Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

[lcburgundy]

Hmmmm, Perhaps if many of you had opened your minds and hearts for the young boy lying dead in a grave the way you have done for the person who pulled the trigger, you would be thinking differently concerning this tragedy. I just do not understand the kind of thinking that has been coming from this thread. peace Carlan

Not a single person has suggested that any loss of life is not tragic. But what was the proper amount of compassion GZ should have shown someone assaulting him against a sidewalk? Would it have been compassionate to allow himself to be knocked unconscious? To be murdered? If you don’t think either were a possible outcome, I would suggest you’re armchairing a split second self-defense decision that you have never faced, probably never will, and cannot claim the mantle of compassion on behalf of one party or another.

A 17-year-old who engages in violent assault would cannot legitimately be called a “young boy.”

 

[MarcoPolo]

For those interested, Catholic radio host Al Kresta discussed this Zimmerman story earlier this week. Here are MP3’s of each hour:

July 16 hour 1
July 16 hour 2

 

[qui_est_ce]

Oh Brother, Now Obama has weighed in.

Trayvon could have been me.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Not a single person has suggested that any loss of life is not tragic. But what was the proper amount of compassion GZ should have shown someone assaulting him against a sidewalk? Would it have been compassionate to allow himself to be knocked unconscious? To be murdered? If you don’t think either were a possible outcome, I would suggest you’re armchairing a** split second self-defense decision that you have never faced**, probably never will, and cannot claim the mantle of compassion on behalf of one party or another.

Myself having been held up at gunpoint can vouch for that. Your body goes into automatic mode. It’s really weird. I even ran after them asking if I could have my purse back. I was watching myself running and thinking what are you doing? And then all of a sudden you come out of it and you feel like a different person was there being held up.

 

[adrift]

Yes but there is a HUGE difference between taking in relevant evidence and drawing a reasonable conclusion and creating a scenario that has zero evidence and claiming this theory is just as valid.

The evidence, the law, and the decision are all in synch here. It is the fabricated and unsubstantiated claims of everything from racial profiling to gunslinging that have no credibility.

You might not be aware but the vast majority of cases ARE decided based on circumstantial evidence, connecting the dots and putting together a consistent and reasonable case. Those who demand videotape from six angles before accepting evidence will never see justice.

Lisa

As a general comment this is true. But BroomWagon has not done this. The gunslinging remark came from someone who is now suspended.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Oh Brother, Now Obama has weighed in.

Trayvon could have been me.

Yeah Obama’s a real piece of work.He has played a huge role in fomenting the ongoing racial divisiveness in this Country.Any crime perpetrated by a black man on another black or on anyone of a different race goes unnoticed by the press and Obama.It really is pretty despicable his behavior as the president to play the race card,yet not surprising.He couldn’t care less about lifting up the black populace it’s all political ,keeping them down by keeping them angry.

 

[MaryT777]

Oh Brother, Now Obama has weighed in.

Trayvon could have been me.

If only for once he could refrain from talking…

 

[meltzerboy]

Oh Brother, Now Obama has weighed in.

Trayvon could have been me.

Very likely for the purpose of keeping this thread open! At least Obama waited until after the trial and verdict.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Very likely for the purpose of keeping this thread open! At least Obama waited until after the trial and verdict.

Actually he stepped in pretty much right away with his opinion,remember,If he had a son he would look likecTrayvonApparently,playing off the same theme,now HE could have been Trayvone

 

[qui_est_ce]

Very likely for the purpose of keeping this thread open! At least Obama waited until after the trial and verdict.

True.

I do believe Obama could have been Trayvon, but Obama turned his life around. That’s what he should be talking about. He waited until he was married to have children. He stayed married. He because the first black President of the United States.

 

[SamH]

True.

I do believe Obama could have been Trayvon, but Obama turned his life around. That’s what he should be talking about. He waited until he was married to have children. He stayed married. He because the first black President of the United States.

Actually the 6th, but who’s counting?

 

[Jeanne_S]

True.

I do believe Obama could have been Trayvon, but Obama turned his life around. That’s what he should be talking about. He waited until he was married to have children. He stayed married. He because the first black President of the United States.

Turned his life around?Obama has led a life nothng at all like a lot of at risk black male youths.He’s been coddled and given a pass pretty much most of his life.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Actually the 6th, but who’s counting?

First :imsorry:“Out of the Closet.”

 

[qui_est_ce]

Turned his life around?Obama has led a life nothng at all like a lot of at risk black male youths.He’s been coddled and given a pass pretty much most of his life.

He was raised by a single mother, who was “burdened.” In today’s world he would have been aborted. He came from a broken home. He smoked pot and did drugs. He was going downhill fast.

A lot of young black males ought to use him for a role model.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Personally, as a woman I was offended at all the media stereotyping of the jury as if we can’t understand the facts. …

I was a bit surprised by the verdict. I feared the jury made up of only women and mostly moms might allow emotion, rather than facts and evidence, to sway the outcome. I say this as a woman and mom myself. I’m glad the jury came to the correct verdict based on the evidence, facts and the law.

…Especially the comments about how Martin’s mothers testimony was supposed to be so powerful and play on our poor little hearts. She had no evidence to testify to though. She wasn’t a witness even second hand. I’m sorry her son is dead, but she had no true evidence to testify to. …

I was completely baffled when I heard that she was going to testify because I couldn’t imagine what she could possibly say since she was not a witness to anything. I also wondered the same about Zimmerman’s mom. Of course, I then found out the reason they were put on the stand.

