Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

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MaryT777 said:
No he wanted to be a police officer and the gun helps the cause for him.
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Since when did wanting to enter law enforcement become a source for pejorative statements? Did it become a dishonorable occupation at some point and I just missed it? Certainly puts a different spin on kids who say they want to be police officers when they grow up!
 
Robert_Sock said:
The gun is what caused GZ to follow TM. The gun, being in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal, is what caused the whole thing to go down that dreadful night.
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This is bizarre. The gun did not cause him to follow. The suspicious behavior caused him to follow and apparently his suspicion was correct because reasonable people do not attack violently without provocation.
 
fix said:
It is not speculation. His head was injured. He screamed. The gun was fired by the man on the bottom. He was pinned and being violently attacked. All true.
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Nobody on the defense even began to prove this. GZ head being injured could easily have been caused in self defense on the part of TM.
 
LisaA said:
And you know this because? Despite all evidence to the contrary? You know GZ planned to hunt down Martin and shoot him because?

My goodness you have incredible powers of perception and give much credence to the theory that the gun did it…good grief.

Lisa
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Thats one theory.
 
hmmm:We simply do not know everything ,perhaps one day , if we are still concerned about the wrong in the world, it will all be revealed to us by the one who really knows , It is time to pray now and start hoping for the good. Peace, Carlan
 
One guy calls the police. One guy calls a girl and talks about gay rape and crack-ahs when he could simply call the cops.

Now you want us to believe the guy on the phone with the girl who was on top of the other guy bashing his head in while the other guy screams is in some way the real victim? That is precious.
 
Robert_Sock said:
The gun is what caused GZ to follow TM.
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Source of this claim?
Robert_Sock said:
. The gun, being in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal, is what caused the whole thing to go down that dreadful night.
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Are you saying a trained officer would not have shot a person beating his head into concrete? Are officers trained to not shoot people that are beating them into the ground? Any source for that claim?

I will concede that a LEO may have been more likely to miss Martin even at point blank range due to many being notoriously bad shots.
 
styrgwillidar said:
You’re not serious, right? You do realize this happens all the time in court? Its extremely common for women to allege domestic violence? It gives them the advantege in custody, amount they’ll be awarded? If the woman is vindictive, and believe me many are, it can screw up a mans job (it can affect their securty/bond rating), mess up their reputation with friends and neighbors? Does it surprise you that some women would lie? In the emotional situations of divorce you think that never happens-- buddy it happens a lot.

Naive. Its naive to think that our judicial system, particularly at the lower levels is completely fair and just. You’re questioning a high level case with incredible national scrutiny, yet now contend lower level CHARGES, much less convictions are flawless.

Why would a judge issue them? In most jurisdictions they’ll issue a temporary restraining order simply on an allegation. Why? Well, it doesn’t cost anything, its the prudent thing to do, if the person who has the restraining order against them objects, they can contest it at the hearing to determine if it will be longer.

In the case where both parties file? Easy for the judge— hey you are both asking for the same thing, to stay away from each other. GRANTED!!! Bailiff, lets’ get some lunch.

Would it surprise you that some folks look at the cost of defending against a charge which will cost 1,000s of dollars and may take years, and you still may lose, against a rehab program that supposedly will do the same thing, only cost a couple hundred and be over with in perhaps a few months with a guarantee of no felony conviction? Do the math, what’s the smart call? How much money do you have? How much faith do you have in all juries?

Hear about the high school football player who was accused of rape, yet completely innocent? He took a plea deal because of his risk assessment. A he said she said case. Yet, if the jury ruled against him he would have gone to jail for decades. So he chose to plea and ‘only’ do a couple of years. Yet the women had lied just so she could sue the school. She won too…
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👍 Thank you. Facts are those pesky things getting in the way when someone has an axe to grind. But facts do not go away do they?

Again experience with law enforcement and the legal system supports your statements. The courts are now used to mediate lovers’ spats, to wreak havoc on a former lover, to gain advantage in a divorce.

It’s easy to charge but hard to convict. And your point about the irony of the anti GZ cadre fully believing the veracity of charges that were dropped but disbelieving a high profile case, with TVs in the courtroom so we could watch every excruciating minute of it. But somehow despite all of this scrutiny, the defense is not to be believed? God help us if court becomes an ideological battlefield instead of dispensing justice.

Even the Martin supporters agree that the CASE was tried fairly and the the verdict comported with the laws.

They are just mad and/or taking advantage of a crisis to gin up division and hatred.
Lisa
 
fix said:
This is bizarre. The gun did not cause him to follow. The suspicious behavior caused him to follow and apparently his suspicion was correct because reasonable people do not attack violently without provocation.
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What you say applies to TM acting in self defense as well.

Again, my main point is that Florida state law put a concealed weapon in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal.
 
Robert_Sock said:
What you say applies to TM acting in self defense as well. Again, my main point is that Florida state law put a concealed weapon in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal.
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Your point is absurd and well pointless. The gun saved his life. There is no evidence GZ was at fault. There is evidence that TM violently attacked a man without cause.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Nobody on the defense even began to prove this. GZ head being injured could easily have been caused in self defense on the part of TM.
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Yes defying the very laws of GRAVITY, Martin’s shirt was inches from his chest as he lay on his back, being beaten by GZ…that is truly amazing? After shooting Martin in cold blood, GZ bashes his head against the cement and for good measure breaks his own nose…

Lisa
 
Robert_Sock said:
What you say applies to TM acting in self defense as well.

Again, my main point is that Florida state law put a concealed weapon in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal.
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Do you have something to back this up or just opinion? I certainly don’t view neighborhood watch “amateur law enforcement”.
 
LisaA said:
Yes defying the very laws of GRAVITY, Martin’s shirt was inches from his chest as he lay on his back, being beaten by GZ…that is truly amazing? After shooting Martin in cold blood, GZ bashes his head against the cement and for good measure breaks his own nose…

Lisa
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It is like arguing with a robot.
 
Robert_Sock said:
All speculation. Prove that this is what happened. Bottom line: We do not know what happened, but we do know that Florida state law put a gun into the hands of a amateur law enforcement personal.
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Robert, the defense did prove it to the jury’s satisfaction. Self-defense is an affirmative defense to the charges. Ergo, the jury agreed that it was juistifable homicide.

Now, we can not know for certain exactly how the initial meeting went other than there was a verbal exchange (two witnesses), we can except Jeantels testimony on the words.

But, we know several witnesses described the physical confrontation with one man on top of another raining blows down on the man on the bottom. The closest witness testified that Zimmerman was the man on the bottom and screaming for help. Tapes and witnesses indicate this screaming went on for an extended period of time— with no one responding to the cries for help. No one came to the aid of the man on the bottom.
 
styrgwillidar said:
Robert, the defense did prove it to the jury’s satisfaction. Self-defense is an affirmative defense to the charges. Ergo, the jury agreed that it was juistifable homicide.

Now, we can not know for certainty exactly how the initial meeting went other than there was a verbal exchange (two witnesses), we can except Jeantels testimony on the words.

But, we know several witnesses described the physical confrontation with one man on top of another raining blows down on the man on the bottom. The closest witness testified that Zimmerman was the man on the bottom and screaming for help. Tapes and witnesses indicate this screaming went on for an extended period of time— with no one responding to the cries for help. No one came to the aid of the man on the bottom.
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While one man is beaten without mercy, no one comes to his aid and people here want to blame the victim. Very Sad.
 
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