Open Thread for the Synod on the Family

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The ambiguous sections of the relatio have been rejected. Look at how the reporters of the second article portray this. They are suggesting that it is a loss for Pope Francis and that the bishops have rejected a welcoming,merciful attitude towards homosexuals.

news.yahoo.com/vatican-document-family-revises-language-gays-183411945.html

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The final version of a controversial Vatican document issued on Saturday radically revised its earlier wording on homosexuals, eliminating language that had talked more positively of them than ever before in church history.

The document, called a “relatio”, was issued at the conclusion of a two-week assembly, or synod, of some 200 Roman Catholic bishops from around the world.

After an initial draft was released on Monday, conservative bishops vowed to change the language, saying it had created confusion among the faithful and threatened to undermine the traditional family.

news.yahoo.com/bishops-revise-document-gays-expect-approval-125810087.html

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Catholic bishops scrapped their landmark welcome to gays Saturday, showing deep divisions at the end of a two-week meeting sought by Pope Francis to chart a more merciful approach to ministering to Catholic families.

The revised paragraph had said “people with homosexual tendencies must be welcomed with respect and delicacy.” But the paragraph failed to reach the two-thirds majority needed to pass.

Two other paragraphs concerning the other hot-button issue at the synod — whether divorced and civilly remarried Catholics can receive Communion — also failed to pass.
 
The ambiguous sections of the relatio have been rejected. Look at how the reporters of the second article portray this. They are suggesting that it is a loss for Pope Francis and that the bishops have rejected a welcoming,merciful attitude towards homosexuals.

news.yahoo.com/vatican-docume…183411945.html

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The final version of a controversial Vatican document issued on Saturday radically revised its earlier wording on homosexuals, eliminating language that had talked more positively of them than ever before in church history.

The document, called a “relatio”, was issued at the conclusion of a two-week assembly, or synod, of some 200 Roman Catholic bishops from around the world.

After an initial draft was released on Monday, conservative bishops vowed to change the language, saying it had created confusion among the faithful and threatened to undermine the traditional family.

news.yahoo.com/bishops-revise…125810087.html

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Catholic bishops scrapped their landmark welcome to gays Saturday, showing deep divisions at the end of a two-week meeting sought by Pope Francis to chart a more merciful approach to ministering to Catholic families.

The revised paragraph had said “people with homosexual tendencies must be welcomed with respect and delicacy.” But the paragraph failed to reach the two-thirds majority needed to pass.

Two other paragraphs concerning the other hot-button issue at the synod — whether divorced and civilly remarried Catholics can receive Communion — also failed to pass.
 
That tracks with what Pope Francis told the bishops in a 10-minute speech at the end, saying that the Catholic Church needs to chart a middle course between “hostile rigidity” and a “false sense of mercy.”
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The Church, Francis said, must neither “throw stones at sinners, the weak and the ill,” nor “come down off the cross” by accommodating itself to “the spirit of the world.”
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The pope received a five-minute standing ovation.
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Source: cruxnow.com/church/2014/10/18/bishops-water-down-welcome-to-gays-and-the-divorced/

I think much of the angst of the past few days can be safely put to rest with the Holy Father’s statement. Nothing heretical in his speech!
 
If the Holy Father has another view on this than the media suggests, i would hope that he makes it clear…why does he keep us wondering like this? makes no sense, i came to the Catholic Church because it was clear and unwilling to conform to public opinion, i don’t think it is, but it is very upsetting that the Pope will not speak up more.
 
pbmbfl said:
If the Holy Father has another view on this than the media suggests, i would hope that he makes it clear…why does he keep us wondering like this? makes no sense, i came to the Catholic Church because it was clear and unwilling to conform to public opinion, i don’t think it is, but it is very upsetting that the Pope will not speak up more.
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Dialogue matters. It also is good that there is a greater recognition of collegiality.

And we got the world’s attention, didn’t we? If the Pope issued a one page paper outlining his view, what are the chances the world would take note? At least now people are starting to realize the Church doesn’t hate anyone, even if they still have a misguided sense of what the Church believes.
 
