Only The Elect Are Saved and Will Be

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This is to continue from the Mortal Sin thread that was closed…this is important information that I would like for Mikeledes to see and for others. I will paste what I posted…

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Romans 8:30 KJV)

Whomever is justified – these he glorified…ultimate salvation for those who are justified.
**
So, that is only for the elect – 'tis true.**

How about these…

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1 KJV)

For the elect only?

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. (John 10:27-29 KJV)

For the elect only?

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: (Philippians 1:6 KJV)

For the elect only?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24 KJV)

For the elect only?

And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Galatians 5:24 KJV)

For the elect only?

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:1-3 KJV)

For the elect only? After all, they were born again!! This could mean those non-elect that God gives to the Son NOT to raise up at the last day.

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, (1 Peter 1:4 KJV)

For the elect only?

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Peter 1:5 KJV)
**
For the elect only??**

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14 KJV)

For the elect only? Along the same lines…

Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. (John 13:10 KJV)

For the elect only??

Is 1 John full of scriptures ONLY for the born again elect???

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. (1 John 2:29 KJV)

We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. (1 John 3:14 KJV)

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9 KJV)

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. (1 John 5:4 KJV)

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1 John 5:18 KJV)

For the elect only??
**
How about these…**

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Romans 5:1 KJV)
**
Is that for the elect only?**

How about…

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Romans 5:2 KJV)
**
Is that for the elect only??**

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:4-5 KJV)

Is that only for the elect?

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (Romans 3:24 KJV)

What about that – is that only for the elect?

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (Romans 5:9 KJV)

Is that only for the elect?

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. (Romans 8:33 KJV)
**
Yes – this is for the elect…**

What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? (Romans 8:31 KJV)

Who is this one for?

Cont’d
 
In light of Ephesians 1 and the glorious introduction…

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; (Ephesians 1:1-7 KJV)

Is it that only the elect get to hear these things said to them – or the non-elect vessels fit for destruction…

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:13 KJV)

Is that only for the elect?

Now back to Romans again -

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. (Romans 5:10 KJV)

Is this only for the elect?

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (Romans 6:3 KJV)

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: (Romans 6:5 KJV)

Is this only for the elect?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. (Romans 6:17 KJV)
**
Is this for the elect only…**

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1 KJV)

I am repeating myself – but who is this for?

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. (Romans 8:27 KJV)

Is that for the elect only…

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (Romans 8:28 KJV)

This??

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? (Romans 8:35 KJV)

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:37-39 KJV)

This is not only for the elect, is it?

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6:37 KJV)

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:44 KJV)

And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. (John 6:65 KJV)

This set of scriptures – I have argued that only the elect – those given to the Son by the Father – can come to Christ and be IN CHRIST.

Romans, again…

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (Romans 8:16 KJV)

Is this for the elect only?

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. (Romans 8:26 KJV)

How about this???

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. (Romans 8:34 KJV)

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:25 KJV)

Is that for the elect only?

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (1 John 2:1 KJV)

How about this…

We could continue on and continue on and continue on…

As long as you continue to “parable-squeeze” and use words here and there to turn the countless passages and broad context of scripture on its head, you will continue to err in this forum.
 
Let us go along with one of your passages…

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:4 KJV)

OR

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:4 NAS95)

Let us go over here…John 15

"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. (John 15:2 NAS95)

There is an outward association that you have not grasped yet…an association that is not at all in line with – being a sheep, being in Christ, being accepted in the beloved…BORN AGAIN…a child of God…one of the adotped…dead to the law…

I always like to show you that you fail in your interpretation when you use these passages…

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 NAS95)

We see them in line with…

"Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance. (Luke 8:11-15 NAS95)

And with John 15:2…those who bear no fruit…CAN THAT FAITH SAVE THEM??

What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? (James 2:14 NAS95)

Do you wish to call the faith that James evaluates JUSTIFIYING FAITH?

He says it is dead…demonic, useless, fruitless…CAN THAT FAITH SAVE HIM? You say it is enough to justify him but then they are plucked out of Christ…if he is not justified how can he be IN CHRIST. It is mere outward association.

But if we continue in Hebrews 6…

For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. (Hebrews 6:7-8 NAS95)

Sound like James 2? Dead faith…counterfeit faith…

But – he continues…

But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. (Hebrews 6:9 NAS95)

Read the context! Before and after.

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:26-29 NAS95)

I have already told you!

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (1 John 3:6 NAS95)

Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God. (3 John 1:11 NAS95)

Who is John speaking of here??? Non-elect never-saved people who were tares and bad fish that got caught in the dragnet…

"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind; and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:47-50 NAS95)

🙂
 
You must be a sheep to believe and to follow Christ…

"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. (John 10:26 NAS95)

And be in Christ!

You say that other men can take those in Christ out of His hand and the Father’s hand…BUT…

and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. (John 10:28-29 NAS95)

You say those in Christ can come into condemnation…those that have passed from death to life…God does not…

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. (John 5:24 NAS95)

Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1 NAS95)

Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; (Romans 8:33 NAS95)

The people you speak of cannot be sheep - cannot be in Christ - cannot be justified. Please stop using your buzz words to your advantage and look at the camel!

