Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

  • Thread starter Thread starter sweetcharity
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
This certainly has been a very interesting case, and still is. The prosecutor has said on TV that Zimmerman is a murdered though a jury said he was not guilty, and too her reputation is under serious attack. This whole thing brings out many things about human nature, good and bad, when it comes to all the people involved.
Regarding the last several posts, Zimmerman has said that Martin jumped out of the bushes and attacked him.
Obviously, it is apparent now that it would have been better if Zimmerman had laid off. But he was not legally obligated to do what the dispatcher said, and so he could not be said to have disobeyed her–only that he did not follow her advice.
 
LisaA said:
I’m not sure Zimmerman initiated the verbal exchange but even if he did, Martin was acting suspiciously in an area where there had apparently been a series of recent break ins. Surely you have read or heard how his behavior was described…someone he didn’t recognize, wearing a hoodie, wandering around in the rain, appearing to be looking into homes, not seeming to be proceeding anywhere particularly. Quite honestly many states have laws against what Martin was doing…at best loitering and at worst perhaps casing homes for a break in.

BTW before you go into Hoodie Mania take a look at the video of Martin in the store shortly before he was killed. Wearing the hoodie inside, it obscured his face but the clerk could see him in the light and probably judged him as just a harmless kid with the “uniform” of teenagers everywhere. However it also made him difficult to recognize (hence my belief that Zimmerman profiled his BEHAVIOR not his skin color). You really could not see clearly and according to Zimmerman’s testimony, Martin walked toward his truck before deciding the leave the scene. I think all of this comports to the conclusion of the jury that Zimmerman didn’t see a black teenager but a tall male in a hoodie…IOW not a racial profile but a behavior profile.

As a concerned citizen, as a Neighborhood Watch member he certainly had the right to ask what this stranger was doing in the neighborhood. It was quite small and likely Zimmerman knew many of the residents at least by sight.

And Martin had the right to tell him to go to h**l if he wanted.

He didn’t have to start a physical fight. Again all evidence points to Martin’s ability to escape, to go home, to call 911 to have Jeantel call 911.

All of the evidence I have heard supports the jury’s conclusion. But if you (not you personally but others) insist that if you carry a gun you are de facto guilty of WHATEVER happens, I doubt if anything will convince you otherwise.
Click to expand...
Martin’s state must not have any such laws that his behavior was loitering etc or what you suggest. That was never brought into the trial. How is one supposed to act when they are being followed? The police officer stated he was doing nothing to warrant suspicion.
If his state does have those laws let us know what they are. If he was breaking the law then the police I would think would have said he was breaking the law at the time.
Still Zimmerman cannot detain and arrest as a citizen.

Zimmerman LIKELY knew many of the residents by sight? That was not in the trial either; that’s your opinion.

He had the right to ask what he was doing in the neighborhood but he could have at least identified himself as neighborhood watch; that might have helped diffuse the situation.

He had no right to label him a suspect whatsoever.

I’m not sure what hoodie mania is.
 
Robert_Sock said:
But TM’s body was found some 53 yards from GZ’s truck, suggesting that he disobeyed the dispatcher and followed TM anyway.
Click to expand...
Or as he said, he started to follow Martin who had disappeared, quit following him and continued to talk to the dispatcher including saying “they always get away…” not that he was continuing to follow him or look for him. If you look at the map you can see that instead of following Martin he heads in a perpendicular direction toward the street to get the address. Note that Martin has NEVER been seen on the street that Zimmerman approached so his story makes sense. He turns around, heads for his truck and is confronted by Martin.

LOOK AT THE MAP. They crossed paths after Martin doubled back and returned.

The following was done at the outset as you can see by looking at the map. After the call, Zimmerman went in another direction from Martin.

Lisa
 
MaryT777 said:
Martin’s state must not have any such laws that his behavior was loitering etc or what you suggest. That was never brought into the trial. How is one supposed to act when they are being followed? The police officer stated he was doing nothing to warrant suspicion.
If his state does have those laws let us know what they are. If he was breaking the law then the police I would think would have said he was breaking the law at the time.
Still Zimmerman cannot detain and arrest as a citizen.

Zimmerman LIKELY knew many of the residents by sight? That was not in the trial either; that’s your opinion.

He had the right to ask what he was doing in the neighborhood but he could have at least identified himself as neighborhood watch; that might have helped diffuse the situation.

He had no right to label him a suspect whatsoever.

I’m not sure what hoodie mania is.
Click to expand...
You continue to conflate two completely different issues and bring in totally irrelevant issues as well as setting a few strawmen ablaze.

Clearly you don’t bother to read the posts that explain every one of your supposed points.
I am not wasting any more time on repeating the same information.

Lisa
 
liturgyluver said:
This case has really opened up sore divisions.

Let me say first off that as far as I can see, the evidence just isn’t there to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman provoked or intended the confrontation, in which case he must be found not guilty (as indeed was the decision of the jury).

But, and it’s a big but, it seems very dangerous to go after someone with a gun simply because they are acting suspiciously. The question then becomes, as I think Robert was suggesting earlier, whether Zimmerman’s pursuit of Martin was simply foolish or if it was tinged with an element of anger or something more. Why did he not follow the the neighbourhood watch guidelines which say Watch members :

should not attempt to apprehend a person committing a crime or to investigate a suspicious activity.” It should be emphasized to members of patrols, the materials state, that “they do not possess police power and they shall not carry weapons.” The consequences of not following the guidelines are severe, the manual states: “Each member is liable as an individual for civil and criminal charges should he exceed his authority

Zimmerman said that Martin jumped him. This may or may not be true - there’s no other evidence either way. The other possibility is that Zimmerman saw Martin and challenged him. Again, no evidence.

