Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

[SamH]

Of course they didn’t have to settle. They may have thought GZ acted irresponsibly as well. It’s pure speculation really except the fact they did settle.

What they thought didn’t matter. Its what their insurance company thought.

 

[Dawnia]

I would rather have a police officer trained in such matters to handle “suspects” and those “up to no good.” Especially given the robberies in the neighborhood seems to have heightened Zimmerman’s agitation level. That said he has trolled around before… TM was not guilty of those robberies but he paid the price due to the profiling with his life.

The HOA had to settle the Wrongful Death suit of TM with TM’s family for their irresponsible “endorsement” of GZ in newsletters. He was not trained to get out of his
car with a gun and confront someone. That’s for the police who made it EXPLICITLY clear they don’t need citizens following people around, " We don’t NEED you to do that."
Don’t do it to begin with hopefully everyone knows now. I doubt it will happen again a young man is killed by some citizen who believes he is the law.

And none of this has anything to do with my question regarding CCWs.

 

[Robert_Sock]

vig·i·lan·te (vj-lnt)
n.

1. One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one’s own hands.
2. A member of a vigilance committee.

I don’t see anything about “One that calls the police to report suspicious behavior”.

Why was GZ carrying a concealed weapon? It’s probably not that he forgot he had it on him, as he contended, but that he was intent upon taking the law into his own hands; a vigilante.

 

[lcburgundy]

Again, my main point is that Florida state law put a concealed weapon in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal. And again, the vigilante attitude of GZ is the real blame of the shooting death of TM. To call it self defense is a misnomer.

GZ obviously did not see himself as law enforcement. There is no indication he behaved as if he had law enforcement authority. There’s no testimony anybody thought he did or that he presented himself as if he did.

I don’t see “vigilantism” inherent in either concealed carry or neighborhood watches. Again, I will agree this would have been simpler if he had locked his doors and stopped thinking or caring about his neighbors or his neighborhoods.

Do you have anything new to share or are you a cut and paste wonder?

 

[adrift]

I would rather have a police officer trained in such matters to handle “suspects” and those “up to no good.” Especially given the robberies in the neighborhood seems to have heightened Zimmerman’s agitation level. That said he has trolled around before… TM was not guilty of those robberies but he paid the price due to the profiling with his life.

He lost his life because he chose to not go to the place he was visiting and instead go back to where Zimmerman was and engage in beating him up, breaking his nose, getting him on the ground, straddling him and put Zimmerman in fear of his life.

The HOA had to settle the Wrongful Death suit of TM with TM’s family for their irresponsible “endorsement” of GZ in newsletters. He was not trained to get out of his
car with a gun and confront someone. That’s for the police who made it EXPLICITLY clear they don’t need citizens following people around, " We don’t NEED you to do that."
Don’t do it to begin with hopefully everyone knows now. I doubt it will happen again a young man is killed by some citizen who believes he is the law.

The HOA did not have to settle they chose to settle because it was cheaper. Again he was not killed by a citizen who believes he is the law but because TM decided to take the law into his hands and teach this white person a lesson. There is no evidence that Zimmerman thought he was the law. If that were true, he would have never called the police in the first place.

 

[garn9173]

Why was GZ carrying a concealed weapon? It’s probably not that he forgot he had it on him, as he contended, but that he was intent upon taking the law into his own hands; a vigilante.

I personally know several who have a license to carry a concealed weapon (I even sat in a concealed weapon course for a brief time) and I certainly wouldn’t call my friends a vigilante.

 

[fix]

Assumption that GZ went for his gun in self defense. To assume such is to insinuate that TM deserved to die.

It is not about intending to kill, but intending to stop the lethal threat. GZ wanted his attacker to stop slamming his head into cement. A very reasonable thought.

Again, my main point is that Florida state law put a concealed weapon in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal. The vigilante attitude of GZ is the real blame of the shooting death of TM. To call it self defense is a misnomer.

All nonsense. Without the gun he may be dead. What we need to control is thuggish behavior.

 

[lcburgundy]

Why was GZ carrying a concealed weapon? It’s probably not that he forgot he had it on him, as he contended, but that he was intent upon taking the law into his own hands; a vigilante.

Sorry, facts not in evidence in this case or among legal concealed carriers in general.

 

[MaryT777]

vig·i·lan·te (vj-lnt)
n.

1. One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one’s own hands.
2. A member of a vigilance committee.

I don’t see anything about “One that calls the police to report suspicious behavior”.

Number 1 applies to Zimmerman.

 

[fix]

Why was GZ carrying a concealed weapon? It’s probably not that he forgot he had it on him, as he contended, but that he was intent upon taking the law into his own hands; a vigilante.

No, he was intending to protect himself from violent men who kill.

 

[Cider]

Why was GZ carrying a concealed weapon? It’s probably not that he forgot he had it on him, as he contended, but that he was intent upon taking the law into his own hands; a vigilante.

Your bias against gun owners is well established. You keep repeating it over and over again. We get it.

 

[MaryT777]

No, he was intending to protect himself from violent men who kill.

No he wanted to be a police officer and the gun helps the cause for him.

 

[fix]

No he wanted to be a police officer and the gun helps the cause for him.

The gun saved his life.

