Only The Elect Are Saved and Will Be

[Odell]

Can I ask you a question that will put you in a corner…

We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. (1 John 5:18 NAS95)

What does it mean?

Rather than come out and ask me if I never sin…you really need to pray and ask what it means.

C2C

I want ask you if you sin, I will just ask you what is SIN? And what is a deadly Sin? (1 Jn 516-17)

You have also fallen behind on what has been asked of you. I know its hard but you should take the time and respond to the questions asked.

I know your stumped thats why I like reminding you that you have know answer to what the bible plainly says

Here Ill show yoiu the questions again

Originally Posted by mikeledes

Galatians 1:6

6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

According to you, only the elect are called by the grace of Christ.

Galatians 3:2

3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

According to you, only the elect have “begun by the Spirit.”

Galatians 5:2-4

2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

When we take it in its broader context, Paul is speaking to genuine born again Christians in this passage. Only they are called by the grace of Christ, can begin with the Spirit, and only they can be severed from Christ and fall from grace. You have to be in grace first before you can fall from it.

Ok maybe they are not in question form but it still seems to me you have no answer.

 

[Cling2Cross]

I want ask you if you sin, I will just ask you what is SIN? And what is a deadly Sin? (1 Jn 516-17)

You have also fallen behind on what has been asked of you. I know its hard but you should take the time and respond to the questions asked.

I know your stumped thats why I like reminding you that you have know answer to what the bible plainly says

Here Ill show yoiu the questions again

Ok maybe they are not in question form but it still seems to me you have no answer.

I already answered you with plenty of other scripture that blows away your “interpretation”…

A couple…

**My sheep **hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. (John 10:27-29 KJV)

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24 KJV)

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1 KJV)

Those that fall away utterly were never saved…

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (1 John 3:6 KJV)

And in the context of your mortal sin passage…

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1 John 5:16-18 KJV)

This includes the person in Heb 10:26-29…Hebrews 6:4-6, etc. You say sheep can get pulled out hand of Christ. CHRIST…YES - CHRIST…GIVES AN EMPHATIC “NO”. There is an outward association - the person who sits in church that never passes from death to life - never was born again - was not a child - yet sat under the preaching of the gospel but never really came unto the knowledge of the truth.

Why do you insist in turning so many passages on their head (see Page 1 of this thread)?

C2C

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. (Romans 8:33 KJV)

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Romans 8:30 KJV)

For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. (Proverbs 24:16 KJV)

The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand. (Psalms 37:23-24 KJV)

 

[Cling2Cross]

Unbelievers are under the influence of grace through much of their lives in many cases. But never come to salvation.

 

[Odell]

I already answered you with plenty of other scripture that blows away your “interpretation”…

I know you dont realize it but just fireing away with your fallible interpritations of scripture dosnt answer the questions that was posed of you. Your just quoting scripture and I agree with all those passages

So whats the problem?

The problem is when somebody ask you a question on a particular passage and you dont know how to respond to that particular passage you think you can trump it with other passages. So what does the bible contradict itself? Because you still have not addressed those passages

I begining to think you have no answer. But go figure your historys only 500 years old you guys must of not thought of that particular answer.

well here is your chance cling2cross your place in history do you have a rebutal to these passages?

Originally Posted by mikeledes

Galatians 1:6

6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

According to you, only the elect are called by the grace of Christ.

Galatians 3:2

3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

According to you, only the elect have “begun by the Spirit.”

Galatians 5:2-4

2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

When we take it in its broader context, Paul is speaking to genuine born again Christians in this passage. Only they are called by the grace of Christ, can begin with the Spirit, and only they can be severed from Christ and fall from grace. You have to be in grace first before you can fall from it.

A couple…

**My sheep **hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. (John 10:27-29 KJV)

Im going to do somthing that is alian to you im going to respond to each passage you can respond to what I have to say after you answer mikeledes verses

This verse is not saying that YOU can not chose to leave God. None can take us from Christ but you can freely choose to leave him.

What about you could YOU leave God if you chose to?

Now im going to support this by using scripture

notice I answered the verse first before going on to other scripture
to supposrt my claim

Luke 12:42-46 - we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.

Luke 15:11-32 – in the parable of the prodigal son, we learn that we can be genuine sons of the Father, then leave home and die, then return and be described as “alive again.”

John 15:1-10 - we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don’t bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24 KJV)

We take scripture as a whole YES we believe this but Jesus also said that Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter Heaven but the one who does the will of the father. (Matt. 7:21)

What is the will of the father?

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1 KJV)

Well if you are IN Christ Jesus but what if you do not have any fruit? When you dont bear good fruit you are cast out and are no longer in Jesus

Rom 11:22-23 "God’s kindness toward you provided that you remain in His kindness; if you do not, you too will be cut off.”

