Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

[sweetcharity]

If you’re innocent until proven guilty, then by default, you’d still be innocent if you weren’t found guilty.

But, that doesn’t mean you didn’t do what you were charged with. You’re just not legally guilty of the crime.

In this case, GZ shot TM. There is no dispute there. Even with that, he’s legally innocent of murder.

Not my words… Not guilty means that there was not enough evidence to move a juror beyond a reasonable doubt. Innocent means that one has not committed a crime.

 

[Dawnia]

Not my words… Not guilty means that there was not enough evidence to move a juror beyond a reasonable doubt. Innocent means that one has not committed a crime.

The juries job is to determine if someone is guilty, not whether they are innocent. It is already legally assumed that they are innocent.

This means you must presume or
believe George Zimmerman is innocent. The presumption stays with George Zimmerman as
to each material allegation in the Information through each stage of the trial unless it has been
overcome by the evidence to the exclusion of and beyond a reasonable doubt.
To overcome George Zimmerman’s presumption of innocence, the State has the
burden of proving the crime with which George Zimmerman is charged was committed and
George Zimmerman is the person who committed the crime.

 

[MaryT777]

he didn’t need a ride. he was within 100 yards of his dad’s girlfriend’s house.

Too bad he ended up dead instead of home; what a tragedy.

 

[MaryT777]

Not only had he BEEN at the store, he had left the store by 6:22. It then took Martin until 7:05, to reach a place that should have taken him 10 - 15 minutes to get to. Hmmm… What was he doing? Certainly not walking “home.” If he had been walking “home” he would have been there before Zimmerman ever saw him.

Who says it should take 10-15 minutes to get home? What was he doing? Easy one,
trying to discern why someone was following him. Why go straight home so someone following you around knows where you live.

 

[LisaA]

Who says it should take 10-15 minutes to get home? What was he doing? Easy one,
trying to discern why someone was following him. Why go straight home so someone following you around knows where you live.

Mary for about the tenth time, read the testimony. Look at the maps that show the tracks of both men. Zimmerman was in his truck and Martin came up to HIM, then ran off. Apparently Zimmerman tried to figure out where he was going but when the dispatcher said “we don’t need you to do that…” he said OK and continued speaking to her about meeting the police. There is no evidence he continued after Martin and both indicated they had lost sight of the other, Martin speaking to Jeantel and Zimmerman speaking to the dispatcher.

Zimmerman was NOT following Martin. He did NOT track him down. Martin “escaped” so to speak and HE returned to confront Zimmerman. Further Martin had been wandering around long before he initially encountered Zimmerman who called in about his suspicious behavior. If he simply wanted to get Skittles and AZ Tea and return home, it would not have taken him that long to do so. He would have been home long before Zimmerman headed out for the Target.

Why must you and others make things up when the truth is the objective of the trial.

Lisa

 

[lcburgundy]

Who says it should take 10-15 minutes to get home? What was he doing? Easy one,
trying to discern why someone was following him. Why go straight home so someone following you around knows where you live.

Wow, you really misspelled “attack” as “discern” there. And if TM was trying to avoid creepy stalker man, he sure did a bad job of it.

We are also halfway to a seance with the sheer amount of inane, baseless speculation around here. At least it seems people have stopped trying to argue some fantasy scenario where TM didn’t start the physical altercation.

 

[MaryT777]

Wow, you really misspelled “attack” as “discern” there. And if TM was trying to avoid creepy stalker man, he sure did a bad job of it.

We are also halfway to a seance with the sheer amount of inane, baseless speculation around here. At least it seems people have stopped trying to argue some fantasy scenario where TM didn’t start the physical altercation.

TM did not deserve to end up dead because HE the victim did not DO the right thing according to whatever each individual decided themselves he should have done.

I disagree with the rest of your post.

 

[MaryT777]

Mary for about the tenth time, read the testimony. Look at the maps that show the tracks of both men. Zimmerman was in his truck and Martin came up to HIM, then ran off. Apparently Zimmerman tried to figure out where he was going but when the dispatcher said “we don’t need you to do that…” he said OK and continued speaking to her about meeting the police. There is no evidence he continued after Martin and both indicated they had lost sight of the other, Martin speaking to Jeantel and Zimmerman speaking to the dispatcher.

Zimmerman was NOT following Martin. He did NOT track him down. Martin “escaped” so to speak and HE returned to confront Zimmerman. Further Martin had been wandering around long before he initially encountered Zimmerman who called in about his suspicious behavior. If he simply wanted to get Skittles and AZ Tea and return home, it would not have taken him that long to do so. He would have been home long before Zimmerman headed out for the Target.

Why must you and others make things up when the truth is the objective of the trial.

Lisa

I have read the testimony and watched the trial.

Zimmerman when asked if he was following Martin said 'YEA".
He did Track him down that’s what following means.
Martin has every right to wander around at night without being stalked as Zimmerman has done before with his girlfriend. He didn’t learn a lesson from his restraining order regretfully.
There is no law that says you have to walk right home in some specific manner;
We don’t know if Zimmerman followed him more or not but his own words which are not credible at all.
He has a history of not being credible.
He lied at the bond hearing.
He lied about knowing self defense laws.
Those ARE facts.

