Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

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What a dog and pony show. Hoodie is now a registered trademark of black America reduced to a caricature which includes Martin Luther King now.

Love Obama though, class act, he said he’s not answering questions, then he snickers, then said, he’s sending Jay who is enthused about answering questions.

If a white 17yo with a hoodie ran at your car with his hands in his pocket, you’d lock the door? Of course not why that’s safe.
 
Have mercy, the same old same old who hang out in the political threads celebrating their feelings about their President,you are quiet a club:eek:
 
Have mercy, the same old same old who hang out in the political threads celebrating their feelings about their President,you are quiet a club:eek:
You haven’t contributed much except ad hominem statements.
 
Here are photos from TM’s cell phone that the jury wasn’t allowed to see during the case:

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Sanford, Florida (CNN) – Trayvon Martin’s familiarity with guns, his marijuana use, and fights he may have been in cannot be brought up in George Zimmerman’s murder trial, the judge overseeing the case ruled Tuesday.
At the hearing two weeks before the scheduled start of the trial, Judge Debra Nelson handed a series of victories to the prosecution when she barred the defense from introducing some information about Martin.
 
As I said previously, this has NOT done Trayvon Martin’s memory any justice. Dragging his name through a very public trial when the evidence was flimsy has damaged this story as a catalyst for action. While I don’t think Zimmerman profiled Martin, those who see these pictures (and they are all over the internet along with other very unflattering images of Martin as thuggish and snarling) are going to “profile” Martin not as a sweet teen on his way home from the grocery store. Even the ice tea and Skittles have been demeaned as potential ingredients for a homemade energy drink (that much sugar would put me into a coma but that’s another story).

Really a mess isn’t it?

Lisa
 
Sorry but your ‘president’ is not… nice… using this for political gain… he has done nothing right since being in office. I never thought in my lifetime there’d be some one worse than carter.
What a dog and pony show. Hoodie is now a registered trademark of black America reduced to a caricature which includes Martin Luther King now.

Love Obama though, class act, he said he’s not answering questions, then he snickers, then said, he’s sending Jay who is enthused about answering questions.

If a white 17yo with a hoodie ran at your car with his hands in his pocket, you’d lock the door? Of course not why that’s safe.
 
Sorry but your ‘president’ is not… nice… using this for political gain… he has done nothing right since being in office. I never thought in my lifetime there’d be some one worse than carter.
Obama did one thing right, and that was to approve of the mission to get Osama bin Laden. But that opportunity was handed to him on a silver platter, and it was the intelligence procedures that were developed and standardized during Bush that Obama inherited that lead to the finding of bin Laden. Like Obama says, “you didn’t build that”. So he should share the credit with Bush.
 
I think Obama’s abysmal record as president is reflective of his life in general.He has been coddled ,protected by the press and the Dems for his entire presidency.The pushed him forward as a candidate,knowing full well he was wholly inadequate for the job.Again,all this for what Obama represents.Sadly,the first black president has done little to nothing to improve race relations,in fact he’s inflamed the racial issues in this country.Today’s speech really drove this point home .
 
I think Obama’s abysmal record as president is reflective of his life in general.He has been coddled ,protected by the press and the Dems for his entire presidency.The pushed him forward as a candidate,knowing full well he was wholly inadequate for the job.Again,all this for what Obama represents.Sadly,the first black president has done little to nothing to improve race relations,in fact he’s inflamed the racial issues in this country.Today’s speech really drove this point home .
Have there been polls done which show Obama’s speech has actually inflamed race relations in the country? Or have the same people who already don’t like Obama, his policies, and those of his Party–some of whom are on this Forum–also expressed their dislike of his speech?
 
Written by Colorado educator Bob Seay:

I am not Trayvon Martin.

I keep seeing people say, “I am Trayvon Martin.” I understand the sentiment. If that is you, then I respect that.

I am not Trayvon Martin. I am a middle-aged, middle class, overweight white guy. I am also a teacher, and in 20 years of teaching, I have seen plenty of Trayvon Martins. More accurately, I have seen plenty of young men who fit the caricatured image that is being portrayed of this kid in the media, Left and Right. Fox News and MSNBC. I’m guessing that neither portrayal - saint or thug - is accurate. People are more complex than that.

None of the Trayvon Martins that I know deserve to die. They may arouse suspicion, but your paranoia is not their crime. If they do commit a crime, they deserve to have a trial. Trayvon Martin’s jury consisted of one person. That is not how we are supposed to do things in America. Unfortunately, that is our reality.

