Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

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styrgwillidar said:
Retreat, avoidance is the preferred option. However, the issue really arose because inevitably in self-defense cases the monday morning quarterbacking of whether a person could have retreated or not varied considerably from jury to jury.

A woman in a parking lot being told she could have ‘jumped’ over one of the cars next to her. Or folks being told they could have turned and run away from an attacker. Well, how do you know you’re faster? You’re vulnerable with your back turned etc. etc. etc.
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Good point. I agree. Prevention is the best option.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Perhaps GZ pulled his gun out and a fight pursued. TM slamming GZ head to the ground could easily have been in self defense.
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That doesn’t sound like a plausible scenario to me at all. In that scenario, Zimmerman would have pulled his gun, then Martin punched him in the nose, knocked him down on his back, straddled him, punched him some more and banged his head on concrete before Zimmerman fired his weapon. Plausible? I think not. To me, the plausible ending if Zimmerman had first pulled his gun out, Zimmerman would not have had a mark on him.
 
Tucker_R said:
I think I read that somewhere where the HMA shelled out $1 mil. Nothing like a money grab. Disgusting.
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Well, wait a minute. If you truly felt you’d been wronged, what else can you have the legal system do to punish those you think wronged you? There aren’t many options.

The folks suing weren’t there either, to know what happened in the incident. They were in pain. I don’t blame them for suing, it was up to the HMA to fight it if they didn’t think it was right.
 
CantareVivace said:
I find it disgusting how racism got into this. Clearly not many read or viewed the trial and evidence. The verdict was just. THIS WAS A DAVID AND GOLIATH CASE. David won! I wish them peace. Although I have the feeling that Zimmerman won’t get peace. I pray that something good can happen to both families. My heart is broken.
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I’m sorry that analogy doesn’t work.

David didn’t have a gun - he had a slingshot.

David was younger than Goliath.

David didn’t go looking for Goliath

Goliath was armed and looking for a fight.
 
livingwordunity said:
Or perhaps it was because Martin was a racist (the “creepy cracker” racist comment he made) and being high on marijuana (the autopsy results found THC in his system), he wanted to test out his MMA fighting skills. Just as some whites are racist, so are some blacks. And blacks who are racist are known to beat up random whites they see. I know because it happened to me when I was a kid. I’m only half-white, but they mistook me for white. I used to know of some all black neighborhoods that if a white person walked through it was a guarantee they would get jumped and beat up just for being white.
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Blacks that are racist are known to be up random whites? Do you have a verifiable link to stats on how often this happens? Blacks just beating up random whites? Good grief
 
coachkfan1 said:
Loitering is not a death penalty offense.
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But a physical attack can easily be interpreted as a threat to one’s life, as the court has decided. No one is justified in physically attacking someone for following them or for being white.
 
Armed adult stalked unarmed teen and killed him after a confrontation that could have been avoided if Z had let the real police do their job.
 
gracepoole said:
Did you miss this earlier?

io9.com/disturbing-chart-shows-rise-in-justified-killings-of-773490798
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Yes, I did miss it. Perhaps you missed this from a link in the above article?

"…So the disparity is clear. But the figures don’t yet prove bias. As Roman points out, the data doesn’t show the circumstances behind the killings, for example whether the people who were shot were involved in home invasions or in a confrontation on the street.

Additionally, there are far fewer white-on-black shootings in the FBI data — only 25 total in both the Stand Your Ground and non-Stand Your Ground states. In fact, the small sample size is one of the reasons Roman conducted a regression analysis, which determines the statistical likelihood of whether the killings will be found justifiable."…

Source link:
Is There Racial Bias in “Stand Your Ground” Laws?
pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/criminal-justice/is-there-racial-bias-in-stand-your-ground-laws/
 
Weak… very weak. Anyone loitering in front of a house thats not thiers isn’t right… and like a thug means pounding his head into the cement… take race out of it and you will see it. Just because tm was black and Z was not does not automatically make tm the victim. The victim won in this case… as it should be.
coachkfan1 said:
Acting like a thug? You mean being black in America?
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If Zimmerman had been black none of us would have ever heard of Trayvon Martin.
 
gracepoole said:
If he had retreated, how could possibly lethal force be used against him?
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Zimmerman stopped following when the dispatcher said, “We don’t need you to do that”. Based on Martin telling Jeantel he’d lost ‘the guy’. The dispatchers’ impressions on Zimmerman’s voice, the comment they always get away, and the shift to discussing where Zimmerman would meet the police who were on the way.

When Martin approach Z and initiated the conversation with, “Why are you following me?” there was still no threat to retreat from. For either party. Not illegal for Martin to have been walking around, or not go home, or come up to Zimmerman in a public space. Not illegal for Z to be walking around his neighborhood, or to have called the police on someone who he thought was behaving suspiciously. Not illegal for him to respond with “What are you doing around here?” No threat to either party, no illegal action.

I’ve been in strange neighborhoods and approached and asked what I’m doing there. I didn’t think the person was trying to be a cop, or detain me. Natural curiosity? Maybe thought I was lost and needed help? Certainly didn’t see it as a threat.

The threat occurs when someone takes a threatening action or makes a credible verbal threat. “Get out of here or I’ll beat you!” (a 5 yr old saying that certainly isn’t a credible threat). Now, SYG would indicate you don’t have to run away-- probably the prudent thing to do, but… Or if someone takes a swing at you with a fist or a bat, SYG would again provide you could respond with force even if there’s a clear path to run away. Again, prudence may dictate… but it keeps from second guessing your decision that you are too slow, arthritic, weak, to successfully retreat.
 
coachkfan1 said:
Armed adult stalked unarmed teen and killed him after a confrontation that could have been avoided if Z had let the real police do their job.
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Martin didn’t have to physically attack Zimmerman. Zimmerman wasn’t breaking any law in what he did, as the court decided.
 
tm was bigger and in much better shape… thus the David and Goliath analogy satnds… IMO anyways.
triumphguy said:
I’m sorry that analogy doesn’t work.

David didn’t have a gun - he had a slingshot.

David was younger than Goliath.

David didn’t go looking for Goliath

Goliath was armed and looking for a fight.
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