فأهوى بيده يضع يده عليها لتسكن فقالت أعوذ بالله منك فقال ‏ ‏قد عذت بمعاذ ثم خرج علينا فقال يا ‏ ‏أبا أسيد ‏ ‏اكسها ‏ ‏رازقيتين ‏ ‏وألحقها بأهلها ‏
​

(E) (A)
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How rude of Mohammed! To just go in and tell her to marry him like that? I know people of his time did not do that! What a rude, rude man.
 
Muslim_Woman said:
Salaam/peace

If it’s an authentic hadith , it proves that Prophet (p) honoured the choice of the woman & did not force her to marry him . I feel pity for her , she missed the chance to be an honourable wife of a blessed Prophet of God Almighty .
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Dear Sister,

Off course Mohammad did not force her. Otherwise, you would have a rapist prophet. Muhammad was clever to maintain his image. Raping her would only yield several seconds of good feeling, but at the cost that there would be no Islam today. Soo, the hadith logically is authentic. That hadith indeed saved Mohammad image for being a prophet not a rapist. You should thank Sam, rather than arguing the authenticity of the hadith he brought out.
 
Muslim_Woman said:
Salaam/peace

my advice / request to Sam : We have very limited time in this world --don’t waste it like you are doing now. If you are in a confusion which religion is the truth , then take your time to study , pray & ask God to help you in finding the truth .

To find out the truth , you don’t need to spread hatred against Islam & Prophet Muhammed (p) . If Jesus (p) is your God , then listen to him & try to love your enemies. Stop spreading lies & hatred , pl.

Take a short break from the forum & ask God sincerely to help you.
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You are wrong, Sister. Sam has found the truth. He is following the true light by now. The problem is, your society forbid him to move away. Thanks for your advice to him to pray. He did, and God has replied him and called him to the correct pathway.
 
jen_fla said:
the author clearly does not have any understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches.

you will find that our discussions will be more fruitful if you take the time to learn what we TRULY believe.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

i have tried to do that with your faith, but it is difficult because you have numerous clerics with different views on the quran’s interpretations.

i read the bit about female education and had to laugh. ask anyone who has been to Catholic school and they will tell you how high we value education for both sexes.
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It was not until in recent times, Muslims have had this urgency to address and retaliate to claims of oppressed women in Islam. So they naturally felt the need to show and teach the world Islam has always respected women.

See, this is where the problem lies. If it was indeed such a case, you wouldn’t be reading how Muslim women are repeatedly being abused daily all around the globe. Acid thrown in their faces for being too neighbourly, in-laws throwing kerosene on their daughter-in-laws and lighting them up like a bonfire, because they felt they needed to show them who’s the boss or men using them as punching bags if their day at work didn’t turn out well for them. This has been going on since the dawn of Islam.

There is however, one thing that i have stood up for in the past and i still do; the hijab is not a symbol of oppression. The burkha is. Dressing up modestly is a good thing. But covering yourself up from head to toe in searing heat is too much. It simply shows how paranoid some Muslim men really are.
 
Nickkname said:
How rude of Mohammed! To just go in and tell her to marry him like that? I know people of his time did not do that! What a rude, rude man.
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You are rude man. I am sure you are not any christian, or may be one in disguise. Anyhow you are very rude christian if you are a christian and a very rude Catholic too.

** There was no telling to marry. She was married to him. But perhaps she did not like to marry him or did not know him. Or she made a mistake by uttering some wrong words. She was immediately returned to her parents. No harm to anybody except christianity.**
 
planten said:
You are rude man. I am sure you are not any christian, or may be one in disguise. Anyhow you are very rude christian if you are a christian and a very rude Catholic too.

** There was no telling to marry. She was married to him. But perhaps she did not like to marry him or did not know him. Or she made a mistake by uttering some wrong words. She was immediately returned to her parents. No harm to anybody except christianity.**
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What do you mean by writing “No harm to anybody except christianity”?
 
cathopologist said:
It was not until in recent times, Muslims have had this urgency to address and retaliate to claims of oppressed women in Islam. So they naturally felt the need to show and teach the world Islam has always respected women.

See, this is where the problem lies. If it was indeed such a case, you wouldn’t be reading how Muslim women are repeatedly being abused daily all around the globe. Acid thrown in their faces for being too neighbourly, in-laws throwing kerosene on their daughter-in-laws and lighting them up like a bonfire, because they felt they needed to show them who’s the boss or men using them as punching bags if their day at work didn’t turn out well for them. This has been going on since the dawn of Islam.

There is however, one thing that i have stood up for in the past and i still do; the hijab is not a symbol of oppression. The burkha is. Dressing up modestly is a good thing. But covering yourself up from head to toe in searing heat is too much. It simply shows how paranoid some Muslim men really are.
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i agree with you on every point. also you see the women in all black and then men are walking around in the heat wearing white. i heard some saudi defend this by saying that the white is more transparent and you could possibly see the woman’s shape. guess they couldn’t come up with an opaque white fabric to help the women out with the harsh sun. nope just another way to let her know she’s not worth as much as a man.

while i don’t agree with ayaan hirsi ali’s choosing of atheism (although i can almost understand after what she grew up with) i have learned much from her writings as have i learned from many ex-muslims that are now able to speak freely.