Here’s my point: You don’t have to be Trayvon Martin to know this is wrong. You don’t have to be black, or young, or a “troubled student” or a pot smoker to know this was murder. And you don’t have to be the parent of Trayvon Martin to know this was a gross miscarriage of justice.

Let me be more blunt: This type of injustice will continue until enough guys like me - guys who are not Trayvon Martin - have had enough of it and finally say “No more.”

You don’t have to be Trayvon Martin.
You just have to be human.
Peace, Carlan
 
The injustice is that ppl think you have the right to pund someones head into the cement w/o any consequences… i mean really… to you libs and anti gun ppl… this would be comical if it weren’t so serious. More law abidding ppl need to be armed… and maybe this wouldn’t happen. 🤷
Written by Colorado educator Bob Seay:

I am not Trayvon Martin.

I keep seeing people say, “I am Trayvon Martin.” I understand the sentiment. If that is you, then I respect that.

I am not Trayvon Martin. I am a middle-aged, middle class, overweight white guy. I am also a teacher, and in 20 years of teaching, I have seen plenty of Trayvon Martins. More accurately, I have seen plenty of young men who fit the caricatured image that is being portrayed of this kid in the media, Left and Right. Fox News and MSNBC. I’m guessing that neither portrayal - saint or thug - is accurate. People are more complex than that.

None of the Trayvon Martins that I know deserve to die. They may arouse suspicion, but your paranoia is not their crime. If they do commit a crime, they deserve to have a trial. Trayvon Martin’s jury consisted of one person. That is not how we are supposed to do things in America. Unfortunately, that is our reality.

Here’s my point: You don’t have to be Trayvon Martin to know this is wrong. You don’t have to be black, or young, or a “troubled student” or a pot smoker to know this was murder. And you don’t have to be the parent of Trayvon Martin to know this was a gross miscarriage of justice.

Let me be more blunt: This type of injustice will continue until enough guys like me - guys who are not Trayvon Martin - have had enough of it and finally say “No more.”

You don’t have to be Trayvon Martin.
You just have to be human.
Peace, Carlan
 
The injustice is that ppl think you have the right to pund someones head into the cement w/o any consequences… i mean really… to you libs and anti gun ppl… this would be comical if it weren’t so serious. More law abidding ppl need to be armed… and maybe this wouldn’t happen. 🤷
I am not a lib or anti gun. I’m a conservative Republican Catholic who just doesn’t think this case was a ‘slam dunk.’
 
Have there been polls done which show Obama’s speech has actually inflamed race relations in the country? Or have the same people who already don’t like Obama, his policies, and those of his Party–some of whom are on this Forum–also expressed their dislike for his speech?
Poll?How about observing the reactions of the black community over this tragedy. Obama coming out before and after,with his" I can relate theme of TM looking like the son he never had to now TM actually could have been Obama".:eek::eek:Instead of staying above the fray,he has chosen to jump right in.Now,certainly you don’t think his behavior has actually helped to quell the increasing anger among the black community do you? Lest You forgot,Obama was a community organizer,his specialty is stirring the pot,working up the masses.He’s at it again,only now using his bully pulpit as president to really make an impact.It’s disgusting,no genuine concern on his part,otherwise he would address the countless black on black crimes occurring almost daily around the country.No,he prefers to cherry pick the issues he’s concerned about!
 
The injustice is that ppl think you have the right to pund someones head into the cement w/o any consequences… i mean really… to you libs and anti gun ppl… this would be comical if it weren’t so serious. More law abidding ppl need to be armed… and maybe this wouldn’t happen. 🤷
I wonder if Bob Seay found himself in a situation where his head was being bashed into the concrete, he would just lie there and not fight back because of his white guilt?

I wonder when self-proclaimed “middle-aged, middle class, overweight white guy(s)” like Bob Seay are going to look at the out of control black on black violence in places like Chicago and say “no more”. Why are the lives of people like Trayvon less valuable to white liberals when they are a victim of black on black crime?
 
I wonder if Bob Seay found himself in a situation where his head was being bashed into the concrete, he would just lie there and not fight back because of his white guilt?