What are you doing?
 
Speaking of election and being born again…if you say that a person is born again at baptism and that they can be justified as an infant…then…what you have to conclude is that there were non-elect people who were born again and there were elect people that were born again…since you support born again infant baptism. This is why I would say that this infant baptism is a problem…

**Point 1 **- The first mention of infant baptism is at the end of the 2nd century.

Point 2 - Because the New Covenant members are not defined by physical descent, as the old covenant members were, but by God’s writing his law on their heart and calling them to himself and bringing them to repentance and faith.

In accord with this narrowing of the covenant people to those who are truly born of God, the new sign of the covenant is meant to signify that a person is indeed part of that new born covenant community, which is evident by faith.

In the same way that a change in the sign came in to allow both men and women to participate in the sign (baptism instead of circumcision), thus making it clearer than before that women and men are equal heirs of salvation (1 Peter 3:7), so also a change in the recipients of the sign came in to make it clearer that under the New Covenant the people of God are not determined at all by physical descent, but by spiritual transformation, evidenced in faith.

…John the Baptist called for baptism for those already having the sign of the covenant, showing that a new meaning was being given to the sign - no longer pointing to physical descent from Abraham, but rather spiritual descent through faith and repentance.

Matthew 3:7-9

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bring forth fruit in keeping with repentance; 9 and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you, that God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham.”

…Jesus affirmed John’s ministry and defined the children of God not as those born of certain parents but those born of God through faith.

John 1:12

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

…Paul clarified that the children of Abraham to whom the promise was made were not those born according to the flesh, but those born according to promise. Children of promise and children of the flesh are not the same.

Romans 9:6-8

6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Galatians 3:6-7

6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.

…The children to whom the promise is made are the children who are “called,” and the call of God is free and bound to no physical family.

Acts 2:39 For the promise is for you and your children, and for all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to Himself.

**Point 3 **- Requires faith/appeal for a good conscience

1Pe 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you–not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience–through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Col 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

This is the New Testament circumcision…being reborn through repentance and the inner working of the Holy Spirit to bring about faith in Christ (circumcision without hands). This is the circumcision of the heart.

National Israel was an ethnic Israel where all male children were circumcised as part of the Old Covenant - then, within Israel was a group called the remnant. The church is only made up of elect/called out individuals that have received a calling which brings me to the next point…

Point 4 - There must be a calling first…AND an invitation

Romans 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

This calling takes place at the hearing of the gospel when one is effectually drawn to Christ.

Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh 6:65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

For one to realize this and to come to Christ they must have a circumcision of the heart - where the old becomes new. This can only be realized with a non-infant.

cont’d
 
**Point 5 **- NEVER was an infant recorded as baptized in the NT. This is a result of assumption.

**Point 6…**The NT Circumcision??

Why was this never mentioned as the NT Circumcision in the NT??

What happens in Acts 15?? Here is just an excerpt out from this text…

Ac 15:1 Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”
…
Acts 15:5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter.
7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Why was this not mentioned???

**Point 7 **- We receive the Spirit at the hearing of faith.

Ac 10:43 “Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”
48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

The hearing of faith is described in Romans 10

Also…
Ga 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Joh 7:39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Here we have it both illustrated for us and taught.

Point 8 - Babies BORN AGAIN??

I have always brought this forward as an issue…we have many texts in the book of 1 John that indicate what a person who is born of God will do or how their lives will be characterized…Here are some scriptures:

1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jo 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.
1Jo 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.
1Jo 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith.

Is this characteristic of all baptized Catholics? No it is not. For those who are in the CC (or any other church for that matter) that say they are born again and are characterized as we see below were not born of God…

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
3Jo 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

If you are not circumcised in the heart, infant baptism is of no avail. Baptism follows faith and repentance…justification happens in the heart…

for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. (Romans 10:10 NAS95)

But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. (Romans 6:17-18 NAS95)
 
Just so it is clear - the first two postings above are to show that the language of the Bible shows that only the elect are in Christ…born of God…children of God…sheep…dead to the law… etc.

Mike, when you say that non-elect people are in Christ and sheep and sons of God and dead to the law…you turn all kinds of passages on their head. And, again - there is plenty more to show that those that are in Christ are forever in Christ and these are the elect…and only the elect.

Your insinuation is that Romans 8:30 is only for the elect…so are all of the passages surrounding that passage and elsewhere in scripture only for the elect?

🙂
 
Cling2Cross said:
**Point 1 **- The first mention of infant baptism is at the end of the 2nd century.
Click to expand...
Wrong. The first extra-scriptural mention of infant baptism was found in the catacombs of Rome. Babies born in the 80’s and 90’s (according to the emperor’s names on their gravestones) were baptized as infants.

Infant Baptism has been the practice of the Church since the writings of Acts.

Sacred Tradition trumps all of your other points, for they fall short of the teachings and actions of the Apostles.
 
NotWorthy said:
Wrong. The first extra-scriptural mention of infant baptism was found in the catacombs of Rome. Babies born in the 80’s and 90’s (according to the emperor’s names on their gravestones) were baptized as infants.

