Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

[Cider]

The HOA had to settle the Wrongful Death suit of TM with TM’s family for their irresponsible “endorsement” of GZ in newsletters.

The HOA didn’t HAVE to settle. They chose to. Mostly likely because it would cost more to pay for the lawyers to defend them than the 1 million dollars that the family wanted. So the Martin family got a million dollars and and the HOA admitted no wrong doing as part of the settlement. By the way, settlements are very common, people sue for all kinds of things and get settlements because the cost benefit ratio makes it the cheaper way to go. Especially when insurance companies are usually the ones paying the bill.

 

[Carlan]

’

That someone disagrees with you does not mean they don’t have the facts.
They may have the same facts and simply disagree with some of your perception of the facts. Zimmerman was the initial aggressor.

There are many that do not feel Zimmerman in an way was responsible for how this ended
and some disagree with that. It’s really not as black and white as some make this out to be.

Ah yes, you are wrong and I am unquestionably correct ???

 

[SwizzleStick]

Very true. The idea that this attacker was some innocent kid is absurd. Innocent kids do not have his history, do not have drugs in them, and do not talk on the phone with a girl and discuss “crack ahs” and gay rape when he should be on the phone with 911.

I don’t know if I believe the discussion about gay rape because Jeantel has not been a credible witness. However, if I were to accept that new revelation as true, I do have to ask again if Martin was scared that gay rape was a possibility, why didn’t he just run away? Hide and stay hidden in the dark? Go home? Go to any home with a light on and ask for help? Call the police with the phone in his hand or ask his friend to do so, rather than just keep talking with his friend?

 

[maryjk]

I would rather have a police officer trained in such matters to handle “suspects” and those “up to no good.” Especially given the robberies in the neighborhood seems to have heightened Zimmerman’s agitation level. That said he has trolled around before… TM was not guilty of those robberies but he paid the price due to the profiling with his life.

Do you have a link showing who they arrested for those robberies?

The HOA had to settle the Wrongful Death suit of TM with TM’s family for their irresponsible “endorsement” of GZ in newsletters. He was not trained to get out of his
car with a gun and confront someone. That’s for the police who made it EXPLICITLY clear they don’t need citizens following people around, " We don’t NEED you to do that."
Don’t do it to begin with hopefully everyone knows now. I doubt it will happen again a young man is killed by some citizen who believes he is the law.

Mary, are you reading the responses to your posts?

People have posted many times, that no one, Zimmerman included, is required to follow the instructions of a dispatcher. Zimmerman was speaking on the phone to a dispatcher. In addition to the fact that he got out of the car to get an address. He also claims, with evidence backing him, that he DIDN’T follow Martin.

On the other hand, pounding someone’s head against the pavement IS against the law.

 

[estesbob]

I see the thread has now moved from discussing the verdict to sliming Zimmerman and questioning the faith of anyone who agrees with the verdict. I suspect this thread is not long for this world

 

[Robert_Sock]

Kinda hard for Zimmerman to remember that when he’s having his head bashed in by Treyvon. The entire situation is tragic, but in the end, the jury got the verdict right, espeically when the prosecution’s witness’ were helping the defense.

Again, Florida state law put a concealed weapon in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal. And again, I’m talking about Catholic virtues in this thread. Catholics ought to be far more compassionate of the shooting of TM, instead of insinuating that he deserved it.

 

[lcburgundy]

I would rather have a police officer trained in such matters to handle “suspects” and those “up to no good.” Especially given the robberies in the neighborhood seems to have heightened Zimmerman’s agitation level. That said he has trolled around before… TM was not guilty of those robberies but he paid the price due to the profiling with his life.

Police are largely clean up crews and investigatory agencies after the fact. They cannot defend you. They very rarely respond to live crime scenes. I find it amazing how far people come in life and think the police are there to actually protect them.

 

[fix]

I don’t know if I believe the discussion about gay rape because Jeantel has not been a credible witness. However, if I were to accept that new revelation as true, I do have to ask again if Martin was scared that gay rape was a possibility, why didn’t he just run away? Hide and stay hidden in the dark? Go home? Go to any home with a light on and ask for help? Call the police with the phone in his hand or ask his friend to do so, rather than just keep talking with his friend?

Yes and my point is he has a cell phone and did not call the police. Who did call the police? GZ did! It is really too much to swallow.

 

[maryjk]

I don’t know if I believe the discussion about gay rape because Jeantel has not been a credible witness. However, if I were to accept that new revelation as true, I do have to ask again if Martin was scared that gay rape was a possibility, why didn’t he just run away? Hide and stay hidden in the dark? Go home? Go to any home with a light on and ask for help? Call the police with the phone in his hand or ask his friend to do so, rather than just keep talking with his friend?

Or go back to the store? He knew there was someone there.

 

[lcburgundy]

Again, Florida state law put a concealed weapon in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal. And again, I’m talking about Catholic virtues in this thread. Catholics ought to be far more compassionate of the shooting of TM, instead of insinuating that he deserved it.

Who insinuated or stated that he “deserved” to be shot? Name names Bob.

By the way, people who believe in self-defense and the legal system’s process are not those people.