Martin “ESCAPED?” Escaped what? Zimmerman? No he didn’t he’s dead.

 

[LisaA]

I have read the testimony and watched the trial.

Zimmerman when asked if he was following Martin said 'YEA".
He did Track him down that’s what following means.
Martin has every right to wander around at night without being stalked as Zimmerman has done before with his girlfriend. He didn’t learn a lesson from his restraining order regretfully.
There is no law that says you have to walk right home in some specific manner;
We don’t know if Zimmerman followed him more or not but his own words which are not credible at all.
He has a history of not being credible.
He lied at the bond hearing.
He lied about knowing self defense laws.
Those ARE facts.

Martin “ESCAPED?” Escaped what? Zimmerman? No he didn’t he’s dead.

Frightening lack of logic here. Zimmerman may have started following Martin while on the phone with the dispatcher but Martin had run from the scene. They lost sight contact while Zimmerman was still on the phone and when the dispatcher said “we don’t need you to do that” he agreed. No evidence he continued to look for Martin. None. All evidence points to Martin first leaving the scene and then returning to confront Zimmerman.

The ball was in Martin’s court so to speak. He’d left the scene and could have stayed gone. He told Jeantel he was going to “take care of something” put his earphones, the drink and candy in his pockets as if needing his hands free. Next seen sitting on top of Zimmerman and pounding his head in.

That doesn’t sound like Zimmerman “tracked him down.”

Further don’t EVEN bother to try to bring up Zimmerman’s past unless you are also willing to consider Martin’s past. There are now pages of evidence, not included in the trial due to a particular law regarding evidence effective in Florida but not all states. Pages of cell phone calls and texts, reports from the school including previous assaults by Martin, much discussion of using drugs, MMA fighting, and sexual exploits.

Your choirboy’s halo is pretty tarnished. Please get in touch with reality. There is actually EVIDENCE the indicates your version consists of supposition and assumption rather than facts.

Lisa

 

[mtbender]

I have read the testimony and watched the trial.

Zimmerman when asked if he was following Martin said 'YEA".
He did Track him down that’s what following means.
Martin has every right to wander around at night without being stalked as Zimmerman has done before with his girlfriend. He didn’t learn a lesson from his restraining order regretfully.
There is no law that says you have to walk right home in some specific manner;
We don’t know if Zimmerman followed him more or not but his own words which are not credible at all.
He has a history of not being credible.
He lied at the bond hearing.
He lied about knowing self defense laws.
Those ARE facts.

Martin “ESCAPED?” Escaped what? Zimmerman? No he didn’t he’s dead.

Big difference between follow, track down and stalk…

It is a tragedy, but GZ does not deserve to be convicted or condemned because he did not “do the right thing according to whatever each individual decided themselves he should have done” - especially since he has been found not guilty.

And you forgot one other fact - Zimmer was found not guilty by way of self defense. Kind of an important one…

 

[ronaldmiller]

For some to say that GZ was stalking is ridiculous. Perhaps some people here have a problem with neighbourhood watch. Considering that police aren’t legally required to protect people or homes, GZ might have represented the best chance to catch the burglar(s). When you are neighbourhood watch, in the neighbourhood you are assigned to watch, even if off duty, then you aren’t stalking a person who actually doesn’t live there but is a visitor.

 

[SamH]

Too bad he ended up dead instead of home; what a tragedy.

Agreed. Poor decision on his part.

 

[BroomWagon]

For some to say that GZ was stalking is ridiculous. Perhaps some people here have a problem with neighbourhood watch. Considering that police aren’t legally required to protect people or homes, GZ might have represented the best chance to catch the burglar(s). When you are neighbourhood watch, in the neighbourhood you are assigned to watch, even if off duty, then you aren’t stalking a person who actually doesn’t live there but is a visitor.

3 streets in the Twin Lake community, George Zimmerman lives there, he’s neighborhood watch but he has to get out of his SUV to identify the street.

---

Let’s see, a minority commits a disproportionate amount of the crimes in a city?

So using this logic, in for an example, Albuquerque, I have the right to follow any young Hispanic male in a community or at least, one who in my judgment looks out of place if that needs to be qualified.

I agree with one post in one of these forums, it seems Mr. Zimmerman’s conduct contributes to this situation greatly.

George Zimmerman ends the 911 call at 7:13, the police are there by 7:17, there’s the 4 minute gaps.

At this point, Zimmerman follows Martin, eventually losing sight of him. The dispatcher asks, “Are you following him?” When Zimmerman answers, “Yeah,” the dispatcher says, “We don’t need you to do that.” Zimmerman responds, “O.K.” This is probably the best-known part of the exchange. The dispatcher says don’t follow him, one theory goes, Zimmerman does anyway, and that causes the fatal confrontation. But this view of the facts obscures the earlier part of the call—when the dispatcher appears to be asking Zimmerman to follow and report the person’s movements. The call ends when Zimmerman gives the dispatcher information about how the police should find him (Zimmerman, that is) in the complex. Zimmerman asks that the police call him upon their arrival so he can provide his location. Zimmerman ends the call at 7:13 P.M. The first police officer arrived on the scene at 7:17 P.M., by which time Trayvon Martin was already dead.

newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/07/the-facts-in-the-george-zimmerman-trial.html

Tragedy Zimmerman couldn’t wait in his truck for 4 minutes.

