One of the men who threw the Idols (Pachamama) in the Tiber speaks!

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GiftofMercy said:
Can someone explain syncretism to me please
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Well, according to the dictionary syncretism is the blending together of two different systems of belief. This is really a bad, or at least a dangerous thing, because different faiths are often incompatible. For example, there is danger when Amazonian beliefs are mixed with Christianity, because the beliefs are sometimes incompatible. This is also the danger in ecumenical movements that attempt to make different religions unite in prayer or other liturgical activities. For example, the Catholic God is not the same as the Hindu god or gods.

Syncretism is different from inculturation. Inculturation is the adaptation of Christianity to the culture and practices of a group of people. For example, when prayers are said in the local language, or when local customs and stories are used to illustrate catechetical teaching, or when religious events are depicted in local art forms, etc. Note that inculturation does NOT change Church dogma, but simply adapts the expression of Church teaching in a form that blends more nicely with the culture of the people that is being evangelized. If not done properly, inculturation can also degenerate into syncretism.

Well, that is my understanding of these concepts. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
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syncretism is the mixture and blending of two separate faiths that are normally irreconcilable with each other. A perfect example is the Santeria cults. It is a mixture of Catholicism with afro-caribbean voodoo. To the untrained eye it may look like it’s just their own little version of Catholicism, but in no way shape or form is it actually Catholic.
 
CatholicELATeacher said:
Here’s yer Pachamama prayer right here, on p. 17.
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Thank you for this reference.

And here is the Google translation of this prayer:

Pachamama of these places,
Drink and eat this offer at will,
Let this land be fruitful.
Pachamama, good Mother
Be propitious! Be propitious!
Let the oxen walk well,
And that does not get tired.
Let the seeds come out well,
That nothing bad happens to her,
Let the frost not destroy it,
That produces good food.
We ask you:
Give us everything.
Be propitious! Be propitious!

(Prayer to the Mother Earth of the Inca peoples)
 
rom said:
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adgloriam:
Nope, Vatican spokesperson at the daily press conference.
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It was the Pope, not the Vatican spokesperson, who called the statues as the Pachamama. You can even read the full transcript of the Pope’s remarks here: Full transcript of the Pope’s comments on pagan ‘Pachamama’ statues | News | LifeSite
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Just FAKE NEWS. (a newsroom with over 100 journalists an not a single one successfully recorded the pope, yeah right.)

LifeSiteNews purposely twists the pope’s words (gossip and decontextualizing with malice are sins) as the original story in IMedia proves. Besides, the pope’s reference would have been an obvious informal shorthand not a formal classification - that much is obvious, the pope’s usual style gives him that margin of informality in these ocasions.
rom said:
The Austrians have a right to be there.
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And the pope was forced to apologize for the Austrians actions (nice going, getting the pope to apologize for your stunt). Plus the pope handed the issue over to the secretary of State, which does mean legal consequences for theft. The Austrians had no right to steal or vandalize, there’s proper authority in the church. (That’s what the pope was saying.)
 
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adgloriam said:
Besides, the pope’s reference would have been an obvious informal shorthand not a formal classification - that much is obvious, the pope’s usual style gives him that margin of informality in these ocasions.
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So you have the ability to read the Pope’s mind?
adgloriam said:
And the pope was forced to apologize for the Austrians actions (nice going, getting the pope to apologize for your stunt).
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The Pope was “forced to apologise”… really?

I doubt that. I think it more likely you are engaged in hyperbole.
 
Alexander Tschugguel.

Occupation: hero.
 
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adgloriam said:
LifeSiteNews purposely twists the pope’s words (gossip and decontextualizing with malice are sins) as the original story in IMedia proves.
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Lifesitenews did not twist the pope’s words. The transcript was actually only copied from Vatican news (See Post 222 above, by Onefaith4ever). Before you accuse Lifesitenews again of twisting the pope’s words, may I remind you of your own words: “gossip and decontextualizing with malice are sins.”
adgloriam said:
And the pope was forced to apologize for the Austrians actions…
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The Pope did not apologize for the Austrians ‘actions. He apologized because his imprudent act of putting the idols in a Catholic church was not tolerated by faithful Catholics. It is not the Austrians but the idols which have no right being in a Catholic church.
 
No matter the impropriety of the carvings in a Catholic Church, it is a sin to steal something that doesn’t belong to you and vandalize it.
If the man objected, he should have gone to the pastor/bishop/pope and voiced his concerns instead of stealing them. Or he could have taken them outside and set them on the steps. Any number of actions could have been taken, and they could have been done quietly and respectfully.

Too much individualism. Individualism doesn’t edify the faithful it spreads dissent.
 
I mentioned . . .
Alexander Tschugguel.

Occupation: hero.
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Feanor2 . . .
Birds of a feather.
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I don’t know if you were talking about me or @ralfy, but if you were talking about me,
thank you so much for the compliment.

May it be so.
 
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I was talking about Voris.

Sorry about the lack of clarity.
 
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Feanor2 . . .
I was talking about Voris.

Sorry about the lack of clarity.
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There was no “Voris” on that thread (now that the thread has been conglomerated with this one there probably is. I just don’t know. But the only other two posts were @ralfy and mine. And Alexander’s video [here it is again] did not include “Voris” at least Alexander’s video that was posted.)
 
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goout said:
No matter the impropriety of the carvings in a Catholic Church, it is a sin to steal something that doesn’t belong to you and vandalize it.
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It is not stealing. See my post (Post #86) above.
goout said:
If the man objected, he should have gone to the pastor/bishop/pope and voiced his concerns instead of stealing them.
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Under normal circumstances, yes. Under the present circumstances, where the prelates and authorities you want to raise your objection to, are the ones disregarding the first commandment and canon law, then good luck. What the Austrians did was appropriate. By throwing the idols into the Tiber, they gave a message that both the Pope and the whole world heard.
 
goout said:
No matter the impropriety of the carvings in a Catholic Church, it is a sin to steal something that doesn’t belong to you and vandalize it.
If the man objected, he should have gone to the pastor/bishop/pope and voiced his concerns instead of stealing them. Or he could have taken them outside and set them on the steps. Any number of actions could have been taken, and they could have been done quietly and respectfully.

Too much individualism. Individualism doesn’t edify the faithful it spreads dissent.
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I don’t think the dissent is spread by the destruction of the idols, but by their being allowed to be placed inside the Church to begin with.

And I don’t believe that the claim of theft is more troublesome then the actual statues themselves. In all fairness, the clergy who were running the synod had no intentions of removing the very thing that they allowed. The entire Amazonian setup was done at their behest, so who were people supposed to complain to? The opening ceremony was already receiving questions and negative publicity and we saw what kind of damage control they were doing to address that debacle.
 
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I saw a video of voris interviewing the man who threw the stair in the Tiber. Maybe I accidentally thought this thread flowed from that video interview.
 
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