From a legal point of view Zimmerman may be not guilty - from a moral point of view, his actions in not letting the law enforcement agencies deal with the incident led to the later struggle, and he must bear some responsibility for this terrible incident.
Click to expand...
It seems that each community has a different set of rules for neighborhood watch guidlines note it says guidlines not absolute law.

Here is a manual from Sanford

I found on that web site the medical records of Zimmerman
 
mdgspencer said:
This certainly has been a very interesting case, and still is. The prosecutor has said on TV that Zimmerman is a murdered though a jury said he was not guilty, and too her reputation is under serious attack. This whole thing brings out many things about human nature, good and bad, when it comes to all the people involved.
Regarding the last several posts, Zimmerman has said that Martin jumped out of the bushes and attacked him.
Obviously, it is apparent now that it would have been better if Zimmerman had laid off. But he was not legally obligated to do what the dispatcher said, and so he could not be said to have disobeyed her–only that he did not follow her advice.
Click to expand...
👍

The Prosecutor was way out of line to call him a murderer. Good point about human nature good and bad. First time I’ve heard that mentioned

How close the bushes were to the crime scene was at issue in the trial. Also Zimmermann could not note If TM came from behind or front of him.

Probably best to take the dispatcher’s advice for the safety of everyone.

Well said.

The bushes are controversial.
 
BarbG said:
I certainly haven’t read all the pages on this site, but I have my own ideas about the verdict – frankly, I would have hated to be on the Zimmerman jury. I do think that Zimmerman did not have to kill Martin – since he had a gun he could have shot him someplace to stop him from what he was doing but not in the head where it certainly killed him. It’s been a long time since I was on a jury and I don’t remember what the crime was BUT when we got back in the jury room I couldn’t believe that some of the jurors didn’t think a crime had even been committed – guess they thought the DA’s office had nothing better to do.
Click to expand...
Yes it would be difficult to be on the jury. The juror that was planning to write a book with her attorney husband about whey they had to acquit Zimmerman has changed her mind for what appeared to be safety reasons. She said isolated she had no clue the outcry
this verdict would bring.
 
LisaA said:
Or as he said, he started to follow Martin who had disappeared, quit following him and continued to talk to the dispatcher including saying “they always get away…” not that he was continuing to follow him or look for him. If you look at the map you can see that instead of following Martin he heads in a perpendicular direction toward the street to get the address. Note that Martin has NEVER been seen on the street that Zimmerman approached so his story makes sense. He turns around, heads for his truck and is confronted by Martin.

LOOK AT THE MAP. They crossed paths after Martin doubled back and returned.

The following was done at the outset as you can see by looking at the map. After the call, Zimmerman went in another direction from Martin.

Lisa
Click to expand...
Sounds like everything you’re saying is from GZ’s perspective. Too bad we don’t have TM’s perspective on things. Also, TM had to double-back a little in order to ask GZ why he was following him.
 
ringil said:
And I ask myself why the intense interest into this case on a Catholic forum.

I suspect it is pre-occupation with race among Caucasians.
Click to expand...
Or, perhaps justice rather than race since the case really had nothing to do with race, well, except for the race-baiters who think it is all about race?
 
liturgyluver said:
But, and it’s a big but, it seems very dangerous to go after someone with a gun simply because they are acting suspiciously.
Click to expand...
Just because you have a CCW and carry your gun on your person, his was holstered on his waist band of his pants, does not mean that because you reported someone suspicious and monitored what they were doing that you are “going after them with a gun”. There is no evidence that Zimmerman was stalking Martin with his gun drawn.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Sounds like everything you’re saying is from GZ’s perspective. Too bad we don’t have TM’s perspective on things. Also, TM had to double-back a little in order to ask GZ why he was following him.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes::whacky::hypno::juggle:
 
Robert_Sock said:
Sounds like everything you’re saying is from GZ’s perspective. Too bad we don’t have TM’s perspective on things. Also, TM had to double-back a little in order to ask GZ why he was following him.
Click to expand...
Actually, we DO have his perpective, the phone call to DeeDee where he said that he was in the backyard. That would be #4 on the map.
forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=17707&d=1374100801

So TM was over a block away from Zimmerman and Zimmerman was not in the process of following him as he was almost one block north at the time of the call.

Yet TM returned to where GZ was. GZ never followed him, he simply recorded the address of where TM was seen and began heading back to his truck.
 
MaryT777 said:
He had no right to label him a suspect whatsoever.
Click to expand...
As the police officer testified at the trial testified to, the word suspect was used by the police when asking him questions about Martin, because neither the police nor Zimmerman knew his name. The police found no ID on him. She said it was basic SOP for them to refer to him as the suspect since they had no name to use.
 
Cider said:
Just because you have a CCW and carry your gun on your person, his was holstered on his waist band of his pants, does not mean that because you reported someone suspicious and monitored what they were doing that you are “going after them with a gun”. There is no evidence that Zimmerman was stalking Martin with his gun drawn.
Click to expand...
We don’t know if he drew his gun or not before the killing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top