*That tracks with what Pope Francis told the bishops in a 10-minute speech at the end, saying that the Catholic Church needs to chart a middle course between “hostile rigidity” and a “false sense of mercy.”

The Church, Francis said, must neither “throw stones at sinners, the weak and the ill,” nor “come down off the cross” by accommodating itself to “the spirit of the world.”

The pope received a five-minute standing ovation.*

👍 Bravo!.
 
The Church, Francis said, must neither “throw stones at sinners, the weak and the ill,” nor “come down off the cross” by accommodating itself to “the spirit of the world.”
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Is this a “middle course” or just basically what the Church has said all along, i.e., a re-affirmation of teaching?

I hope no Catholics think this is a new “middle course!”
 
pbmbfl said:
If the Holy Father has another view on this than the media suggests, i would hope that he makes it clear…why does he keep us wondering like this? makes no sense, i came to the Catholic Church because it was clear and unwilling to conform to public opinion, i don’t think it is, but it is very upsetting that the Pope will not speak up more.
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What more do you want him to say? The Synod was the first part of a process that will resume in a year with another Synod, after which the Holy Father, having listened to everyone, will do as Saint Benedict suggests an abbot should do:
Whenever any important business has to be done in the monastery, let the Abbot call together the whole community and state the matter to be acted upon. Then, having heard the brethren’s advice, let him turn the matter over in his own mind and do what he shall judge to be most expedient.The reason we have said that all should be called for counsel is that the Lord often reveals to the younger what is best.
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Let the brethren give their advice with all the deference required by humility, and not presume stubbornly to defend their opinions; but let the decision rather depend on the Abbot’s judgment, and all submit to whatever he shall decide for their welfare.
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The Holy Father’s closing statement was perfectly orthodox. You may recall that prior to Paul VI issuing Humanae Vitae, he similarly called together bishops and experts, a very vocal number of which were in favour of artificial birth control and pressuring him in that direction. He didn’t immediately pronounce on the issue but went off to study it; and when he some time later issued Humanae Vitae, to everyone’s surprise it went against the tendency everyone thought it would follow and continued to build on Church doctrine but with an important clarification that natural methods of spacing children were licit if one had valid reasons, something not entirely clear at that time.

It’s therefore too premature to corner the Holy Father for a clear pronouncement on the issues discussed at the Syond. They were discussed because these are problem areas that make it difficult to evangelize, and needed to be discussed. He heard the counsel across the spectrum of opinion from his bishops as well as from families themselves; he will pursue the process next year, and he will then finally likely issue something after that.

So my advice is to stay calm, carry on, and let the Holy Spirit continue to guide the Church and its leaders. As the famous saying goes, Rome wasn’t built in a day. Perhaps we cradle Catholics are more used to things taking a long time as well as ambiguity. As a fan of the liturgy in Gregorian chant, we were told in 1970 that a new Latin antiphonary for the LOTH would be issued “soon”; the first volume was released 40 years later in 2010. I suspect that the outcome of these discussions will take rather less time than that, but in the meantime there’s no need to worry. The Church is protected against doctrinal error by the Holy Spirit. That doesn’t mean she might not accidentally adopt disciplines that turn out to be questionable decisions, but the Church will soldier on regardless, the doctrine intact.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Is this a “middle course” or just basically what the Church has said all along, i.e., a re-affirmation of teaching?

I hope no Catholics think this is a new “middle course!”
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The Church has always taught this. If the laity perceives that the Church has been emphasizing doctrinal rigidity so much, the message has to be softened and perhaps some disciplines adapted to new realities that could not be foreseen before.