I wonder when self-proclaimed “middle-aged, middle class, overweight white guy(s)” like Bob Seay are going to look at the out of control black on black violence in places like Chicago and say “no more”. Why are the lives of people like Trayvon less valuable to white liberals when they are a victim of black on black crime?
In Chicago, a lot of the violence is a drug war involving the Mexican Cartels. The city of Chicago also made one of the drug kingpins, Chapo Guzman, the 1st public enemy of the city since Al Capone.
“Let’s take the gloves off on that,” he (Riley, DEA agent) said. “We know that the majority of the drugs here in Chicago, cartels are responsible for. We know that the majority of the murders are gang related. So it is very clear to see the connection and the role.”
As it stands now, at least three major Mexican cartels are battling over control of billions of dollars of marijuana, cocaine and – increasingly – heroin in this city. That includes the ultra-violent Zetas and the powerful Sinaloa cartel, run by its shadowy leader Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman.
If the CBS story is true and Cartels are a big part of the violence there, I’d really hope the Feds could crack down on them.
 
Gangs like the Latin Kings in Chicago (and MS13 in Los Angeles and areas of NJ) are active and should be cracked down on. But that does not change this:

articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-07-12/news/ct-met-chicago-homicide-demographics-20120712_1_homicide-victims-homicide-numbers-police-data

"The pattern is a familiar one in Chicago, where most violent crime happens in impoverished, mostly black neighborhoods on the South and West sides. Annual Chicago police statistics show a majority of both homicide victims and offenders are young black men with criminal records. "
 
Gangs like the Latin Kings in Chicago (and MS13 in Los Angeles and areas of NJ) are active and should be cracked down on. But that does not change this:

articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-07-12/news/ct-met-chicago-homicide-demographics-20120712_1_homicide-victims-homicide-numbers-police-data

"The pattern is a familiar one in Chicago, where most violent crime happens in impoverished, mostly black neighborhoods on the South and West sides. Annual Chicago police statistics show a majority of both homicide victims and offenders are young black men with criminal records. "
Also, I don’t know if I inferred it but Blacks as well as Hispanics and in fact, Whites could be “enlisted” to fight for the Cartels, thus, I hope I said the Cartels and indeed Mexican Cartels at that, are responsible for a lot of the violence vs. saying Hispanics or Mexicans and the Mexican Cartels can employ anyone. And that’s a sad shame.

There are websites that list all the victims and how they died in Chicago. I looked at it one night, that is pretty bad. You see the individuals instead of just seeing the numbers on the news.​

This is off topic but interesting, victims of Chicago violence, cbsnews.com/2300-201_162-10016847.html

Victims of Heroin Overdoses in Chicago area: cbsnews.com/2300-201_162-10016845.html

cbsnews.com/2718-201_162-2155/the-war-in-chicago/
War in Chicago CBS site.
 
Written by Colorado educator Bob Seay:

I am not Trayvon Martin.

I keep seeing people say, “I am Trayvon Martin.” I understand the sentiment. If that is you, then I respect that.

I am not Trayvon Martin. I am a middle-aged, middle class, overweight white guy. I am also a teacher, and in 20 years of teaching, I have seen plenty of Trayvon Martins. More accurately, I have seen plenty of young men who fit the caricatured image that is being portrayed of this kid in the media, Left and Right. Fox News and MSNBC. I’m guessing that neither portrayal - saint or thug - is accurate. People are more complex than that.

None of the Trayvon Martins that I know deserve to die. They may arouse suspicion, but your paranoia is not their crime. If they do commit a crime, they deserve to have a trial. Trayvon Martin’s jury consisted of one person. That is not how we are supposed to do things in America. Unfortunately, that is our reality.

Here’s my point: You don’t have to be Trayvon Martin to know this is wrong. You don’t have to be black, or young, or a “troubled student” or a pot smoker to know this was murder. And you don’t have to be the parent of Trayvon Martin to know this was a gross miscarriage of justice.

Let me be more blunt: This type of injustice will continue until enough guys like me - guys who are not Trayvon Martin - have had enough of it and finally say “No more.”

You don’t have to be Trayvon Martin.
You just have to be human.
Peace, Carlan
I, for one, am not saying that Mr. Martin “deserved” to die.

It appears, however, that Mr. Martin ws on top of Mr. Zimmerman, and Mr. Zimmerman came out with wound marks on his head. That certainly lends credence to the evidence that Zimmerman reasonably feared either imminent serious and or life threatening bodily harm.

We can argue all day and night about whether Mr. Zimmerman should have stayed in his car (he should have). Coupled with that, however, is the question of whether or not Mr. Zimmerman was retreating. There was absolutely no evidence one way or the other so we will never know; and if Mr. Zimmerman should say he was retreating and was attacked (making Mr. Martin the aggressor), I doubt you would believe him.

