Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

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Cider said:
Facts not established, but speaking hypothetically and not about this case:

you confirmed what I said. Some people think that you deserve to die or be brain damaged if the other person can justify attacking you. You should have no legal recourse to save yourself. You can try and flee, but that’s it.

I completely and utterly disagree.

Even the Church says that we have a right to defense of self and it doesn’t qualify it by saying, but if someone else perceives that you deserve a beating then just take it no matter the outcome.
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What brain damage did Zimmerman suffer?? He didn’t suffer any. His injuries turn out to be in fact, somewhat mild.

So, it may not be clear that Martin used “excessive force” if one is going this route.
cnn.com/2012/04/29/us/stand-your-ground/
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This fine line is called excessive force. During the course of defending yourself you cannot use force greater than what it takes to stop the attack. Where this line is drawn depends greatly on what state you are in, the type of attack, the victim and the attacker. There are so many variables that it often becomes hard to define what is self defense and what is a counter attack.
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So by this reasoning, any threat can be perceived by some as reason to use lethal force:

Daniel Adkins air-swung at the vehicle of the car that almost hit him.

Thus, we can say just the appearance of air-swinging represents a threat to one’s health.
The shooter told police that Adkins “air swung” his hands in the direction of the SUV, but acknowledged he never hit him or his vehicle. Still, he said, he was afraid of what Adkins might do with the weapon he believed he was carrying. Although a weapon was never found, the shooter described it as a 3-foot metal pipe or bat.
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moneyinstructor.com/doc/excessiveforce.asp
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BroomWagon said:
I understand what you are saying, I think the proper verdict was reached.

However, it needs to be said, Zimmerman was brought up on domestic violence charges twice, charges of shoving an officer and had to go to an alcohol program. He was not wearing a uniform. I’m just saying he’s not the ideal person to confront out there as well. I wouldn’t want to even though I think he’s basically a good person.
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I agree; now it’s best to think how could this be prevented.
Maybe just saying after you get out of your car to follow someone
I’m neighborhood watch? Are you lost? Do you need something?
Instead of “suspect” up to “no good” “punk” interpretations in your mind.
Your thoughts influence your actions.
 
SamH said:
Because rapist are allowed to roam freely while innocent people are required to cower in their homes and cars?
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I did not say that. I see both sides are adept at the strawman. I believe about half the people hear either do not see both sides to this case, or on some political or ideological principle refuse to acknowledge there are two sides to this issue.

It is a false dichotomy, as the option of calling the police and resolving the matter without death is to be preferred to either cowering or reckless action. There may even well be other options. I was just trying to fix the analogy that presented only half the story.
 
MaryT777 said:
What if she thought he was a rapist, shot him, and he never was a rapist or suspect of a rape at all; he had the same color of skin as the man who did rape others in the neighborhood but it wasn’t the man she shot.
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What if a meteorite leveled the whole neighborhood just as GM got out of his car…
 
mek42 said:
Fact is the 911 operator told Zimmerman to stand down and stop following and such instruction was flagrantly disregarded.
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Nope, the comment from the operator was “We don’t need you to do that” It was NOT an order to stop…and such an “order” had no legal bearing…Zimmerman was still within his legal right to follow Martin if he wanted to…BUT all indications are he broke off from following Martin.
 
pnewton said:
I did not say that. I see both sides are adept at the strawman. I believe about half the people hear either do not see both sides to this case, or on some political or ideological principle refuse to acknowledge there are two sides to this issue.

It is a false dichotomy, as the option of calling the police and resolving the matter without death is to be preferred to either cowering or reckless action. There may even well be other options. I was just trying to fix the analogy that presented only half the story.
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👍
 
MaryT777 said:
I agree; now it’s best to think how could this be prevented.
Maybe just saying after you get out of your car to follow someone
I’m neighborhood watch? Are you lost? Do you need something?
Instead of “suspect” up to “no good” “punk” interpretations in your mind.
Your thoughts influence your actions.
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From what I understand, some Neighborhood Watch workers say something like:

“Welcome to the neighborhood, may I help you??” To people they are not sure belong there.

I guess if someone has a question about a person in the neighborhood, making some sort of vocal contact may be proper.

Interestingly, Rachel Jeantel claims she heard on the phone, Zimmerman say “What are you doing here?”, something like this.
 
It could have been avoided if tm just called the police.
MaryT777 said:
I agree; now it’s best to think how could this be prevented.
Maybe just saying after you get out of your car to follow someone
I’m neighborhood watch? Are you lost? Do you need something?
Instead of “suspect” up to “no good” “punk” interpretations in your mind.
Your thoughts influence your actions.
Click to expand...
 
Tucker_R said:
It could have been avoided if tm just called the police.
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If either would have* just* called the police this could have been avoided. I am sure George Zimmerman wishes he had not stepped out of the car. On the other hand, I think I have a harder time understanding why anyone would ignore Trayvon Martin’s responsibility in his own death. I call it 30/70, GZ/TM, though ultimately, God will make the final call.
 
Tucker_R said:
It could have been avoided if tm just called the police.
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Yes and if Z Wasn’t following his suspect around there’d be no need to call the police.
Plus even if you call the police; then where do you wait when someone is following you?

More ?'s.
I just realized this is the Federal Charges thread and not the open thread on the Verdict.
whoops…
I’ll post this and then head to the other thread where it’s being discussed.

Federal Charges are just re-diculous.
 
MaryT777 said:
Yes and if Z Wasn’t following his suspect around there’d be no need to call the police.
Plus even if you call the police; then where do you wait when someone is following you?

More ?'s.
I just realized this is the Federal Charges thread and not the open thread on the Verdict.
whoops…
I’ll post this and then head to the other thread where it’s being discussed.

Federal Charges are just re-diculous.
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They merged all the threads. It’s confusing when they do that.
 
When they started looking at the law, the person who initially wanted second-degree murder changed her vote to manslaughter, the juror said. Then they asked for clarification from the judge and went over it again and again. B37 said some jurors wanted to find Zimmerman guilty of something, but there was just no place to go based on the law.
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cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57593887/zimmerman-juror-half-of-us-at-first-voted-to-convict/
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Although I say the right verdict, given a jury by his peers was properly reached, you can see, there was a juror who was close to convicting him on 2nd degree murder and manslaughter. Even if Zimmerman got off, it does seem close to a manslaughter charge.

It takes two, Zimmerman helped set this whole chain of events in motion. Yes, Martin may have looked suspicious but that is still a pretty mean thing to do to a 17 year old boy. I don’t think I’d treat a 17 year old black youth in this manner though I guess GZ did nothing illegally in following him.

I think at times, with Zimmerman’s prior run-ins with the law, with his not being prosecuted per domestic violence and shoving that police officer, he was free to have his concealed and carry gun on him. If he had been taken to court on these prior issues, he may not have been able to carry that gun.
 
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