In Jn 15:6 Jesus tells us that "Anyone who does not remain in ME will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will burn

Those that fall away utterly were never saved…

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (1 John 3:6 KJV)

this is one of those time where I can ask you

Do YOU SIN. If you do you dont know HIM.

This verse also goes to show that we abide in him when we have no sin but if you do we dont know him neither does he know us because Where sin is Christ is not

And in the context of your mortal sin passage…

You did not answer the question what is a sin unto death?

 

[Pax]

I already answered you with plenty of other scripture that blows away your “interpretation”…

A couple…

**My sheep **hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. (John 10:27-29 KJV)
…
…

There are other interpretations of the passage in question then just your own. This is our take on the verse you posted:

Naturally, Catholics say “Amen” to this verse but we understand it a little differently. OSAS proponents apparently believe that this verse demonstrates that the “true believer” cannot be lost because Jesus says, “they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of my hand.” We believe that this verse has to be understood in the greater context of the gospel and that it requires a little analysis to be fully appreciated.

This verse has to be read along side John 17:7-12 which reads, “Now they know that everything that thou hast given me is from thee; for I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me. I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine; all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Notice the reference to Judas. Judas is in the same group given to Jesus by the Father. This is the same language used in John 10:29 where it says,” My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.”

While no one can be snatched from the hand of Jesus or the hand of the Father, Judas was still lost. The only way that this can be properly understood is to see that while we have protection and we cannot be snatched from Jesus’s or the Father’s hand, we are still free to choose to leave that protection. It is for this reason that when we do rebel we must also repent. Moreover, if Jesus was teaching OSAS he would not have been praying to the Father for the apostles and for us in this fashion. There would simply be no need for these prayers for they would have no impact on our salvation because our salvation would be a done deal.

I hope this helps.

 

[Cling2Cross]

There are other interpretations of the passage in question then just your own. This is our take on the verse you posted:

Naturally, Catholics say “Amen” to this verse but we understand it a little differently. OSAS proponents apparently believe that this verse demonstrates that the “true believer” cannot be lost because Jesus says, “they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of my hand.” We believe that this verse has to be understood in the greater context of the gospel and that it requires a little analysis to be fully appreciated.

This verse has to be read along side John 17:7-12 which reads, “Now they know that everything that thou hast given me is from thee; for I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me. I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine; all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Notice the reference to Judas. Judas is in the same group given to Jesus by the Father. This is the same language used in John 10:29 where it says,” My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.”

While no one can be snatched from the hand of Jesus or the hand of the Father, Judas was still lost. The only way that this can be properly understood is to see that while we have protection and we cannot be snatched from Jesus’s or the Father’s hand, we are still free to choose to leave that protection. It is for this reason that when we do rebel we must also repent. Moreover, if Jesus was teaching OSAS he would not have been praying to the Father for the apostles and for us in this fashion. There would simply be no need for these prayers for they would have no impact on our salvation because our salvation would be a done deal.

I hope this helps.

Judas was not saved…he was there to fulfill the prophecy…

Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean REFERRING TO JUDAS. So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you? Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them. I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me. (John 13:8-18 KJV)

Be careful…

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (1 John 3:6 KJV)

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: **but he that doeth evil hath not seen God. **(3 John 1:11 KJV)



There is no place where we can say that Judas was a regenerated follower of Christ. Instead - he was out for number one - himself.

 

[Cling2Cross]

I know you dont realize it but just fireing away with your fallible interpritations of scripture dosnt answer the questions that was posed of you. Your just quoting scripture and I agree with all those passages

So whats the problem?

The problem is when somebody ask you a question on a particular passage and you dont know how to respond to that particular passage you think you can trump it with other passages. So what does the bible contradict itself? Because you still have not addressed those passages

I begining to think you have no answer. But go figure your historys only 500 years old you guys must of not thought of that particular answer.

well here is your chance cling2cross your place in history do you have a rebutal to these passages?

Originally Posted by mikeledes

Galatians 1:6

6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

According to you, only the elect are called by the grace of Christ.

Galatians 3:2

3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

According to you, only the elect have “begun by the Spirit.”

Galatians 5:2-4

2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

When we take it in its broader context, Paul is speaking to genuine born again Christians in this passage. Only they are called by the grace of Christ, can begin with the Spirit, and only they can be severed from Christ and fall from grace. You have to be in grace first before you can fall from it.

Im going to do somthing that is alian to you im going to respond to each passage you can respond to what I have to say after you answer mikeledes verses

This verse is not saying that YOU can not chose to leave God. None can take us from Christ but you can freely choose to leave him.

