Open Thread for the Synod on the Family

  • Thread starter Thread starter Robert_Bay
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
That wouldn’t be a surprise of God,just an accommodation of men. I think what he means by God’s surprises is the workings of the Holy Spirit upon the synod and the Church,renewing it with evangelical fervor and joy.
One of God’s surprises happened in 1968 when liberals/modernists in and outside the Church were sure there was going to be a change in the Church’s teaching on contraception. Instead Pope Paul VI wrote Humanae Vitae beautifully upholding the teaching of Jesus Christ and His Church.

Just as applicable today…
"It is to be anticipated that perhaps not everyone will easily accept this particular teaching. There is too much clamorous out cry against the voice of the Church and this is intensified by modern means of communication, But it comes as no surprise to the Church that she, no less than her divine Founder, is destined to be a ‘sign of contradiction.’ She does not, because of this, evade the duty imposed on her of proclaiming humbly but firmly the entire moral law, both natural and evangelical.
Since the Church did not make either of these laws, she cannot be their arbiter…only their guardian and interpreter. It could never be right for her to declare lawful what is in fact unlawful, since that, by its very nature, is always opposed to the true good of man.
 
One of God’s surprises happened in 1968 when liberals/modernists in and outside the Church were sure there was going to be a change in the Church’s teaching on contraception. Instead Pope Paul VI wrote Humanae Vitae beautifully upholding the teaching of Jesus Christ and His Church.

Just as applicable today…
Time will tell what God may lead the current Holy Father to write in the yrs to come. Based on his papacy since it’s beginning I wouldn’t rule out a continuing call to Catholics to adopt a gentler tone. And OraLabora might be onto something about disciplines. But God in His time will reveal what surprises Pope Francis speaks of the faithful being open to. If you knew now, it wouldn’t be a surprise! 👍 Peace.
 
“Neither do I condemn you (compassion). Go your way, and from now on do not sin again (conversion).”

**Of course if those being ministered to do not think they are sinners **then no matter how compassionate the message it will not be accepted unless it is on their terms.
THIS IS BRILLIANT and just about says it all!
 
I’ve been reading some articles by conservative catholics. They claim that the Church has undermined the battle with secularists. I’ve also read some by liberals who pretty much claim the same thing. Could someone tell me what really happened? What I’ve read seemed to just be reaffirmations of catholic teaching with less emphasis on the immorality of acts and more on the goodness and perfectibility of people involved. Did I miss something?
 
Bill Donahue-Catholic League is going to discuss the Synod on the Bill Cunningham radio show tonight the host Cunningham said. That might be interesting.

So that is Sunday night, the show is currently on so this should be interesting, I’ll bet Donahue comes on at the bottom of the hour, that is 30 minutes after the hour or about 15 minutes from now.
 
I don’t see though what would be so surprising to the faithful about that. Faithful Catholics already believe the Holy Spirit works upon the Church.
That’s true,but faithful,traditional,conservative Catholics (and I consider myself one) are not always open to the ways in which the Holy Spirit is working upon the Church. The Spirit manifests its influence and renews the Church at times when the Church is falling apart with corruption, heresies,dissidence and schisms,and many people fall away from the Church. For example,after the 2nd Vatican Council,everything started to come undone,and the influence of the secular world and liberals and dissidents has been disastrous. But in the midst of the wreckage,the Spirit has been renewing evangelical fervor in the Church,with charismatic groups,pro-life groups,Pope John Paul 2,World Youth Day,the Divine Mercy devotion,Catholic media organizations (such as Catholic Answers,Renewal Ministries,Lighthouse Media,EWTN,Relevant Radio,Church Militant TV) and popular Catholic apologists. Some traditionalists and conservatives don’t see that the Spirit is gradually renewing the Church,and they are mistrustful of the new ways,or uninterested in participating. The liberals and progressives are also mistrustful and uninterested,but for a different reason - they are not strong in faith and loyal to Church doctrine in the first place,they don’t like those who are,and they are afraid of people who are fervent and evangelical.
One of God’s surprises happened in 1968 when liberals/modernists in and outside the Church were sure there was going to be a change in the Church’s teaching on contraception. Instead Pope Paul VI wrote Humanae Vitae beautifully upholding the teaching of Jesus Christ and His Church.