For the record, the last 7 times Zimmerman called the police, it was to report suspects who were black said Bob Beckel on the 5,

Guy called the police up to how many?? 45,50 times.

But because of ADHD, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder supposedly, he can’t name one of the 3 streets at Twin Lakes, he has to look at a street sign and so gets out of his car.

 

[Dawnia]

George Zimmerman ends the 911 call at 7:13, the police are there by 7:17, there’s the 4 minute gaps.

Tragedy Zimmerman couldn’t wait in his truck for 4 minutes.

Don’t you mean 3 minutes? We know what he was doing from 7:16 until the cops arrived.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Obviously, some folks want absolute detail, absolute clarity, all the answers on exactly what happened every minute the night that Martin was killed. That is unreasonable and it is also impossible on this side of life. We will never know.

Again, I think we need to accept the verdict. I think we should pray for the Martin family to find comfort and peace and healing. I think we should pray for the Zimmerman family too. Lastly, I also think we should pray for our American family. I hope we can heal after the damage done due to this case, the media’s divisive handling of this case. I really do.

Pray for all of us.

 

[BroomWagon]

Don’t you mean 3 minutes? We know what he was doing from 7:16 until the cops arrived.

Said what I meant, so did Zimmerman’s attorney’s in their closing arguments, 4 minutes, look it up.

 

[mtbender]

3 streets in the Twin Lake community, George Zimmerman lives there, he’s neighborhood watch but he has to get out of his SUV to identify the street.

---

Let’s see, a minority commits a disproportionate amount of the crimes in a city?

So using this logic, in for an example, Albuquerque, I have the right to follow any young Hispanic male in a community or at least, one who in my judgment looks out of place if that needs to be qualified.

I agree with one post in one of these forums, it seems Mr. Zimmerman’s conduct contributes to this situation greatly.

George Zimmerman ends the 911 call at 7:13, the police are there by 7:17, there’s the 4 minute gaps.

Tragedy Zimmerman couldn’t wait in his truck for 4 minutes.

For the record, the last 7 times Zimmerman called the police, it was to report suspects who were black said Bob Beckel on the 5,

Guy called the police up to how many?? 45,50 times.

But because of ADHD, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder supposedly, he can’t name one of the 3 streets at Twin Lakes, he has to look at a street sign and so gets out of his car.

I couldn’t name the 3 closest streets in our subdivision… and I travel several times a day (and I don’t even have ADHD). I am not sure what not knowing the street names proves in this case… doesn’t imply guilt or ill motive in any circumstance. About as irrelevant as you can get… The fact that he doesn’t meet your expectation of what you think he should know has no bearing whatsoever.

 

[BroomWagon]

I couldn’t name the 3 closest streets in our subdivision… and I travel several times a day (and I don’t even have ADHD). I am not sure what not knowing the street names proves in this case… doesn’t imply guilt or ill motive in any circumstance. About as irrelevant as you can get… The fact that he doesn’t meet your expectation of what you think he should know has no bearing whatsoever.

You call it irrelevant, that’s your opinion. Kindly address the situation instead of talking about the poster and your assessment of their expectations please.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=508814

 

[mtbender]

Ah yes… as if somehow calling a fact irrelevant or sharing my assessment of others opinions is contrary to forum rules. Can you point to that paragraph for me please, I must have missed it.

As for the “situation”, I believe I already addressed majority of it as irrelevant to the case. It has just as much bearing as does what TM was carrying in his pockets. As for the rest of your post, it was hard to see a point. So he called 7 times to report suspicious activity - and the suspect was black. Are we going down the “GZ must have been a racist” road again or was there another point you were trying to make? Is it odd that the neighborhood watch would have a disproportionate number of calls to the police? Does it add anything of substance to the situation?

 

[BroomWagon]

Ah yes… as if somehow calling a fact irrelevant or sharing my assessment of others opinions is contrary to forum rules. Can you point to that paragraph for me please, I must have missed it.

The fact that he doesn’t meet your expectation of what you think he should know has no bearing whatsoever.

How do you know what my expectation is? My only expectation is to list facts. You state in shorter terms “your expectation has no bearing whatsoever”. Well, excuse me, this is a forum where matters and issues are discussed, anyone can make that kind of general statement about anyone and anyone’s statement. Good luck if your only contributions to discussions is “your expectations have no bearing”

As for the “situation”, I believe I already addressed majority of it as irrelevant to the case. It has just as much bearing as does what TM was carrying in his pockets. As for the rest of your post, it was hard to see a point. So he called 7 times to report suspicious activity - and the suspect was black. Are we going down the “GZ must have been a racist” road again or was there another point you were trying to make? Is it odd that the neighborhood watch would have a disproportionate number of calls to the police? Does it add anything of substance to the situation?

Nothing wrong with pointing out the facts and details of this case. Sorry that seems to cause offense.