What about you could YOU leave God if you chose to?

Now im going to support this by using scripture

notice I answered the verse first before going on to other scripture
to supposrt my claim

Luke 12:42-46 - we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.

Luke 15:11-32 – in the parable of the prodigal son, we learn that we can be genuine sons of the Father, then leave home and die, then return and be described as “alive again.”

John 15:1-10 - we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don’t bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.

We take scripture as a whole YES we believe this but Jesus also said that Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter Heaven but the one who does the will of the father. (Matt. 7:21)

What is the will of the father?

Well if you are IN Christ Jesus but what if you do not have any fruit? When you dont bear good fruit you are cast out and are no longer in Jesus

Rom 11:22-23 "God’s kindness toward you provided that you remain in His kindness; if you do not, you too will be cut off.”

In Jn 15:6 Jesus tells us that "Anyone who does not remain in ME will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will burn

this is one of those time where I can ask you

Do YOU SIN. If you do you dont know HIM.

This verse also goes to show that we abide in him when we have no sin but if you do we dont know him neither does he know us because Where sin is Christ is not

You did not answer the question what is a sin unto death?

:coffeeread:

 

[Pax]

Nice try on Judas, but by your own doctrine you interpretation fails. Please note that Judas was just as saved as everyone else until he fell into sin and betrayed Jesus.

You believe that we are saved by faith alone. This is the Achilles heal of your argument above. Please note that scripture tells us that Judas was a believer. We see this, for example, in the narrative of the marriage feast at Cana.

In John 2:11 it says:
“This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed in him.”

We see it again in Jn 17:8 where Jesus says, “and they have believed that thou didst send me.”

We see it again in Matthew 14:33 where it says, "And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Clearly, Judas had faith. Jesus picked the twelve apostles and in Matthew 10:1 it says that Jesus, “….called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity.” Even Judas was given the authority over unclean spirits and the power of healing. Judas was a believer. Judas is described many times as a traitor and even as having stolen money from the common purse. According to scripture there is only one time that Judas did not believe Jesus. In John Chapter 6:64 Judas is pointed out as one of those that did not believe Jesus when He promised to give us His precious body and blood to have as true food and true drink. Many others did not believe what Jesus said in the Discourse on the Bread of Life and they left him. Today non-Catholic Christians also reject the words of Jesus from John 6 and do not believe that Jesus would give us His flesh and blood as true food and true drink. Does this mean that they too are all without root and do not have a true faith? If not, then Judas was just as much a believer as any one else. One thing we do know for sure is that Judas was a traitor. He was saved and then turned away from Jesus.

 

[Cling2Cross]

Nice try on Judas, but by your own doctrine you interpretation fails. Please note that Judas was just as saved as everyone else until he fell into sin and betrayed Jesus.

You believe that we are saved by faith alone. This is the Achilles heal of your argument above. Please note that scripture tells us that Judas was a believer. We see this, for example, in the narrative of the marriage feast at Cana.

In John 2:11 it says:
“This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed in him.”

We see it again in Jn 17:8 where Jesus says, “and they have believed that thou didst send me.”

We see it again in Matthew 14:33 where it says, "And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Clearly, Judas had faith. Jesus picked the twelve apostles and in Matthew 10:1 it says that Jesus, “….called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity.” Even Judas was given the authority over unclean spirits and the power of healing. Judas was a believer. Judas is described many times as a traitor and even as having stolen money from the common purse. According to scripture there is only one time that Judas did not believe Jesus. In John Chapter 6:64 Judas is pointed out as one of those that did not believe Jesus when He promised to give us His precious body and blood to have as true food and true drink. Many others did not believe what Jesus said in the Discourse on the Bread of Life and they left him. Today non-Catholic Christians also reject the words of Jesus from John 6 and do not believe that Jesus would give us His flesh and blood as true food and true drink. Does this mean that they too are all without root and do not have a true faith? If not, then Judas was just as much a believer as any one else. One thing we do know for sure is that Judas was a traitor. He was saved and then turned away from Jesus.

So now you seem to be saying that the elect can fall away from salvation…is this true?

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6:37 KJV)

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:44 KJV)

And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. (John 6:65 KJV)

 

[Pax]

This is not what is being said. The elect are those that wind up in heaven. The elect are those that persevere. Not everyone that is initially saved will continue in Christ. That is why there are so many passages of scripture that speak of the conditional nature of our salvation.

 

[NotWorthy]

So now you seem to be saying that the elect can fall away from salvation…is this true?

That would seem to be the case.

In 2 Peter chapter 2:

*** For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.***For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them. What is expressed in the true proverb has happened to them, “The dog returns to its own vomit,” and "A bathed sow returns to wallowing in the mire."