Just as applicable today…
I agree.
 
One of God’s surprises happened in 1968 when liberals/modernists in and outside the Church were sure there was going to be a change in the Church’s teaching on contraception. Instead Pope Paul VI wrote Humanae Vitae beautifully upholding the teaching of Jesus Christ and His Church.

Just as applicable today…
I agree.
 
In the early 70’s my four-year old daughter was primed by all the anti-cigarette commercials. My brother was visiting and lit up. She promptly informed him “Cigarettes Kill!”. Then she added, “But not yours uncle Dan”.

The Spirit of Gradualism reminded me of this. 😃
 
I think big changes are coming in the Church.

The issue will be where is the line drawn between what is dogma and can’t change and what is a discipline.

I wish there was such a list but there isn’t - or rather there are lists but disagreements between them depending on who prepared them.

Our priest said that denying communion to divorced and remarried Catholics is a discipline and not a dogma. As to civil unions where Cardinal Burke said this is heading our priest said that is outside dogma and the church recognizing such unions is permissible and not an issue if it happens.

My gut tells me it will become a question of where the line is drawn over the next years as changes come about and the argument will be over what is a dogma and what is not. Sadly it will break down along conservative vs progressive theologians on this IMO.

The synod left a confusing impression from what I can tell and for those evangelical Christians that had been drawn to convert because of the unchanging nature of the Catholic church vs mainline churches. That draw is going to fade after th synod IMO and given what is done in 2015 may completely disappear.
 
I think big changes are coming in the Church.

The issue will be where is the line drawn between what is dogma and can’t change and what is a discipline.

I wish there was such a list but there isn’t - or rather there are lists but disagreements between them depending on who prepared them.

Our priest said that denying communion to divorced and remarried Catholics is a discipline and not a dogma. As to civil unions where Cardinal Burke said this is heading our priest said that is outside dogma and the church recognizing such unions is permissible and not an issue if it happens.

My gut tells me it will become a question of where the line is drawn over the next years as changes come about and the argument will be over what is a dogma and what is not. Sadly it will break down along conservative vs progressive theologians on this IMO.

The synod left a confusing impression from what I can tell and for those evangelical Christians that had been drawn to convert because of the unchanging nature of the Catholic church vs mainline churches. That draw is going to fade after th synod IMO and given what is done in 2015 may completely disappear.
Yes, I haven’t seen many comments on that. Converts took the tumult and ambiguity of the Synod very, very hard. Also note that the Church IS DOING NOTHING to reach out and reassure them because it is still sorting out what these documents actually mean for the future of the Church - we are in essence in a one year holding pattern (or of active campaigning); nobody can reassure them because nobody knows what’s up. I am not sure many have even noticed their discomfort (or perhaps it is just blending in with everybody else’s but it is a more serious thing I think). I suspect a fair number of them left Churches because a lot of this type of thing was going on.
 
Yes, I haven’t seen many comments on that. Converts took the tumult and ambiguity of the Synod very, very hard. Also note that the Church IS DOING NOTHING to reach out and reassure them because it is still sorting out what these documents actually mean for the future of the Church - we are in essence in a one year holding pattern (or of active campaigning); nobody can reassure them because nobody knows what’s up. I am not sure many have even noticed their discomfort (or perhaps it is just blending in with everybody else’s but it is a more serious thing I think). I suspect a fair number of them left Churches because a lot of this type of thing was going on.
I really don’t know where you’re coming from with this. I’m a convert, and I certainly haven’t left the Church. Nor have any of the other converts I know. We didn’t take the Synod “very very hard,” we don’t need any more reassuring than anybody else, and we don’t have any particular “discomfort” to notice, other than the discomfort caused by people having fits over something that is by no means over and done.
 
Yes, I haven’t seen many comments on that. Converts took the tumult and ambiguity of the Synod very, very hard. Also note that the Church IS DOING NOTHING to reach out and reassure them because it is still sorting out what these documents actually mean for the future of the Church - we are in essence in a one year holding pattern (or of active campaigning); nobody can reassure them because nobody knows what’s up. I am not sure many have even noticed their discomfort (or perhaps it is just blending in with everybody else’s but it is a more serious thing I think). I suspect a fair number of them left Churches because a lot of this type of thing was going on.
Sad but true.