I have yet to see the statistics personally; however, it has been said that about 15% of Florida’s population is African American, and that about 30% of the “stand your ground” cases are with them defending themselves. Whether or not that is true I have yet to determine, but it is enough to give one pause.

Yes, it would be nice, had Mr. Zimmerman not shot Mr. Martin, that it could have come to trial as to what from the evidence seems to indicate that Mr. Martin was the aggressor in a fight; however, Mr. Zimmerman might not have lived to get to that trial, or might have been brain damaged to the point of not being able to testify.

According to statements prior to the trial, Mr. Zimmerman lived in a gated community; there had been burglaries in the community (which is why, apparently they had patrols) and the police had not been able to stop the burglaries or catch those doing them. So the incidient seems to have started over a trespass by Mr. Martin.

That is not grounds for shooting him.

The issue seems to have escalated after Mr. Zimmerman exited his car, and it appears that Mr. Martin attacked Mr. Zimmerman, at some point overpowering him on the ground and causing multiple injuries to Mr. Zimmerman’s head. I don’t recall any evidence that the gun came out until Mr. Zimmerman was on the ground, below Mr. Martin.

The jury found that within the law, the shooting was justified; the jury heard the evidence ( we didn’t). It should never have happened, and like all too many instances, this was another case of a series of events leading to a shooting. It isn’t a case of Mr. Zimmerman hunting Mr. Martin down and shooting him because Mr. Martin was trespassing; from the evidence he shot Mr. Martin because Mr. Martin was an aggressor at that moment doing bodily harm to Mr. Zimmerman.
 
Are you inferring that the high crime rate will be magically eliminated by allowing gunslinging vigilantes the right to carry concealed weapons? The crime rate will only escalate, with innocent people like TM being shoot dead. Calling the TM case self defense is a misnomer. It’s manslaughter.
Terribly, terribly misinformed about concealed carry laws and high crime rates.

Look up homicide statistics over the last ten years in the USA. They are actually declining! Yes, they are going down!

Look for yourself on the FBI website:

fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

Much of that decrease is attributable to concealed carry laws in a number of states. People who qualify for those permits are thoroughly scrutinized by law enforcement before they ever get a permit. ** IN GENERAL, THEY ARE NOT THE GUN VIOLENCE PROBLEM.** They are actually a deterrent to crime. Criminals in concealed carry states are a bit “edgier” about victimizing strangers.

Why do you think everyone with a concealed carry permit is a “gunslinging vigilante?” How absurd. Be careful. It might be an attractive, young mother of two out for her afternoon jog. You never know what she might have in her fanny-pack. But, it probably isn’t a snake that’s going to jump out and bite you as you pass her by.🙂

Wanna-be tyrants, eager to deprive the citizenry of their basic human right to self-defense, and their wholly owned propagandists in the media are selling you a pack of lies. They are telling you gun violence is increasing, when they know better. They want the public to perceive that gun violence is increasing, when it is not! They sensationalize every gun incident and try to terrorize the public into the concept that it would be somehow safer and more virtuous for everyone to be utterly defenseless. Of course, your government will provide for all of your protection…yeah, RIGHT!

Ever try calling the police in an apparent emergency? I did about two years ago and the 911 line was on automated “hold” with a recording for over twenty minutes! **THIS IS TRUE! **A lot of bad things can happen to you or your family in twenty minutes.

Gun violence is deplorable. All violence is deplorable. But violence is a reality of the world we Christians are passing through. Civilization cannot eradicate violence in the world…it can only attempt to deal with it in rational ways. Those ways will not be perfect. There will always be isolated extreme events and system failures.

One aspect of dealing with violence rationally lies with the judges and courts. Unfortunately, the courts today are pretty soft on criminality. For all their weakness, the courts and judges seem immune from public condemnation, by the same propagandists that condemn gun ownership by law-abiding citizens.

For example, I live in a large western American city where a burglar caught in the act in the morning, will be released by the court, to the streets again by afternoon (even before the arresting police officer gets off duty). The city has over 300 burglaries per month. That kind of ineffective dealing with serious criminals emboldens them, and virtually guarantees repeat, and probably more violent future crimes. Where does that burglar take his budding criminal career next? Assault? Armed robbery? Rape? Home invasion? Murder?

Every incident has the potential to become more violent than the last.

I sometimes wonder if our judges are not encouraged to quickly release criminals to the streets? Why? Because ***some people ***actually want to INCREASE social chaos! It’s a necessary prelude to the destruction of a free America and the creation of a new, totalitarian State.
 
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