Infant Baptism has been the practice of the Church since the writings of Acts.

Sacred Tradition trumps all of your other points, for they fall short of the teachings and actions of the Apostles.
Click to expand...
Oh
 
Cling2Cross said:
Just so it is clear - the first two postings above are to show that the language of the Bible shows that only the elect are in Christ…born of God…children of God…sheep…dead to the law… etc.

Mike, when you say that non-elect people are in Christ and sheep and sons of God and dead to the law…you turn all kinds of passages on their head. And, again - there is plenty more to show that those that are in Christ are forever in Christ and these are the elect…and only the elect.

Your insinuation is that Romans 8:30 is only for the elect…so are all of the passages surrounding that passage and elsewhere in scripture only for the elect?

🙂
Click to expand...
Please post more carefully…rants are not well received.

Since you believe in OSAS, please be advised that I have researched over sixty passages of scripture that deny the teaching. There have even been books written rebutting it by non-Catholics that also recognize it as a flawed doctrine.

Obviously, the elect are those that persevere. Not all that receive the grace of justification will necessarily persevere.

The elect are indeed washed, sanctified, justified, and glorified. There are those that are washed, sanctified, and justified that do not persevere and are not glorified. In the end they are not saved.

The apostle Peter makes this quite clear.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
 
Pax said:
Please post more carefully…rants are not well received.

Since you believe in OSAS, please be advised that I have researched over sixty passages of scripture that deny the teaching. There have even been books written rebutting it by non-Catholics that also recognize it as a flawed doctrine.

Obviously, the elect are those that persevere. Not all that receive the grace of justification will necessarily persevere.

The elect are indeed washed, sanctified, justified, and glorified. There are those that are washed, sanctified, and justified that do not persevere and are not glorified. In the end they are not saved.

The apostle Peter makes this quite clear.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
Click to expand...
False teachers (subject of 2Pet 2) were saved?

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (1 John 3:6 KJV)

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. (2 John 1:9 KJV)

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. (1 John 2:19 KJV)

The born again overcome the world…

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. (1 John 5:4 KJV)

And persevere…

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1 John 5:18 KJV)

🙂

Be careful.

When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. (Luke 11:24-26 KJV)

No Holy Spirit - No perseverance:thumbsup:
 
Cling2Cross said:
Let us go along with one of your passages…

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:4 KJV)

OR

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:4 NAS95)

Let us go over here…John 15

"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. (John 15:2 NAS95)

There is an outward association that you have not grasped yet…an association that is not at all in line with – being a sheep, being in Christ, being accepted in the beloved…BORN AGAIN…a child of God…one of the adotped…dead to the law…

I always like to show you that you fail in your interpretation when you use these passages…

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 NAS95)
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:confused: Funny, I haven’t brought up Hebrews 6 in my discussions with you. Regarding Galatians 5. Who is he talking to?

Galatians 1:6

6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

According to you, only the elect are called by the grace of Christ.

Galatians 3:2

3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

According to you, only the elect have “begun by the Spirit.”

Galatians 5:2-4

2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

When we take it in its broader context, Paul is speaking to genuine born again Christians in this passage. Only they are called by the grace of Christ, can begin with the Spirit, and only they can be severed from Christ and fall from grace. You have to be in grace first before you can fall from it.

I know you must really like showing me how I “fail” in my interpretation of these passages. Ilike when you directly respond to my posts and rebuttals. 🙂

God Bless,
Michael
 
Cling2Cross said:
False teachers (subject of 2Pet 2) were saved?

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (1 John 3:6 KJV)

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. (2 John 1:9 KJV)

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. (1 John 2:19 KJV)

The born again overcome the world…

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. (1 John 5:4 KJV)

And persevere…

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1 John 5:18 KJV)

🙂

Be careful.

When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. (Luke 11:24-26 KJV)

No Holy Spirit - No perseverance:thumbsup:
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Great biblical quotes.👍

Scripture is a great tool, one of the infallible guideline of faith and morals given to us by God.

No Holy Spirit, no truth. A human can’t perserve as easily without the whole truth. I not saying that you have no truth, you’ve been led to a portion of it by the Holy Spirit. Pray for the grace to understand all of his word and not just some of it. It will make a big differece in your spiritual life.👍
 
Here’s a doozy for you, Cling2Cross. Like Church Militant and most other Christians on here, I too am elect. 👋

You do make a fair point in saying that Infant Baptism is assumed from Scripture, and your point might be valid if Scripture stated against it. However, your claim, if we use Scripture only and a similar interpretation to yours, is just as supported as ours.

The fact of the matter is you are adding prime authority to Scripture when it isn’t so, therefor your interpretation is rather hindered as you fall into the same problems that so many others do.

Yet also, no verse contrdicts the Catholic faith. We are all elect, AND we have chosen God, rather than be predestined. We believe that to choose God is the only sincere way to follow Him. When we choose Him, He chose us…

Think about it.
 
I am a little confused, perhaps the OP or some of you that were in the thread referenced in the OP could clarify. Is the OP saying that every Christian is one of the elect guaranteed for heaven? And that Infant Baptism is apparently condemned in Scripture??? :confused:
 
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