One of the men who threw the Idols (Pachamama) in the Tiber speaks!

[VanitasVanitatum]

I didn’t say either of those things.

 

[AlbMagno]

Oh please, no one died during the cermony, if you were right and they were idols, they could always repent. A mass shooting is much more imminent, and I wouldn’t clasify it as stealing but more as “neutralization”, after all, the shooter wasn’t supposed to use (or have) a gun, while the amazonians were lawfully permitted to enter the statues by ecclesiastical authorities and the civil goverment of the place (the Vatican).

 

[Aquinas11]

no one died during the cermony

As I said, even if they did, wouldn’t be as serious as loss of an immortal soul due to presence of the Idols.

I wouldn’t clasify it as stealing but more as “neutralization”, after all, the shooter wasn’t supposed to use (or have) a gun,

I would classify tossing the Idols as “neutralization” too since Amazonians weren’t “supposed to use” Idols in Church, see 1st Commandment.

while the amazonians were lawfully permitted to enter the statues by ecclesiastical authorities and the civil goverment of the place (the Vatican).

So “ecclesiastical authorities and the civil government of the place” trumps the authority of God the Father (1st Commandment)?

 

[Emeraldlady]

Day Idols were tossed = critics said “why are they anonymous? very cowardly to not reveal identity!”

Day Identity revealed = critics say “why are they coming forward? publicity stunt!!”

Psychology 101. That is exactly how cowardly bullies operate. Do the deed covertly and wait and see whether other wannabe coward bullies get their bluster up. When they do they come out of hiding to claim their glory.

 

[rom]

I don’t see how that’s proportionate with creating problems for the Church.

What problems does hiding their true identity do for the Church? It only creates problems for bad prelates; that’s why they don’t want the sh*t to hit the fan.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

What problems does hiding their true identity do for the Church?

The problems that come from hiding now have but opening an old wound for a bad reason isn’t prudent and only adds to the problem.

 

[AlbMagno]

You are assuming they are idols, I am not. We can’t discuss any further than this.

 

[Taras_Bulba]

It wasn’t fruitless. P-ma was announced to have been found by Police and was going to make an appearance at the concluding mass of the synod in St Peters, however, all that made it was a small container of dirt with a flower or two. P-ma was nowhere in sight, and it wasn’t coincidence. The authorities blinked.

 

[rom]

Is stealing good?

Taking the idols out of the church is NOT theft. It’s cleansing the church of idols. Alexander and his companions didn’t merely get rid of idols. They also sent a message to the hierarchy, that the first commandment must be obeyed. By throwing the idols into the Tiber, they did say their message loud and clear.

 

[Aquinas11]

Pope Francis called them “Pachamamas” which are known Idols. We saw the people circled around them and bowing to them. We saw the people incensing them. Now if Pope Francis misspoke and the people were merely performing yoga stretches and someone accidentally left yoga equipment (that you incense) in the Church, let’s hear it.

 

[Salibi]

you would have no problem someone conquering the Al Azhar and converting it into a Christian basilica. Same God, same prayers, no difference?

Kindly point out where exactly did I say “same prayers, same difference”. I said nothing of the sort. What I did say was that we share the same God, which is in line with Catholic teaching. Do scroll back and reread my post.

As for conquering al-Azhar, that’s probably one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen on this forum, and I’ve been here a while. For starters, “conquering” al-Azhar would serve nothing at all save aggravating the Muslim population. To say nothing of the impossibility of the act. The point is not to aggravate the Muslims through such medieval, needless acts of aggression, but convert them to the word of our LORD so that they with their own hands can convert the mosque into a church.

 

[AlbMagno]

Why it isn’t theft?

 

[AlbMagno]

I could explain to you but you wouldn’t understand, you would continue to say that they were idols.

 

[Adamek]

As for conquering al-Azhar, that’s probably one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen on this forum,

Since it is coming from you, I’ll take it as a compliment.
Do don’t like logic too much, do you.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

That’s not what I’m talking about.

 

[Aquinas11]

I could explain to you

Explain to me that a known Pachamama idol isn’t an idol? If you can explain that it would be huge news. As I said even Pope Francis said it was Pachamama. He said no “idolatrous intent” which can only be known from outward acts, and the outward acts are as discussed (bowing, dancing around, incensing, etc) which you haven’t refuted

 

[Alphard]

Why you do this? Tell me

 

[rom]

Why it isn’t theft?

OK, here is Ethics 101:

Two acts can be materially the same but formally different. The act of killing an innocent person is materially the same as the act of killing an unjust aggressor, but they are two formally different acts. The first is murder, while the second is self-defense. Likewise, taking the Amazonian statues away from the church is materially the same as stealing them, but the act does not have the formal character of stealing, because it is an act of getting rid of idols in a place of worship.

Similarly, the act of destroying property that does not belong to you is materially a bad act (vandalism), but formally it can be a good act depending on various factors and circumstances that affect the formal character of the act. Thus, Moses destroyed the golden calf; Christ overturned the tables of the moneychangers in the Temple. Materially they were vandalizing, but formally they were teaching the people how God must be respected. So, those who had the courage to go into the church, take away the idols and throw them into the river, have done a highly commendable job.

I wrote the above in another thread, but just copied and pasted it here.

 

[Aquinas11]

Psychology 101. That is exactly how cowardly bullies operate

Yes they just oppose whatever their opponent does. Saul Alinsky tactics. Freeze the target. Isolate it. Polarize it. IN this case, the guys who disposed of Idols. Before they went public? Attacked him (cowards!), after they come public? Attacked them (publicity stunt!). It has nothing to do with substance. Its just all about attack the target , all the time, irrespective of substance.

 

[Aquinas11]

So, the ends justify the means after all

You said yourself - take the gun from the mass shooter, which is technically theft. (ends of saving people in Church justify the means - theft)