 

[Cling2Cross]

This is not what is being said. The elect are those that wind up in heaven. The elect are those that persevere. Not everyone that is initially saved will continue in Christ. That is why there are so many passages of scripture that speak of the conditional nature of our salvation.

So…these people given to Christ that are raised up on the last day are not the elect/patially the elect? I am not understanding your reasoning…that makes no sense.

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (Romans 9:21-24 KJV)

Does God justifiy vessels of wrath…vessels unto dishonor? The elect must persevere and will - you seem to look at the practical working out of salvation without looking at the overall picture. The conditional part will indeed take place for the elect…no other people can come to Christ other than those that are given to Him by the Father. All others are tares/bad fish (I again lead you to the parables of the dragnet and the wheat/tares).

God has ordained the end of the salvation and the means by which it will actually come about. You need to see it from both aspects. What confuses people is that we have an infinite God writing and communicating with a finite humanity.

C2C

 

[Cling2Cross]

This is not what is being said. The elect are those that wind up in heaven. The elect are those that persevere. Not everyone that is initially saved will continue in Christ. That is why there are so many passages of scripture that speak of the conditional nature of our salvation.

I ask you one more thing…are these people that you talk about really in Christ??

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1 KJV)
**
Are they sheep?**

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. (John 10:27-29 KJV)
**
Did they pass from death to life?**

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24 KJV)

Were they born again?

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1 John 5:18 KJV)

Were they Children of God?

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Romans 8:14 KJV)

Or were they children of the devil?

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1 John 3:9-10 KJV)

 

[Pax]

Cling2Cross,

First of all I would like to take a moment to compliment you on the choice you made for your forum name. I like it, and I believe that it is a great testimony to what all of us as Christians must do. We must cling to our Savior Jesus and the redemption that He has provided through his passion and death on the cross.

So far in this discussion you have only quoted scripture as it speaks to the elect. This means that the verses only speak of those that persevered in faith to the end. You have not looked at all of the scriptures that speak of those that do not persevere.

I am now going to ask you a couple of very important questions that I have already touched on in my discussion of Judas. Please tell me if you believe the following:

1. Salavation is by faith alone. Yes or No?
2. All those that believe/have faith will be saved?

 

[Cling2Cross]

Cling2Cross,

First of all I would like to take a moment to compliment you on the choice you made for your forum name. I like it, and I believe that it is a great testimony to what all of us as Christians must do. We must cling to our Savior Jesus and the redemption that He has provided through his passion and death on the cross.

So far in this discussion you have only quoted scripture as it speaks to the elect. This means that the verses only speak of those that persevered in faith to the end. You have not looked at all of the scriptures that speak of those that do not persevere.

I am now going to ask you a couple of very important questions that I have already touched on in my discussion of Judas. Please tell me if you believe the following:

1. Salavation is by faith alone. Yes or No?
2. All those that believe/have faith will be saved?

What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” **You believe **that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; (James 2:14-22 NAS95)

C2C

For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. (Romans 3:28 NAS95)

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, (Romans 5:1 NAS95)

This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? (Galatians 3:2 NAS95)

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. (Romans 10:17 NAS95)

 

[Pax]

I love all of scripture and thank you for the quote, but please answer my questions. It’s a straight forward deal here.

 

[Cling2Cross]

I love all of scripture and thank you for the quote, but please answer my questions. It’s a straight forward deal here.

It says my answer

 

[fbl9]

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us…

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (1 John 2:1 NKJV)

I may sin…but I am yet justified by faith and not “in my sins” for when I was justified by faith, I became dead to the law…is this your way of saying that you c2c do sin? what law did you become dead to? 1St. John 2:1 kinda wrecks your agruement that because one is of the elect that one does not sin.

 

[Pax]

It says my answer

Based on the quote, I would then come to the conclusion that you do not believe that we are saved by faith alone. Likewise, I must surmise that a person can lose their salvation.

 

[Pax]

I ask you one more thing…are these people that you talk about really in Christ??

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1 KJV)
**
Are they sheep?**

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. (John 10:27-29 KJV)
**
Did they pass from death to life?**

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24 KJV)

Were they born again?

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1 John 5:18 KJV)

Were they Children of God?

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Romans 8:14 KJV)

Or were they children of the devil?

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1 John 3:9-10 KJV)

Please refer to John’s letters. John frequently uses the word “abide.” This word means to remain. Yes, there are many people that are “in Christ” but some do not “remain” in Christ and that is why John gives numerous warnings. Here is but one example:

1 John 2: 24-25
Let what you heard from the beginning abide[remain] in you. **If what you heard from the beginning abides[remains] in you, then **you will abide[remain] in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he has promised us, eternal life.