…To me the forensic evidence was most compelling and I didn’t think the case hung on who was screaming. I doubt she had ever heard her child scream in the that kind of situation before anyway, so as to make an accurate comparison. I hope none of ever do.

Even without the testimony of the moms, the witness statement and Zimmerman’s injuries support that it was Zimmerman screaming. Zimmerman said something like “I was screaming for help over and over and nobody would help” to the witness after the shooting but before the police arrived. He said that before he had any idea that the screaming had been recorded on the 911 tape. To me that, combined with his injuries, corroborates that it was Zimmerman screaming.

 

[Jeanne_S]

He was raised by a single mother, who was “burdened.” In today’s world he would have been aborted. He came from a broken home. He smoked pot and did drugs. He was going downhill fast.

A lot of young black males ought to use him for a role model.

That’s not entirely true.His mother handed him over to her parents,who in large part were responsible for his upbringing.O went to a private school in Hawaii,his grandfather sought out strong black male mentors as role models.Sure he smokes pot,was a real slacker in college,yet he got a paa on most of his behavior.His experience ,IMO,is nothing close to what the majority of black male youths experience.And,I might add their plight is part of the soft racism the liberal Dems and race baiters like our esteemed president,Sharpton,Jackson keep pushing.

 

[LisaA]

As a general comment this is true. But BroomWagon has not done this. The gunslinging remark came from someone who is now suspended.

Yes I know exactly to whom you refer and the multiple posts. However the point is that there is a determined group of posters who ignore the evidence, demean the jury, and claim that some bizarre scenario occurred that would comport with their preconceived notions. That notion was either that Zimmerman carrying a gun made him guilty or that Zimmerman was at fault for drawing Martin’s ire by reporting him.

Neither approach to this case has any evidence supporting it but instead of acknowledging that the case was so clear from the outset that the CoP didn’t want to charge him and only did so after intense public pressure, they insist on maintaining that the laws of gravity are repealed, Zimmerman bashed his own head in and broke his own nose to disguise the situation after calling the police for witnesses…

Further the theory that if you don’t think Zimmerman should be roasting on a spit somewhere you don’t “care” about a black teenager is similarly based on completely specious arguments.

BTW I heard that Gov Scott was the one who over rode the decision of the police chief and requested a Special Prosecutor. I suppose it was to prevent that appearance that he didn’t care about a dead black kid. But once again responding to the PC police instead of the real police has cost time, money and misery for many. Martin is no less dead than he was before and frankly the case and evidence revealed changed his public persona from an innocent teen with an ice tea and Skittles to a dope smoking, street fighting, thug. I think Elizabeth was right in saying someone should have sat down with the parties and explained the case and the law as well as the ramifications for EVERYONE of dragging out the process.

Lisa

 

[Nimzovik]

Yeah Obama’s a real piece of work.He has played a huge role in fomenting the ongoing racial divisiveness in this Country.Any crime perpetrated by a black man on another black or on anyone of a different race goes unnoticed by the press and Obama.It really is pretty despicable his behavior as the president to play the race card,yet not surprising.He couldn’t care less about lifting up the black populace it’s all political ,keeping them down by keeping them angry.

Indeed. I think many more are just now beginning to realize this.

Not only that, but it is interesting that if one even has a ‘tincture of being a Caucasian’ one is apparently guilty. This is evidenced by the fact that Zimmerman was of mixed racial decent as well - yes?

 

[LisaA]

I was a bit surprised by the verdict. I feared the jury made up of only women and mostly moms might allow emotion, rather than facts and evidence, to sway the outcome. I say this as a woman and mom myself. I’m glad the jury came to the correct verdict based on the evidence, facts and the law.

I was completely baffled when I heard that she was going to testify because I couldn’t imagine what she could possibly say since she was not a witness to anything. I also wondered the same about Zimmerman’s mom. Of course, I then found out the reason they were put on the stand.

Even without the testimony of the moms, the witness statement and Zimmerman’s injuries support that it was Zimmerman screaming. Zimmerman said something like “I was screaming for help over and over and nobody would help” to the witness after the shooting but before the police arrived. He said that before he had any idea that the screaming had been recorded on the 911 tape. To me that, combined with his injuries, corroborates that it was Zimmerman screaming.

The battle of the moms was an interesting maneuver by the Prosecution after their forensic voice witness (and the counter witness offered by the Defense) was gonged so to speak. He said that maybe a family member would recognize the screaming since there was not enough of a recording to test scientifically. Further it was interesting that when Martin’s father was first asked, he did not think the screaming came from his son.

As I recall Zimmerman also said a reason he screamed was to hopefully draw the police who were supposed to be on their way.

Lisa

 

[Ridgerunner]

Maybe someone has already said this. If so, ignore this post.

Now and then someone will try to organize a neighborhood watch organization here. Sometimes it happens, but mostly it doesn’t because crime where I live is pretty low, and neighbors pay a certain amount of attention to what’s going on in the neighborhood anyway.

But one wonders how many people are going to want to be involved in neighborhood watch groups now if it’s a mixed-race neighborhood or next to one. I sure wouldn’t, out of concern that I might somehow end up like Zimmerman; innocent but guilty anyway. Racist without being a racist. Turned into a “professional defendant” for years or perhaps forever. Wondering where I might move and not be recognized, wondering about changing my name, maybe gaining or losing a lot of weight, maybe growing a beard, never being able to use my education out of fear that presenting my schooling might get me killed, finding a place so thoroughly of my own race that I might actually find some anonymity and protection there.