The whole point of Grodi’s Coming Home Network is built around the unity of the church and unchanging doctrine. It will be interesting to see if inquiries to his group by Protestants take a dip after this.

I post at a conservative site that has a religion section. The religion section focuses on debates between evengelicals and Catholics. A lot of it around unity and is it found in the Catholic church.

Here is what one evangelical poster had to say.

**So you see, after the media went nuts hoping that the Catholic Church would not only accept Gay marriage, but no marriage at all, the truth is that this synod was either a close call to the destruction of the Catholic Church or it is a sign of an inevitable end to the Catholic Church.

So what kind of unity can there be when the Pope not only bends to cultural pressure he embraces it?**
 
Sad but true.

The whole point of Grodi’s Coming Home Network is built around the unity of the church and unchanging doctrine. It will be interesting to see if inquiries to his group by Protestants take a dip after this.

I post at a conservative site that has a religion section. The religion section focuses on debates between evengelicals and Catholics. A lot of it around unity and is it found in the Catholic church.

Here is what one evangelical poster had to say.

**So you see, after the media went nuts hoping that the Catholic Church would not only accept Gay marriage, but no marriage at all, the truth is that this synod was either a close call to the destruction of the Catholic Church or it is a sign of an inevitable end to the Catholic Church.

So what kind of unity can there be when the Pope not only bends to cultural pressure he embraces it?**
Are you Catholic? I am a convert and none of what you have posted is true in my case. I trust Christ and his assurances that the gates of hell will not prevail against his Church. I quite frankly could not care less what some anonymous evangelical thinks about our Church or our Pope. Doctrine will not change, dogma will not change. I know that disappoints the devil and his minions, but its the truth.
 
Yes, I haven’t seen many comments on that. Converts took the tumult and ambiguity of the Synod very, very hard. Also note that the Church IS DOING NOTHING to reach out and reassure them because it is still sorting out what these documents actually mean for the future of the Church - we are in essence in a one year holding pattern (or of active campaigning); nobody can reassure them because nobody knows what’s up. I am not sure many have even noticed their discomfort (or perhaps it is just blending in with everybody else’s but it is a more serious thing I think). I suspect a fair number of them left Churches because a lot of this type of thing was going on.
This is something very important to remember.

After all, the Pope and many others are frequently calling the laity to evangelize by showing the Gospel through our lives. If they want that to work, if they want the laity to stand out from the world as a beacon of hope and truth to the world, the most faithful laity must really be supported first.

If things get watered down and confusion is sown, if people conform to the world rather than the world conforming to the Church, the “beacon” of people who stand apart from the world and draw people to Christ will be gone (or at least, greatly diminished).

Yet somehow the hierarchy often seem to take for granted that the faithful ARE such great beacons standing apart when they ask us to go out. We’re not. We’re largely conformed to the culture. So to move in a direction where the Church conforms to the culture just makes the problem worse.

We need help in resisting the culture and becoming more holy. As Matthew Kelly points out, focus on the 7% of Catholics who are active and faithful. Focus on those who are on fire or who have a real interest. Help us to become more holy and we will become better instruments for Christ to draw all to Himself.

Ignore us and confuse us with appeals that seem to capitulate to the culture, and see the whole thing continue to disintegrate.

Any good company or organization knows that you don’t ignore your most loyal, motivated, and committed workers in an attempt to appeal to your mid-level. That top 10-20% is really the part of the organization that is responsible for the great bulk of the success, and the force that lifts others up and motivates them.

So I hope they listen to the zealous converts, to the committed Catholics, and support us in our attempt to live faithfully in accord with all Church teachings in the midst of a hostile world. I know some of the feedback from the bishops of the Synod was that they did see this as a need.

And yes, it is the Catholic Church proclaimed in boldness that is attractive. It is that which has won us zealous converts. Not confusion, not capitulation to the world, not even embracing the world’s way of speaking of things.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top