"A woman in Islam is not competent and must always have a guardian. The responsibility of guardianship may pass from father to brother to uncle before a girl is married off, at which point she must answer to her husband. Marriage is typically arranged, with no choice given to the girl, and there is often an exchange of money in the process. Thus, under the religious rule of Islam, it is still common today that a woman’s rights are essentially sold to a man she may not know, and most likely does not love.

taken from here:

newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2007/08/my_view_of_islam.html

this is another informative interview with her from reason magazine:

reason.com/news/show/122457.html
 
jen_fla said:
i agree with you on every point. also you see the women in all black and then men are walking around in the heat wearing white. i heard some saudi defend this by saying that the white is more transparent and you could possibly see the woman’s shape. guess they couldn’t come up with an opaque white fabric to help the women out with the harsh sun. nope just another way to let her know she’s not worth as much as a man.

while i don’t agree with ayaan hirsi ali’s choosing of atheism (although i can almost understand after what she grew up with) i have learned much from her writings as have i learned from many ex-muslims that are now able to speak freely.

"A woman in Islam is not competent and must always have a guardian. The responsibility of guardianship may pass from father to brother to uncle before a girl is married off, at which point she must answer to her husband. Marriage is typically arranged, with no choice given to the girl, and there is often an exchange of money in the process. Thus, under the religious rule of Islam, it is still common today that a woman’s rights are essentially sold to a man she may not know, and most likely does not love.

taken from here:

newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2007/08/my_view_of_islam.html

this is another informative interview with her from reason magazine:

reason.com/news/show/122457.html
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Muslims have always misunderstood Christians whenever we speak up for the oppressed Muslim women. We speak up not because we want to convert the Muslim woman. We speak up because our conscience tells us it is the right thing to do - because we feel for them.

I would not call Ayaan Hirsi Ali a good role model. For Christians or non-Christians. She is vehement and totally anti-Muslim. That is what worries me. I do admire her for her courage, but i do not condone her hatred. Some things she says are true, but others sound like she has rabies. Perhaps it all that anger she has harboured all these years as a Muslimah. I truly don’t know and probably may not understand her. If she wants to be taken seriously on an academic level, then perhaps she needs to tone down abit.
 
I know Fr. Zakariya Butros has not been very popular here or anywhere with Muslims, but I thought of this video immediately upon opening this thread:

Muhammad and Allah’s revelations to him regarding women

The portion of the video that is pertinent to our discussion starts around 3:00 with the discussion of Muhammad’s sexual relations with Maria the Copt. This is in regard to sexual transgressions, but it doesn’t take much to see how this sort of “progressive revelation” might also shape Muhammad’s other approaches towards women in his religion.

I really don’t know what to say…the discussions and justifications surrounding this issue really make my skin crawl. The idea that there be legitimate disagreement over the degree of beating that is acceptable is really insane, isn’t it? Where is the “NO BEATING AT ALL, EVER” edict? That’s what I would like to see.

But it will not happen because Muhammad, in his infinite wisdom, has given his followers guidelines by which they may beat their wives in an acceptable manner, or to an acceptable degree. The same is true of conflict with other religions and a myriad of other topics: What was once seen as something of a “pure negative” has been imbued with shades of grey thanks to the prophet, who makes lawful the unlawful with the proclamations of Allah always on his side, available should Muhammad encounter a new situation in which he might actually have to correct his behaviors (as in the example in the above video).

I suppose you could not argue that he lacked confidence. It’s amazing what having an army of rabid followers willing to enslave and kill people to spread your message and guard your reputation can do for a guy’s self-esteem! 😛

And, yes, before anyone jumps on this point: I am aware that Muhammad himself spoke of being the mere slave of Allah (or something to that effect). Again, I say that this is a convenient sort of slavery; much, much more convenient than the type suffered by those actually enslaved under Muslim rule. In Muhammad’s slave/master relationship with Allah, Allah gives sanction to Muhammad’s every deed, even retroactively! I don’t know if Arabic has an idiom approximating the American “shoot first and ask questions later”, but it applies to Muhammad for sure…except without that pesky “ask questions” clause.
 
Fr. Zakariya Butros does a great job at dismissing Islamic claims of religious tolerance and his aim is not to convert, but to challenge myths brought forward by his Muslim opponents.
 
Sister_Amy said:
But in fact, Sam is something else. There’s a special word for what Sam is. If you ask him a question about himself, he’ll give you a cryptic answer–one for his “flesh” and one for his “soul.” Is this dichotomy indicative of multiple personality disorder or something of the like? I don’t think so. What Sam is is a man who is proclaiming to be a pious Muslim on the outside, while inwardly holding contempt for Islam. He’s not Christian, or a Muslim, but he pretends to be one (or the other.)

And the word for such a person is a munafiq.

And a munafiq is someone who will be punished in the deepest level of hell.

And you think I would rather marry him… ?

A munafiq–a liar, a traitor, a hypocrite–over the messenger of God? :eek:

I hope I made myself clear.
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Muslim_Woman said:
Stop spreading lies & hatred , pl.
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Yes indeed you both have made yourselves clear, I was thinking that there are still Muslims out there who have some moralistic principles, I guess I was wrong, you both have shown me your true Islamic face.
However, I challenge any Muslim here to come up with just one post about Islam where I have lied in, my posts are always accompanied by references, but I just remind myself with what Lord Jesus have said to his followers:

(Matthew 5:11):
“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.”
:bighanky:
 
cathopologist said:
Fr. Zakariya Butros does a great job at dismissing Islamic claims of religious tolerance and his aim is not to convert, but to challenge myths brought forward by his Muslim opponents.
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Indeed, and in language that they understand intuitively, using their own writings.

I am not a Copt, but I wholeheartedly believe that this man is a treasure for all of Christianity. May God protect him from his enemies, of which there are surely many.
 
dzheremi said:
Indeed, and in language that they understand intuitively, using their own writings.

I am not a Copt, but I wholeheartedly believe that this man is a treasure for all of Christianity. May God protect him from his enemies, of which there are surely many.
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Count my prayers in.
 
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