Take for example the notion of same-sex “marriage”. 20 years ago this wasn’t even on the radar. Now in many jurisdictions same-sex civil “marriage” is on the law books, and the Church may suddenly find itself with a civilly-married same-sex couple seeking to develop a closer relationship to God. She has to learn to minister to such couples that doesn’t discourage them, recognizes their inherent human dignity Children of God, and that brings them closer to the Truth. A similar can of worms was opened when states started allowing no-fault divorce. How do we minister to folks who may have been blindsided by an unwanted demand of divorce from a wayward spouse? All sorts of messy situations came out of this. How do we minister to all of them in a way that makes them want to live the Gospel message and grow in holiness?
 
OraLabora said:
How do we minister to all of them in a way that makes them want to live the Gospel message and grow in holiness?
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“Neither do I condemn you (compassion). Go your way, and from now on do not sin again (conversion).”

Of course if those being ministered to do not think they are sinners then no matter how compassionate the message it will not be accepted unless it is on their terms.
 
OraLabora said:
The Church has always taught this. If the laity perceives that the Church has been emphasizing doctrinal rigidity so much, the message has to be softened and perhaps some disciplines adapted to new realities that could not be foreseen before.

Take for example the notion of same-sex “marriage”. 20 years ago this wasn’t even on the radar. Now in many jurisdictions same-sex civil “marriage” is on the law books, and the Church may suddenly find itself with a civilly-married same-sex couple seeking to develop a closer relationship to God. She has to learn to minister to such couples that doesn’t discourage them, recognizes their inherent human dignity Children of God, and that brings them closer to the Truth. A similar can of worms was opened when states started allowing no-fault divorce. How do we minister to folks who may have been blindsided by an unwanted demand of divorce from a wayward spouse? All sorts of messy situations came out of this. How do we minister to all of them in a way that makes them want to live the Gospel message and grow in holiness?
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Do you suppose a softer message and disciplines adapted to new realities might be what the Holy Father is referring to when he speaks of being open to God’s surprises?
 
Sy_Noe said:
Do you suppose a softer message and disciplines adapted to new realities might be what the Holy Father is referring to when he speaks of being open to God’s surprises?
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Yes I believe so. The next year will be interesting indeed!
 
pepipop said:
*That tracks with what Pope Francis told the bishops in a 10-minute speech at the end, saying that the Catholic Church needs to chart a middle course between “hostile rigidity” and a “false sense of mercy.”

The Church, Francis said, must neither “throw stones at sinners, the weak and the ill,” nor “come down off the cross” by accommodating itself to “the spirit of the world.”

The pope received a five-minute standing ovation.*

👍 Bravo!.
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Very proud of the Holy Father and of the Bishops who stood up for the Truth of Jesus and His Church and called for this balance between justice and mercy after the first report was released.
 
LongingSoul said:
The Pope is protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching error in regards to faith and morals issues.
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Only when making a formal declaration ex-cathedra which has happened only three times in over 3 centuries. All other times the pope is as vulnerable to error on faith and morals as anyone. people need to understand infallibity is not personal property/feature of the pope but a feature of the church itself. it is therefore only those times that the pope is speaking effectively for the church on an issue of faith and morals that infallibility attach to him, but not otherwise. same to councils and ordinary magisterium.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Is this a “middle course” or just basically what the Church has said all along, i.e., a re-affirmation of teaching?

I hope no Catholics think this is a new “middle course!”
Click to expand...
I agree. People who think of themselves as moderates tend to be weak on upholding truth and principles. They think they are wise for not taking strong stands,even on truth and principles.
 
Sy_Noe said:
Do you suppose a softer message and disciplines adapted to new realities might be what the Holy Father is referring to when he speaks of being open to God’s surprises?
Click to expand...
That wouldn’t be a surprise of God,just an accommodation of men. I think what he means by God’s surprises is the workings of the Holy Spirit upon the synod and the Church,renewing it with evangelical fervor and joy.
 
anthony022071 said:
That wouldn’t be a surprise of God,just an accommodation of men. I think what he means by God’s surprises is the workings of the Holy Spirit upon the synod and the Church,renewing it with evangelical fervor and joy.
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I don’t see though what would be so surprising to the faithful about that. Faithful Catholics already believe the Holy Spirit works upon the Church.
 
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