 

[Robert_Sock]

It is not about intending to kill, but intending to stop the lethal threat. GZ wanted his attacker to stop slamming his head into cement. A very reasonable thought.

All nonsense. Without the gun he may be dead. What we need to control is thuggish behavior.

All speculation. Prove that this is what happened. Bottom line: We do not know what happened, but we do know that Florida state law put a gun into the hands of a amateur law enforcement personal.

 

[LisaA]

Why was GZ carrying a concealed weapon? It’s probably not that he forgot he had it on him, as he contended, but that he was intent upon taking the law into his own hands; a vigilante.

Honestly your entire premise is based upon your bias against guns. I think this must have to do with where/how you were raised. I see this attitude in Left and Right coast urban dwellers for the most part. “Guns are evil” is the mantra. The facts don’t matter…facts such as the REDUCTION in overall crime and gun crime, the higher incidence of gun crimes in areas where guns are most restricted.

I grew up in a rural area and although my parents were bleeding heart liberal Democrats they were not fools. We had several guns in our home, mostly for hunting but also for protection and not necessarily against human predators but against animals that indeed did attack and kill livestock. I grew up thinking of guns as a tool for self defense and hunting. I no longer own a gun, I no longer engage in target practice. But I don’t see guns or gun owners as evil people bent on vigilante style justice.

Will you answer one question? Why do you think GZ was a VIGILANTE? He did not attack Martin, try to stop him although observing him behaving suspiciously. Pulling his gun was not the first act when he encountered Martin.

If GZ had wanted to “gun down an innocent kid” why did he wait until Martin was beating his head on the cement before pulling his weapon?

Nothing in your scenario comports with ANY facts! Why do you persist in this fairy tale spun of anti-gun emotions rather than what happened to the best of our knowledge?

Lisa

 

[fix]

All speculation. Prove that this is what happened. Bottom line: We do not know what happened, but we do know that Florida state law put a gun into the hands of a amateur law enforcement personal.

It is not speculation. His head was injured. He screamed. The gun was fired by the man on the bottom. He was pinned and being violently attacked. All true.

 

[Robert_Sock]

The gun saved his life.

The gun is what caused GZ to follow TM. The gun, being in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal, is what caused the whole thing to go down that dreadful night.

 

[LisaA]

All speculation. Prove that this is what happened. Bottom line: We do not know what happened, but we do know that Florida state law put a gun into the hands of a amateur law enforcement personal.

No. George Zimmerman purchased a gun. He went through the background checks as required by state law. READ THEM Robert. They are QUITE stringent. He was not an amateur “law enforcement” official, he was an American citizen on his way to buy groceries.

Good grief!

Lisa

 

[styrgwillidar]

I don’t think that the restraining order was dropped. It was granted to his fiancée who alleged domestic violence. Why would a judge stigmatise a man with a charge of domestic violence unless there was something to it? And does anyone have to undergo rehabilitation? they never asked me to do such. Why would a judge request a totally innocent person to undergo rehab treatment unless there were some reason for it? Since he had to undergo rehab treatment and his fiancée was granted a restraining order against him on the charge of domestic violence, it seems naïve to think that there was nothing to it and that he was totally innocent of all the charges against him.

You’re not serious, right? You do realize this happens all the time in court? Its extremely common for women to allege domestic violence? It gives them the advantege in custody, amount they’ll be awarded? If the woman is vindictive, and believe me many are, it can screw up a mans job (it can affect their securty/bond rating), mess up their reputation with friends and neighbors? Does it surprise you that some women would lie? In the emotional situations of divorce you think that never happens-- buddy it happens a lot.

Naive. Its naive to think that our judicial system, particularly at the lower levels is completely fair and just. You’re questioning a high level case with incredible national scrutiny, yet now contend lower level CHARGES, much less convictions are flawless.

Why would a judge issue them? In most jurisdictions they’ll issue a temporary restraining order simply on an allegation. Why? Well, it doesn’t cost anything, its the prudent thing to do, if the person who has the restraining order against them objects, they can contest it at the hearing to determine if it will be longer.

In the case where both parties file? Easy for the judge— hey you are both asking for the same thing, to stay away from each other. GRANTED!!! Bailiff, lets’ get some lunch.

Would it surprise you that some folks look at the cost of defending against a charge which will cost 1,000s of dollars and may take years, and you still may lose, against a rehab program that supposedly will do the same thing, only cost a couple hundred and be over with in perhaps a few months with a guarantee of no felony conviction? Do the math, what’s the smart call? How much money do you have? How much faith do you have in all juries?

Hear about the high school football player who was accused of rape, yet completely innocent? He took a plea deal because of his risk assessment. A he said she said case. Yet, if the jury ruled against him he would have gone to jail for decades. So he chose to plea and ‘only’ do a couple of years. Yet the woman had lied just so she could sue the school. She won too.ETA: actually, the district paid her off, I don’t think they went to court on it…

 

[LisaA]

The gun is what caused GZ to follow TM. The gun, being in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal, is what caused the whole thing to go down that dreadful night.

And you know this because? Despite all evidence to the contrary? You know GZ planned to hunt down Martin and shoot him because?

My goodness you have incredible powers of perception and give much credence to the theory that the gun did it…good grief.

Lisa