 

[SamH]

Again, Florida state law put a concealed weapon in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal. And again, I’m talking about Catholic virtues in this thread. Catholics ought to be far more compassionate of the shooting of TM, instead of insinuating that he deserved it.

And that gun probably saved his life.

Why do you keep questioning the Catholic beliefs of those that differ from your opinion?

 

[fix]

Again, Florida state law put a concealed weapon in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal. And again, I’m talking about Catholic virtues in this thread. Catholics ought to be far more compassionate of the shooting of TM, instead of insinuating that he deserved it.

Just to be clear about Catholic teaching here. If one causes their own death by acting violently towards another that person is responsible for their death and summoning themselves into eternity. Now, we cannot judge any particular soul but we ought to be very clear about this. The one who defends himself is not guilty for the loss of the other persons life. The one who dies is responsible.

No one has said anyone deserves to be killed. But, to imply that we ought to think GZ is morally guilty is way off base.

 

[SamH]

The jury made the “right decision” in the George Zimmerman murder trial, former President Jimmy Carter said Tuesday.

“I think the jury made the right decision based on the evidence presented, because the prosecution inadvertently set the standard so high that the jury had to be convinced that it was a deliberate act by Zimmerman that he was not at all defending himself, and so forth,” Carter told Atlanta news channel WXIA. “It’s not a moral question, it’s a legal question and the American law requires that the jury listens to the evidence presented.”

Read more: politico.com/story/2013/07/jimmy-carter-george-zimmerman-verdict-94320.html#ixzz2ZJO0mL7U

This makes me question my position on this subject more than anything posted by the people here that think the jury got it wrong.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Yep another instance of facts getting in the way of a good theory
Lisa

So true. Sigh.

 

[stevegravy]

This makes me question my position on this subject more than anything posted by the people here that think the jury got it wrong.

I am with you on that one. I have to rethink everything right now!

 

[LisaA]

Police are largely clean up crews and investigatory agencies after the fact. They cannot defend you. They very rarely respond to live crime scenes. I find it amazing how far people come in life and think the police are there to actually protect them.

Absolutely spot on. As a member of a family with several law enforcement officers, the reality is that the police RARELY arrive during the commission of a crime. Their main function, as a presence, is to deter crime. It is clear that knowing there is a "cop on the beat’ reduces crime, drug dealing, loitering and other societal ills. The second function is as you said, clean up, investigation and hoping to solve the crime that has already occurred.

Also police RARELY pull much less discharge their weapons. Nor do those with CCW. Again they are a deterrant. No matter how the anti-gun crowd wants to spin it, statistically the CCW cadre is LESS likely to be involved in crime, much less a shooting, than even the cadre of law enforcement officers.

That being said, no, law enforcement does not want a Charles Bronson styled vigilante on patrol. They want vigilance by residents in noticing what is unusual in behavior, in persons, in activities. All evidence points to Zimmerman doing exactly as he was instructed in reporting Martin and standing down when told to do so. The investigating officer, a PROSECUTION witness said he believed Zimmerman’s testimony and that it comported with what facts and forensic evidence was available. But hey, what’s a professional law enforcement when we have speculation and supposition for a better story

As to the settlement, agree totally with the above. If the HOA had decided to wait for the criminal trial to conclude they would have run up hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees. Further when one has insurance they subrogate their rights to the insurance company. The INSURANCE company makes the decision whether to settle. I know this also from being in the medical field. While the doctor can weigh in on the subject, if his carrier wants to settle a ‘nuisance’ suit, he cannot stop the process.

Lisa

 

[Robert_Sock]

Just to be clear about Catholic teaching here. If one causes their own death by acting violently towards another that person is responsible for their death and summoning themselves into eternity. Now, we cannot judge any particular soul but we ought to be very clear about this. The one who defends himself is not guilty for the loss of the other persons life. The one who dies is responsible.

No one has said anyone deserves to be killed. But, to imply that we ought to think GZ is morally guilty is way off base.

Assumption that GZ went for his gun in self defense. To assume such is to insinuate that TM deserved to die. Again, my main point is that Florida state law put a concealed weapon in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal. The vigilante attitude of GZ is the real blame of the shooting death of TM. To call it self defense is a misnomer.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Actually Martin asked Zimmerman a question.

Okay. I stand corrected. I think it was Jeantel’s testimony where she said something along these lines: “Why are you following me?” (Martin) “What are you doing up here?” or similar (Zimmerman). I didn’t find her very credible, so I didn’t put much stock in any of her testimony or pay much attention to her.

 

[SamH]

Okay. I stand corrected. I think it was Jeantel’s testimony where she said something along these lines: “Why are you following me?” (Martin) “What are you doing up here?” or similar (Zimmerman). I didn’t find her very credible, so I didn’t put much stock in any of her testimony or pay much attention to her.

I thought it was “Do you have a problem?”

 

[SamH]

Assumption that GZ went for his gun in self defense. To assume such is to insinuate that TM deserved to die. Again, my main point is that Florida state law put a concealed weapon in the hands of an amateur law enforcement personal. The vigilante attitude of GZ is the real blame of the shooting death of TM. To call it self defense is a misnomer.

The facts, the law, the eyewitnesses and the jury say you are wrong.